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Noir wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

so first week of sales is all telling in a new edition where before release all i saw was the wait and see approach, then people jumping on board... yeah that week tells me everything.

As the first couple weeks makes up most of their BRB sells, it is very telling.

when so many players are saying ill wait and see... nah it wasnt going to be a big first week seller. weeks 2-6 would be when it really started selling esp with the pace of other sales around it. its not like when 6th came out and there was a few months of nothing before hand.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

Noir wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

so first week of sales is all telling in a new edition where before release all i saw was the wait and see approach, then people jumping on board... yeah that week tells me everything.

As the first couple weeks makes up most of their BRB sells, it is very telling.

when so many players are saying ill wait and see... nah it wasnt going to be a big first week seller. weeks 2-6 would be when it really started selling esp with the pace of other sales around it. its not like when 6th came out and there was a few months of nothing before hand.

The players/posters on the internet are a tiny amount vocal but tiny and the same thing was said of 5th and 6th. It is the ones not posting online, GW was planing for, they didn't happen. Unlike 5th and 6th were the first week sold great, then sells drop off. They didn't get those sell and likely never will, even if all the wait and see posters went and pick it up now it would only be a blip on the overall sells.

Plus, while not condoning it, the digital day-one releases of GW product have a way to finding themselves quite prevalent and in ease of access, so to speak. Where others would have to wait for "scans", and given the sharp rise of readily called "bull gak DLC" releases, a lot of players were already turning towards ill gotten gains.

Again, not condoning it, but it's a fact of the matter spring boarding off what Noir said. A lot of folks have tablets and smart phones now and if they didn't buy it day one and then see that digital edition readily available... ... if it speaks to anything to how fast this happens, you can find the entirety of the Grey Knights codex online, right now, prior to release.

 TheKbob wrote:
Yep, except he missed a massive thing: not only did the cut costs to the bone, since we can see their overhead has not changed from the 2013 to 2014 costs, but they've LOST REVENUE. That's the big thing, crap isn't selling.

The thing is, you're acting like you're giving us a revelation when, if you read that thread I linked (still waiting for you to post there if you think you're right), it's all been broken down by several different individuals who have their own accreditation in business. All outcomes point to "not doing so hot."

There are several rendition of you've said without the ambling "me-me-me" stuff that all get to the core of the matter; bad releases, higher costs, lower sales and all resulting in an extreme drop of profits. Wait until the December report, it'll be even worse. You cannot point to all these "well, I did this and this, it's just this..." Games Workshop released a record amount of content to include an update to Space Marines, their largest selling brand, and released a new ruleset for 7E Warhammer 40k in this last half year. You don't have to be an economic major to see that when someone drops that much "big product" you should see a large revenue increase. We did not.

None of the business sense points towards things being peachy. The posted zero dividend at half year and end of year. Zero. They paid one dividend out of surplus cash, that's it. Better put, their operating expenses are nearly flat year over year while operating profit is down 42%. Are you telling me that's not significant? And I've never mentioned or brought up stock price once, for the record, as it does little to reflect that actual value of the company.

No ones giving you a revelation and I already explained the drop in revenue.

 Jancoran wrote:


No ones giving you a revelation and I already explained the drop in revenue.

Games Workshop has done zero investing inward outside of cutting off HQs, paying off severances, and taking large stores down to single man operations. Total change of stores, year over year, is two. Just two. Of which, I have some inside baseball and know a great swath are hurting in sales; hurting in sales means smaller bonuses for the managers meaning loss of income. Basically a "No Bueno" feedback loop that's assured to see their best burn out or quit.

They should not see a drop of revenue with this large splash of releases. And if you read the other posts, they've gone on record stating the majority of release sales are front loaded... most releases, front loaded sales, less sales overall... the math seems to point away from what you've explained or takes some death-defying leaps of logic to get there. Occam's Razor; GW has been rushing out releases, the prices along with poorer quality products which result in a measurable drop of product value. This has come to fruition of a cascading sell off/bail out of players readily lubricated by a recent explosion of competition in the form of many fast growing gaming startups that are rivaling product quality at a much higher value. The simplest solution is usually the most correct and GW is fast on their way to the next TSR.

Also, reference:



So they site zero of the reasons you've stated and point to a "disappointing year". I've already covered what reorganization is (down sizing and severance), and the disappointing year is the exact same year of record releases. They also spent less on capital improvements, year over year, further pointing away from your explanation.

I'll ask again, have you read the the annual report thoroughly?

 TheKbob wrote:


None of the business sense points towards things being peachy. The posted zero dividend at half year and end of year. Zero. They paid one dividend out of surplus cash, that's it. Better put, their operating expenses are nearly flat year over year while operating profit is down 42%. Are you telling me that's not significant? And I've never mentioned or brought up stock price once, for the record, as it does little to reflect that actual value of the company.

Im telling you it's irrelevant for reasons I explained to you. I used myself as an example because I am most FAMILIAR with my business. Dont be a jerk and call me one. Thats just hypocricy.

Also I can give you a list of every dividend they are generally quarterly. I already told you when the last one was. It wasn't that long ago man. So. whatever. You dont want to ACKNOWLEDGE the June 6th Dividend that JUST happened, well...uh... well... Okay.

 Jancoran wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:


None of the business sense points towards things being peachy. The posted zero dividend at half year and end of year. Zero. They paid one dividend out of surplus cash, that's it. Better put, their operating expenses are nearly flat year over year while operating profit is down 42%. Are you telling me that's not significant? And I've never mentioned or brought up stock price once, for the record, as it does little to reflect that actual value of the company.

Im telling you it's irrelevant for reasons I explained to you. I used myself as an example because I am most FAMILIAR with my business. Dont be a jerk and call me one. Thats just hypocricy.

Also I can give you a list of every dividend they are generally quarterly. I already told you when the last one was. It wasn't that long ago man. So. whatever. You dont want to ACKNOWLEDGE the June 6th Dividend that JUST happened, well...uh... well... Okay.

And I'm telling you that it was surplus cash, as stated, not related to year end income; it was released from war funds instead of pulling it from their growth. The "ex-growth" as they've stated, or shrinkage they've experienced.

Agaim, your logic isn't jiving with any of the data points. The exact ones I'm pulling from the financial report, end of year, AFTER the dividend was issued. They released said dividend, most likely, to cushion the shock of a bad year of year financial report realizing it's probably better to stay stable with a placation effort and use cash on hand versus releasing zero dividend for the entire year. But this has already been discussed, each salient point, at length. You're not giving out anything new that's already been torn apart by folks far more intelligent in finance than myself. I'm drawing conclusions from the annual report, which outside of the most hilarious wording in a report that I've ever read, isn't selling you on anything but hopes and wishes.

 Jancoran wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:


None of the business sense points towards things being peachy. The posted zero dividend at half year and end of year. Zero. They paid one dividend out of surplus cash, that's it. Better put, their operating expenses are nearly flat year over year while operating profit is down 42%. Are you telling me that's not significant? And I've never mentioned or brought up stock price once, for the record, as it does little to reflect that actual value of the company.

Im telling you it's irrelevant for reasons I explained to you. I used myself as an example because I am most FAMILIAR with my business. Dont be a jerk and call me one. Thats just hypocricy.

Also I can give you a list of every dividend they are generally quarterly. I already told you when the last one was. It wasn't that long ago man. So. whatever. You dont want to ACKNOWLEDGE the June 6th Dividend that JUST happened, well...uh... well... Okay.

Yes he did you just ignored it becouse it backs up him not you.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


No ones giving you a revelation and I already explained the drop in revenue.

Games Workshop has done zero investing inward outside of cutting off HQs, paying off severances, and taking large stores down to single man operations. Total change of stores, year over year, is two. Just two. Of which, I have some inside baseball and know a great swath are hurting in sales; hurting in sales means smaller bonuses for the managers meaning loss of income. Basically a "No Bueno" feedback loop that's assured to see their best burn out or quit.

They should not see a drop of revenue with this large splash of releases. And if you read the other posts, they've gone on record stating the majority of release sales are front loaded... most releases, front loaded sales, less sales overall... the math seems to point away from what you've explained or takes some death-defying leaps of logic to get there. Occam's Razor; GW has been rushing out releases, the quality has dropped, the prices have risen resulting in a measurable drop of product value resulting in a cascading sell off/bail out of players readily lubricated by a recent explosion of competition in the form of many fast growing gaming startups that are rivaling product quality at a much higher value. The simplest solution is usually the most correct and GW is fast on their way to the next TSR.

Also, reference:

Spoiler:

Trade
Sales fell by 9% in the year, partially due to the continental european reorganisation and a disappointing year in North America.

So they site zero of the reasons you've stated and point to a "disappointing year". I've already covered what reorganization is (down sizing and severance), and the disappointing year is the exact same year of record releases.

Umm... dude. I literally giggled when I read this.

Im sorry what was that about them changing from fine cast back to plastics on some models (eventually all)? Oh.

IM sorry did you just say developing 7E was free? Oh.

Did you just tell me that developing the new models for a record setting release pace was free? Oh.

Did you just say developing the Codex's was free? Oh...

Are you saying that closing those stores didn't cost them money to get out of the leases? Oh. Oh good.

Did you just say that they didnt work on their online portal extensively, pretty much fom the ground up? Oh. Oh they did?

So...maybe... maybe they actually DID invest? Yeah. I think they've been at it.

You have an axe to GRIND and thats fine.

By the way who GIVES a crap about the managers BONUS and minimum wage retail employeees morale? Lol. You think that matters to GW? There's a hundred young whipper snappers whod love that job until they build their resume. You think that was a CAREER opportunity or something? You think those stores are a big part of their future? HELL no. Those employees are as loyal to GW as you are. They have game stores wiling to take ALL the overhead. Once they finish that phase, they will wisely get their distribution BS figured out. Believe it. Competing with local game shops that have 50 lines they don't have is just dumb. Ever see a local toy store owner that was rich? No you haven't and the few that make a decent living work their asses off as a labor of love. No GW store is going to compete with that. Why try unless theres just no outlets in an area? cards make way more money and pay the bills. No retailers are making their living on GW alone. Including GW as they proved..

The reduces sales were inevitable by the way. Cant close a bunch of retail shops and not lose sales. Not possible. It was expected.

Then explain why their costs are either lower or the same. Again, read the damn annual report. You're trying to look smart when I'm sitting here with all the facts.

They spent less money and made even less money; total operating expenses are down year over year including exceptional expenses which include the restructuring of the corporation (European downsizing, etc.). Factoring this out, they would still see a 25% drop in profits! All while putting out a record number of releases. Seriously, you're stating a bunch of literal nonsense without any facts.

Read this, come back.

Edit: And for the record, I said essentially none of those things you stated.

 TheKbob wrote:
Then explain why their costs are either lower or the same. Again, read the damn annual report. You're trying to look smart when I'm sitting here with all the facts.

They spent less money and made even less money; total operating expenses are down year over year. All while putting out a record number of releases. Seriously, you're stating a bunch of literal nonsense without any facts.

Read this, come back.

No one said that they didn't have less sales. I never said that. Read back and tell me where I said that. I never did. So. Stop. Sayyng. It. It's boring me.

I said it was irrelvant to the ultimate fate of this company. IRRELEVANT. I said it was EXPECTED. I explained the Plateau they are at. I explained that this could happen (by the way it happened in 2008 as well, for obvious reasons). it will happen again! they call it a cycle for a friggin reason.

So. Do you have a point other than telling me repeatedly that their sales were down. Because that couldn't matter less to the QUESTION of whether they are going down to the bottom of the Atlantic like you seem to want to believe.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:


Edit: And for the record, I said essentially none of those things you stated.

Yes you DID pointedly NOT acknowledge those truths as being investments when saying they "made no investments". Which was my point Which you missed completely...

 Jancoran wrote:

No one said that they didn't have less sales. I never said that. Read back and tell me where I said that. I never did. So. Stop. Sayyng. It. It's boring me.

I said it was irrelvant to the ultimate fate of this company. IRRELEVANT. I said it was EXPECTED. I explained the Plateau they are at. I explained that this could happen (by the way it happened in 2008 as well, for obvious reasons). it will happen again! they call it a cycle for a friggin reason.

So. Do you have a point other than telling me repeatedly that their sales were down. Because that couldn't matter less to the QUESTION of whether they are going down to the bottom of the Atlantic like you seem to want to believe.

Yes you DID pointedly NOT acknowledge those truths as being investments when saying they "made no investments". Which was my point Which you missed completely...

You did not explain less sales. They relaunched their webstore and opened more stores than they previously had. Neither of these explains less sales. And they released more items than ever before, a record amount for the company, and still had less sales. No, you haven't explained anything outside the facts we know: the prices are higher, the quality is lower and thus the value has been reduced. They've met and surpassed price elasticity for their product, plain and simple. Their action of releasing 7E, which is essentially 6E errata, so soon is a marked act of desperation to increase revenue prior to the end of the fiscal year.

I may have "missed" the second point, but those aren't investments. A new game would be an investment. A new business style would be an investment. They simply kept producing the same products they have going while downsizing or eliminating any others. And are you going to try and sell me that a going on 30 year old company should put all their eggs in one (failing) basket? Because most diversify by this point.

They are going to go under because nothing they are doing is changing to increase sales. And they have nothing left to cut but sales vehicles and product production capabilities at this point as they have flattened the corporate structure entirely and cut back production to a single facility for their main product line. And people are leaving the game. There's zero advertising going on. The products continue to rise in cost and slash value. They have less product to now produce that's going to be considered a heavy hitter because we, again, have the fact that initial releases are the largest sales volumes and they've already released all the big hitters in 2014.

Or you could read that thread I linked. Seriously, you're obstinate and against all data. You're holding an stance that's counter to logic and irrational.

Kbob you should just stop, anybody who reads his post can tell he has no clue what he is talking about and likely can't really read to well since he missed you post on June 6th dividends.

 TheKbob wrote:

You did not explain less sales. They relaunched their webstore and opened more stores than they previously had. Neither of these explains less sales. And they released more items than ever before, a record amount for the company, and still had less sales. No, you haven't explained anything outside the facts we know: the prices are higher, the quality is lower and thus the value has been reduced. They've met and surpassed price elasticity for their product, plain and simple. Their action of releasing 7E, which is essentially 6E errata, so soon is a marked act of desperation to increase revenue prior to the end of the fiscal year.

I may have "missed" the second point, but those aren't investments. A new game would be an investment. A new business style would be an investment. They simply kept producing the same products they have going while downsizing or eliminating any others. And are you going to try and sell me that a going on 30 year old company should put all their eggs in one (failing) basket? Because most diversify by this point.

They are going to go under because nothing they are doing is changing to increase sales. And they have nothing left to cut but sales vehicles and product production capabilities at this point as they have flattened the corporate structure entirely and cut back production to a single facility for their main product line. And people are leaving the game. There's zero advertising going on. The products continue to rise in cost and slash value. They have less product to now produce that's going to be considered a heavy hitter because we, again, have the fact that initial releases are the largest sales volumes and they've already released all the big hitters in 2014.

Or you could read that thread I linked. Seriously, you're obstinate and against all data. You're holding an stance that's counter to logic and irrational.

Closing stores does ACTUALLY explain less sales. Actually. It does. Which I told you. So do threads like this.

Quality is lower? eh. No. In comparison to what? 6E? 5E? No.

And yes those ARE investments. Saying otherwise is foolish. Any time you spend money developing product, whetyher its games or diodes, its investment. Im sorry but it just is and if you cant appreciate that idea in business then there a HUGE chunk of this convo that makes sense to me now. Your perception on that colors a lot of the way you think about this.

The only thing I firmly beleive here is that you BELEIVe they will sink and essentially when it gets down to it, you base this solely on two premise of consequence. 1) they had less sales and 2) they "arent changing" (despite the Grey Knight starter thing costing $56 off retial or some such, but I'll admit I havent seen it yet to confirm) Well that sounds pretty easily fixed to me and pretty far from a death sentence. Hell I think you could say that about every company in America, almost every day of their existence. need to change and need to make more sales. Story of my life.

TSR didnt die, it sold and lived on. Dungeons and Dragons and its offspring have been doing it for decades after they said the game was doomed. It's not. Even Pathfinder and even their own idiot child 4E couldn't kill it. So Im not worried.

 Jancoran wrote:

Closing stores does ACTUALLY explain less sales. Actually. It does. Which I told you. So do threads like this.

As someone without a background in business, this prompts the question to me - what explains the decision to close the store in the first place if not low sales before they closed?

The old complaint was the delay in releases...

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Closing stores does ACTUALLY explain less sales. Actually. It does. Which I told you. So do threads like this.

As someone without a background in business, this prompts the question to me - what explains the decision to close the store in the first place if not low sales before they closed?

I cant pretend to read their mind but it seems strategic and it seems like they got the idea I told you earlier: They are competing very directly with game stores that do it better and can afford to do it better because of other lines of biz. So what happens is they are selling stuff, but the Overhead is just too high. Lets say Im a successful storefront. I'm Manager of the year material, I've selling $750 a day in GW Product. That's $250K+ in sales.

Now watch

If I send this stuff to a distributor, or the store, same cost (because distributors can now go to the GW store as their pick up point,BEST case scneario). So to get it here, cost is moot.

So then the store has a manager. Lets dare to dream and say the duce makes 30K a year. He has two 30 hour a week part timers. Another 30,000. taxes: Payroll taxes? 12K, Rent? 30K

So Out of $250,000, you gave at LEAST 102K away. After you pay for uniforms, signage, computers and equipment, counter space and all the other stuff (terrain, paints and whatever) maybe abouth 10K a year in miscellaneous office and cleaning expenses? INsurance will surely be around 3K a year. Call it 115K fixed expenses more or less. Who knows but sure.

Option two: cut 115K FIXED COST out of the budget, sell 250K less. Seems like a bad deal at first right? You'll get good old Noir and KBob on a forum screaming about your deminse. But then you realize the local game store WOULD have sold that same $250K for you but now you've made him mad (and this is the case in two stores I have easy access to). So if you can make the store owners not mad? But it will not MATTER when you screwed up (se 6E for details). You FIRSt have to invest in a 7E and get the codex's done and get the perception trending in the right direction to make that work. Enter the plan.

So step one, you simply let the local stores do what they were gonna do anyways (sell it for you). Now in that scneario you're getting 55%. So what you see is that GW is actually making the same amount of money, No matter the economic risks (thats a technical term not a general one). And here's the real problem: GW HAS to sell like $250,000 just to GET the same return. Anything under that number and they take on water.
You DONT always get employee of the year (truuuuust me). You DONT always sell that much and you DONT know when the next 2008 is going to happen. So by returning the sales ot the local vendor when things go down or people get online and rage about GW enough that others get poisoned (sad sad sad reality of forums) you're not losing your you-know-what. Also if another 6E happens, youre insulated. Another trouble with those "fixed" costs is they dont STAY fixed....

So if you're aking my opinion, they overestimated the sales or underestimated the fixed costs. Could also be they overestimated the secondary lines for sustainable income like paint and supplies. Either way. I'm guessing the quality of the worker pool contributed too in some places. Lets face it, not every neighborhood is full of winners So they eventually had to concede in certain stores there just wasnt ewnough volume and started reducing hours, bonuses, anything they could not to give KBob here ammo for his online doom saying. Their name was at stake. what they also underestimated was how things travel when your employees of a very visible and niche company. People know across the world aboutthe hour reductions and all that other stuff. GW stores are notorious for being closed or running oddly UNgamerlike hours, based o ntheir staffing and sales volume. Managers probably got tired of having to be a revolving HR department. that has got to suck. I know that pain ALL too well.

So the biz model just does not make sense without other income streams coming to the store and really, it just wasnt there.

Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

There's gona be a new 7-th ed Codex: X release soon.

1. 'Rumors' period. Information is scarce and not final yet. Many important parts are missing.
Part of the player base is fine with it. Others are desperate, suffer intense depression, sell their army X miniatures and commit suicides.
2. 'Shortly after the initial release' period. Codex has not been properly playtested and not all the main dataslates are out yet.
Part of the player base are enthusiastic. Others that are desperate but still live through 'Rumors' period continue suffering intense depression, selling army X miniatures and commiting suicides.
3. Actual gaming period.
Part of the player base are happy with vast majority of the codex but miss the old fluff and bits that have been taken away. Others that are desperate but still manage to live through the 'Rumors' and 'Shortly after the release' periods continue suffering intense depression, have allready sold their army X miniatures but will continue whining on the forums about how army X sux.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

...which is pretty hilarious statetement given that TheKbob claimed that "[GW] can easily fold in 18-24 months" and then provided ZERO evidence for that, or indeed any other of his claims.

Which is just opening yourself up for completely justified condescending insults amirite

Backfire wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

...which is pretty hilarious statetement given that TheKbob claimed that "[GW] can easily fold in 18-24 months" and then provided ZERO evidence for that, or indeed any other of his claims.

Is a 42% drop in profits with no sign of turning anything around not evidence a company could be going under?

On the next Geraldo when a "plateau" turns into stagnated sales volume....we speak with Radio Shack about the multiple quarters of negative sales growth that they have experienced then compare that with the slide in GW sales volume. Finally, we learn the term "Death Spiral" as it applies to companies that appear healthy but exhibit multiple warning signs of imminent implosion. Time will tell and some will end up eating crow.

Backfire wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

...which is pretty hilarious statetement given that TheKbob claimed that "[GW] can easily fold in 18-24 months" and then provided ZERO evidence for that, or indeed any other of his claims.

Ignoring given evidence and claiming they didn't provide any are not the same thing. He pointed to the thread that discusses this very topic multiple times. The plentiful evidence is all there.

I left because my homemade pizza was done and then I read something actually stimulating. Glad to see I missed nothing.

And Jans sales argument is still invalid. They opened more stores than closed and pushed a great majority of their products yo direct order only online. And again, all while releasing a record number of new products of which we know the largest volume of sales is in the launch perirod. Hate to be a broken record, but this was never addressed despite being the key point of the argument.

Hes too busy insulting people and sticking to one narrow part of the discussion to look at the bigger picture and has yet to discuss any of the data found in the annual report. At this point its either a case of willing ignorance or blatant trolling. It's not as if I'm asking something incredulous or absurd. Rather, look at the data the company itself provided (and which is contrary to his statements) and then pitch a new argument. Otherwise he's still wrong.


Also, his latest rant is covered better by the mastermimis articles. He's failed to address that their year over year operating costs are lower while doing all previously stated and their revenues are still down and profits took a hit of 25% if you don't include the exceptional costs as I noted previously. Again, without a massive change to their tactics, which is not evident in anything they've said to date to either investors or hobby enthusiasts, they will be on a ride to demise.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

...which is pretty hilarious statetement given that TheKbob claimed that "[GW] can easily fold in 18-24 months" and then provided ZERO evidence for that, or indeed any other of his claims.

Is a 42% drop in profits with no sign of turning anything around not evidence a company could be going under?

nope. which Ive told you. and explained.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Kbob, stop wasting time with this guy. When someone starts the conversation with condescending insults, you know you're not going to have a logical debate. Yet another GW apologist Insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. I'm shocked.

...which is pretty hilarious statetement given that TheKbob claimed that "[GW] can easily fold in 18-24 months" and then provided ZERO evidence for that, or indeed any other of his claims.

Ignoring given evidence and claiming they didn't provide any are not the same thing. He pointed to the thread that discusses this very topic multiple times. The plentiful evidence is all there.

Eviudence? No. More opinions. Dont get confused.

So Games Workshop's own annual report is an opinion? I honestly doubt you read the report.

Apparently after having gone down the tubes as far as any thread I have ever seen, this has managed to go down even further.

Why continue? Are you guys working on your futility endurance (your ability to press on and continue typing to each other even though it is totally pointless).

Super Newb wrote:
Apparently after having gone down the tubes as far as any thread I have ever seen, this has managed to go down even further.

Why continue? Are you guys working on your futility endurance (your ability to press on and continue typing to each other even though it is totally pointless).

Well obviously they can't let that person they have never met and most likely will never meet or know, think they are wrong or win this argument.

This release schedule is pretty tight, yo.

 Musashi363 wrote:
So Games Workshop's own annual report is an opinion? I honestly doubt you read the report.

No. read context and stop wasting time. The "evidence" he refers to is this thread. the Financial Report is all over the web. google it for two seconds. you'll find it.

You cannot HAVE proof the company will be gone in 18 months because it doesnt EXIST. This needs to be EXPLAINED to you?

and now you're going to follow that up with suggesting I heaven't read the report we've JUST been sitting here talking about?

Gimme a break.