Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK... So originally I went straight for the fang with the Large blast option.... But I'm thinking the wolf with Lascannons as standard, Twin Linked hellfrost and the assault vehicle rule make it a much better flier overall. All that for a few points less too. Do people agree? What do people prefer.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK... So originally I went straight for the fang with the Large blast option.... But I'm thinking the wolf with Lascannons as standard, Twin Linked hellfrost and the assault vehicle rule make it a much better flier overall. All that for a few points less too. Do people agree? What do people prefer.

What are you planning on using for? If its a gunship might as well stay with the fang. I guess you could go wolf if cheap AA is desired, but it can function as a transport as well.

Originally it was just as a gun ship in my first list. But I felt I wasn't making the most of it. And I had 10 footslogging grey hunters. So now. I think I'll get more for my money with the option to transport them, plus using it as AA

You can fill a Stormwolf with BC for really cheap and so far it seems like the Large Blast/Lance is not quite as good as the free TLL and the TL Destructor.

Stormwolf all the way.
You've highlighted the reasons why it's superior to the Stormfang, but remember that as a dedicated transport it'll also pick up ObSec, which is nice.
I think the TL Helfrost is much more reliable than the Helfrost Destructor, especially at single shot targets like MCs. It's also a turret, so 360 degree firing capability is awesome.

I can see a Stormfang if you have no other AAA or Anti Armor within your list.

It all boils down to weather you want to use it as a transport or a pure gunship. If shooting is all you are doing and you have the spare Heavy Support slots, go with the 'fang. If you wan to move a unit, go with the 'wolf and abuse dedicated transport options to get it without spending a slot.

I think its use will change depending on who I'm facing and the mission. And I think the wolf is more versatile. I'd argue it's a slightly better gunship too. Due to twin link and turret mounted. I'm contemplating filling it with 10 Grey hunters with CCW's, 2 plasma guns and a rune priest....

We've been playing around with both this week (I've been on the receiving end most of the time, but we did play a 2v2 where we had an allied stormfang). Thoughts:

-The stormwolf really excels as a Bloodclaw carrier - being able to deliver 16 of them to any spot on the board by turn 3 is nice. And they're not a huge investment points-wise, so it's not a game ender if your stormwolf gets shot down and they all die a fiery death in the crash.
- Having a 360 degree turret is a big deal for the stormwolf. Also: twinlinked (the Storfang's Helfrost destructor is NOT). The small blast is not very threatening, but it does force your opponent to space out his stuff. We had more luck using it's focused mode, which synergizes well with the twinlinked multi-meltas. Doesn't have the Lance rule, though, so it's pretty bad against AV13/14 - better to just use POTMS to take pot-shots at another target.

On the gunship side:
- The stormfang can carry 3 Wolf Guard Terminators, so it's not totally useless as a transport. Those dudes can wreck gak...
- ...but later we found out that it's NOT an assault transport, so it's actually pretty crap at transporting assault-oriented terminators. What the hell?
- The Helfrost Destructor is very powerful, but it suffers from not being twinlinked, and not being turret mounted. In particular, it's almost always pointed in the same direction as your multi-meltas... it would be WAY useful if you could focus your multimeltas and lascannon forward (to kill a vehicle), while using POTMS to shoot a pieplate at a marine squad off to the side. Not being able to do that is... disappointing.
- That said, the Helfrost Destructor has the Lance rule and is AP1 when focused, so it should absolutely annihilates vehicles (and it synergizes quite nicely with the MM in that sense).
- It comes with stormstrike missiles by default instead of the lascannon, and I can see how those might be a better choice for an alpha strike. When you first fly in, you can unload both your missles, your two Multimeltas, and then POTMS your helfrost cannon. Against an AV14 vehicle, this causes on average 1.5 penetrating hits at AP1, and 2.1 HP worth of glancing hits.

One thing we want to try: keeping the default Heavy Bolter loadout on the Stormfang, and using it as a dedicated infantry killer. In this configuration, you could hit an infantry blob with a S6 large blast, and follow it up with 6 twin linked heavy bolter shots. You can then use POTMS to shoot at something else with your lascannon. Not sure how well this would work out in practice, but... food for thought.

They both have a lot of firepower compared to the Stormraven - forget the Helfrost cannons, having two twin linked multimeltas on flyer is powerful.

Either is pretty viable and I'm sorry but I don't care what people say about how it looks, those stats are awesome outclassing the stormraven really easily and giving SW a way to dominate the skies. The big cannon is impressive with the Fang and the pure destructive power will probably have your opponent focus fire with Anti-air or make them wish they had anti-air but the 16 troop capacity with still having a TL Helfrost with all the same options that a Fang has too, makes the Wolf really attractive as well.

It depends on your strategy really. Drop pods are still really useful but I see them more for Grey Hunters and as people have pointed out, the Wolf to me excels at delivering Bloodclaws to where you need them.

That flyer, both options, almost makes me want to go SW, not that I would drop my GK but take an allied contingent of them.

So basically you're all saying that neither is a bad choice. I think I'm going to go wolf. That twin linked turret just seems so much more useful. And with lascannons as standard and only paying for multimeltas makes it cheaper too.

I also want to use it as a transport... Though I fear they may be outrage when I say not for blood claws. I want to throw ten grey hunters in it with close combat weapons, plasmas and a banner. That's 40 attacks on the charge at WS4. They should best face. Blood claws aren't that much cheaper. I'd get more bodies sure, but I'd lose the second special and have worse shooting and combat stats. I may even throw a rune priest in with them for good measure....

I'd go Wolf Priest + Blood Claws before Rune Priest + Grey Hunters coming out of a Stormwolf.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd go Wolf Priest + Blood Claws before Rune Priest + Grey Hunters coming out of a Stormwolf.

Really? Grey hunters and a rune priest is a lot more adaptable and flexible than a wolf priest and blood claws... They're only good for one thing.

You do get a second special weapon if you take 15 blood claws, and you can still fit the character inthere too.

Wolf priest is very nice now, since you get both 6+ feel no pain as well as preferred enemy against one type of unit. The rune priest is good if you want to save points, but its unreliable.

The rune priest is mainly for force axe goodness against monstrous creatures.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd go Wolf Priest + Blood Claws before Rune Priest + Grey Hunters coming out of a Stormwolf.

Really? Grey hunters and a rune priest is a lot more adaptable and flexible than a wolf priest and blood claws... They're only good for one thing.

Let me rephrase - for assaulting, I'd go wolf priest and blood claws. I don't like clouding the roles of my units. Giving grey hunters CCW is the farthest I'd go to pad their assault capabilities, and sometimes not even that since they already pack counter attack. Every point given unto their CC potential is a point not put into TWC to do it better or plasma guns for the hunters.

Here's a link to my army list. Let me know what you think....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/610168.page#7114282


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm trying to remain quite TAC. And I know more bodies is more competitive, but I like upgrades. And I think taking none sometimes spoils the fun of the game. Too many competitive players don't seem to know the word fun any more.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a link to my army list. Let me know what you think....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/610168.page#7114282


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm trying to remain quite TAC. And I know more bodies is more competitive, but I like upgrades. And I think taking none sometimes spoils the fun of the game. Too many competitive players don't seem to know the word fun any more.

I don't want to say that TAC is dead but to me it is significantly harder in 7th and it is really hard to do it with just one codex. At least in my experience which is why I have allies and side board lists which kind of sucks because this is great for casual games but usually you can only have one list for a tournament.

Well, I'm trying to make it as TAC as I can. I contemplated taking wolves as allies. And throwing some grav cents in a pod.... But I don't like that idea.

I prefer the stormfang. I would rather take drop pods to transport stuff. Blood claws do better in a land raider so they can get into combat sooner. Waiting one extra turn for your fire support if you get a bad reserve roll doesn't hurt as much as waiting extra turns for your troops to come in.

Toofast wrote:
I prefer the stormfang. I would rather take drop pods to transport stuff. Blood claws do better in a land raider so they can get into combat sooner. Waiting one extra turn for your fire support if you get a bad reserve roll doesn't hurt as much as waiting extra turns for your troops to come in.

But if you take a wolves unleashed detachment then you won't have to worry about bad reserve rolls at all, and you can outflank it....

My trouble with the stormfang is that it has a transport capacity so I was like oh hell yeah, I will put some combi-guards or something in there which can jump out and finish what the flyer wrecked (or just grab objectives) but then no one can take it as a dedicated transport and I was "WTF?"

Stormwolf is totally dominating the stormfang, however there is a good tutorial on youtube on how to magnetise it to be both, thats what Im gonna try anyways

SlyasR wrote:
My trouble with the stormfang is that it has a transport capacity so I was like oh hell yeah, I will put some combi-guards or something in there which can jump out and finish what the flyer wrecked (or just grab objectives) but then no one can take it as a dedicated transport and I was "WTF?"

Stormwolf is totally dominating the stormfang, however there is a good tutorial on youtube on how to magnetise it to be both, thats what Im gonna try anyways

Yeah, i think it is dominating too. It's more versatile, and I even think it's a better gunship.

How survivable is it in hovermode, which I guess it has to be in to drop the BC's or what ypu put in there...

Grimm_81 wrote:
How survivable is it in hovermode, which I guess it has to be in to drop the BC's or what ypu put in there...

Ceramite plating and 12/12/12 makes it pretty survivable. But The way I see it, once you delivered you BCs its a bonus if it survives

15 BC + Lucas in a stormwolf will cost some but then you get a flyer that automatically arrives turn 2, you get 16 bodies and its pretty much a "point and kill"-unit that will take care of tough guys. remember that for every 5 men watching the challenge you can reroll a to hit roll


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think thats why GW made Lucas an IC, something I didnt understood at first

SlyasR wrote:

Grimm_81 wrote:
remember that for every 5 men watching the challenge you can reroll a to hit roll


Pretty sure thats not a thing anymore.

Yeah, I think it's gone too. Not got my rulebook though so I'll have to check. I've filled mine with 10 Grey hunters, 10 close combat weapons, and a banner for a total of 40 attacks on the charge. I also have two plasma guns in their, but I'm sensing they're wasted points since they can't shoot and charge. So I'm probably going to swap them out for Melta guns. Or plasma pistols. I think the unit of 15 BC is just too pricey. But then I still don't have my book, so I couldn't price it up....

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Toofast wrote:
I prefer the stormfang. I would rather take drop pods to transport stuff. Blood claws do better in a land raider so they can get into combat sooner. Waiting one extra turn for your fire support if you get a bad reserve roll doesn't hurt as much as waiting extra turns for your troops to come in.

But if you take a wolves unleashed detachment then you won't have to worry about bad reserve rolls at all, and you can outflank it....

If the flyer gets a crew stunned result, that could be a problem too - you might miss the target or go right off the board, and even then you're losing at least 1 more turn to try to assault.

I'm looking at the 2 options and I'm actually leaning towards the gunship, partly because I hate flying transports, especially without a grav chute insertion option. A straight-up gunship looks far more attractive to me.

Ok it might be gone, I just assumed it was still in

BC-load out is 20 points more for 20 attacks more (though WS3) (not including IC and wargear). And you get Lucas which is going to crush. 15 bodies survive more than 10 also so if you manage to wipe them of the table and stand one round getting shoot.

I'd take the gunship option. Using it as a transport for a large unit means that you lose a lot of points if you roll badly for reserves.