Poll |
 |
|
 |
Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 21:38:56
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
AllSeeingSkink wrote:I think there's way too much bad blood between people who want it rolled in to one and people who don't.
That's what you get when you have a Codex for 16 years and people think it should be removed 'because of reasons'.
Even just the special characters, there's 22 special characters between BA, DA and SW.
Are you only counting the HQ's?
Because I count at least 14 unique 'units' in Blood Angels alone. They would all need their own entry.
Mr Morden wrote:Hey - you know what forgot it - if you think the Blood Angels revised fluff s good fine - enjoy your life
Yes I have the bloody codex and yes I know whats in it - but I did not realise it was so damn perfect that it can never be improved - my mistake
That is absolutely not what I said! There is surely room for new stuff and improvements.
But how are you going to do that if they need to cut 75% of all stuff because someone thinks it's a good idea to have them merged with three other Codices?
Are you sure you have the Codex? Because then you'd know that Bloodstrike Missiles are actually different and that there is no such thing as 'blood guns'.
And whether or not the current fluff is good is just a matter of opinion, so not a reason to cut the codex in half (or in a quarter).
Lies and misinformation - I have the pevious Codexes and there is not that much fluff - check your facts.
Perhaps you would like to count the pages that are merely pictures and subtract them from the total amount of pages?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/17 22:02:02
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Lit By the Flames of Prospero
|
I personally think we should cut down on big codices and have minidexes, and then a fluff book for anyone interested, similar to the current rulebook.
So you could just buy the rules if that's all you wanted, or you could just buy the fluff. They'd also be smaller, easier to carry and just plain nice, and you could then justify owning more of them because the cost would be dropped.
|
Muh Black Templars
Blacksails wrote:Maybe you should read your own posts before calling someone else's juvenile. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 01:18:30
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
|
Since I've seen a lot of people arguing it for SM, I have to ask: what makes CSM so special that each god should be split into four codices? Other than the main four, I don't see much difference between Sons of Horus and Alpha Legions. I feel these could be equally given the same amount of attention as chapter tactics in SM. I still think a combining of Daemon and CSM would be great, even a Khorne/Nurgle codex and a Tzeentch/Slaanesh codex. I think it's freaking stupid I can read all about Nurgle marines and Typhus, but hey! I can't take Plagubearers because they're not in the same fething codex.
I am genuinely curious though, what makes CSM deserve their own individual codices?
|
~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 01:36:13
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
jreilly89 wrote:Since I've seen a lot of people arguing it for SM, I have to ask: what makes CSM so special that each god should be split into four codices? Other than the main four, I don't see much difference between Sons of Horus and Alpha Legions. I feel these could be equally given the same amount of attention as chapter tactics in SM. I still think a combining of Daemon and CSM would be great, even a Khorne/Nurgle codex and a Tzeentch/Slaanesh codex. I think it's freaking stupid I can read all about Nurgle marines and Typhus, but hey! I can't take Plagubearers because they're not in the same fething codex.
I am genuinely curious though, what makes CSM deserve their own individual codices?
You mean the varied daemon weapons, Daemon Engines that would drastically be different between gods, the varied tactics that would come from rogue psykers/rogue traitors, the new inventions created by the Dark Mechanicus, the Horus Heresy Era weaponry that would still be in peak condition ( CSM still use Reaper Cannons, come on they should have some HH stuff besides the CRAPPY STUFF!), Daemons of different gods, Gigantic mutations of monsters, potent sigils of blood and bone, flame and fear, drastically different weapons between cult legions and people who serve them.
Not to mention the fact that Chaos Lords should be able to become Psykers (They aren't CAPTAINS!) they worship and use the warp and don't care for structure like SM.
Heck tactics and gear loadout being different for the basic troops would make sense because they aren't using a standardized template between each other as Space Marines is, Troops of nurgle would have plague spewers and bolts loaded with plagues that explode upon hitting the enemy, while the Khorne don't care, but they use more powerful melee weapons with bolters to try and tear the flesh from the enemy and make them bleed.
I mean really, unlike Space Marines even the basic RHINO would potentially be different between gods, with Tzeentch Rhino's flickering in and out of reality and getting it's troops into position, with Nurgle's bloated pus covered Rhino's belching forth plague and bile and making it hard to see it, while coating the enemy in filth.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 01:39:21
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 02:02:45
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Kangodo wrote:Are you only counting the HQ's?
Because I count at least 14 unique 'units' in Blood Angels alone. They would all need their own entry.
Every time I see the word "need" in this context it makes me think of the Imperial Guard. Apparently chainmail-wielding feral worlders with swords and laspistols can keep sharing their army list entry with flak-equipped, professionally drilled Cadian lasgunners. But Space Marines are so special, they "need" separate entries and separate books.
I can perfectly understand scepticism towards losing one's own book - but objectively, less codices should make for a better release schedule and focus on part of the design studio, and it seems so very obvious with 40k where we should start cutting down.
And as I said previously, GW's new trend with supplements would allow affected fans to retain a possibility for new fluff or new special units and characters. Perhaps even for more Chapters than now, considering that these supplements might take far less time to write than a proper Codex.
A single Codex per main army, with supplements for subgroups (Chapters, Regiments, Craftworlds, ...). The most obvious approach.
Not that I'd expect GW to follow it anytime soon; all of this is really just fans talking about hot air.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 06:36:56
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
|
ZebioLizard2 wrote: jreilly89 wrote:Since I've seen a lot of people arguing it for SM, I have to ask: what makes CSM so special that each god should be split into four codices? Other than the main four, I don't see much difference between Sons of Horus and Alpha Legions. I feel these could be equally given the same amount of attention as chapter tactics in SM. I still think a combining of Daemon and CSM would be great, even a Khorne/Nurgle codex and a Tzeentch/Slaanesh codex. I think it's freaking stupid I can read all about Nurgle marines and Typhus, but hey! I can't take Plagubearers because they're not in the same fething codex.
I am genuinely curious though, what makes CSM deserve their own individual codices?
You mean the varied daemon weapons, Daemon Engines that would drastically be different between gods, the varied tactics that would come from rogue psykers/rogue traitors, the new inventions created by the Dark Mechanicus, the Horus Heresy Era weaponry that would still be in peak condition ( CSM still use Reaper Cannons, come on they should have some HH stuff besides the CRAPPY STUFF!), Daemons of different gods, Gigantic mutations of monsters, potent sigils of blood and bone, flame and fear, drastically different weapons between cult legions and people who serve them.
Not to mention the fact that Chaos Lords should be able to become Psykers (They aren't CAPTAINS!) they worship and use the warp and don't care for structure like SM.
Heck tactics and gear loadout being different for the basic troops would make sense because they aren't using a standardized template between each other as Space Marines is, Troops of nurgle would have plague spewers and bolts loaded with plagues that explode upon hitting the enemy, while the Khorne don't care, but they use more powerful melee weapons with bolters to try and tear the flesh from the enemy and make them bleed.
I mean really, unlike Space Marines even the basic RHINO would potentially be different between gods, with Tzeentch Rhino's flickering in and out of reality and getting it's troops into position, with Nurgle's bloated pus covered Rhino's belching forth plague and bile and making it hard to see it, while coating the enemy in filth.
Sure, and I'd be all over that. I also think CSM should have access to more than ONE Land Raider variation (I mean, seriously). That being said, as it is, each god doesn't need its own codex, as there really isn't enough units to justify it. If they gave them a lot of unique units, especially as you said various god vehicles and weapons, then I would absolutely buy a Codex: Nurgle. But as it stands, I don't see any reason why CSM players are crying for DA and BA to get rolled into SM, when mono god armies don't really have enough units to stand on their own
|
~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 08:14:57
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
jreilly89 wrote: ZebioLizard2 wrote: jreilly89 wrote:Since I've seen a lot of people arguing it for SM, I have to ask: what makes CSM so special that each god should be split into four codices? Other than the main four, I don't see much difference between Sons of Horus and Alpha Legions. I feel these could be equally given the same amount of attention as chapter tactics in SM. I still think a combining of Daemon and CSM would be great, even a Khorne/Nurgle codex and a Tzeentch/Slaanesh codex. I think it's freaking stupid I can read all about Nurgle marines and Typhus, but hey! I can't take Plagubearers because they're not in the same fething codex.
I am genuinely curious though, what makes CSM deserve their own individual codices?
You mean the varied daemon weapons, Daemon Engines that would drastically be different between gods, the varied tactics that would come from rogue psykers/rogue traitors, the new inventions created by the Dark Mechanicus, the Horus Heresy Era weaponry that would still be in peak condition ( CSM still use Reaper Cannons, come on they should have some HH stuff besides the CRAPPY STUFF!), Daemons of different gods, Gigantic mutations of monsters, potent sigils of blood and bone, flame and fear, drastically different weapons between cult legions and people who serve them.
Not to mention the fact that Chaos Lords should be able to become Psykers (They aren't CAPTAINS!) they worship and use the warp and don't care for structure like SM.
Heck tactics and gear loadout being different for the basic troops would make sense because they aren't using a standardized template between each other as Space Marines is, Troops of nurgle would have plague spewers and bolts loaded with plagues that explode upon hitting the enemy, while the Khorne don't care, but they use more powerful melee weapons with bolters to try and tear the flesh from the enemy and make them bleed.
I mean really, unlike Space Marines even the basic RHINO would potentially be different between gods, with Tzeentch Rhino's flickering in and out of reality and getting it's troops into position, with Nurgle's bloated pus covered Rhino's belching forth plague and bile and making it hard to see it, while coating the enemy in filth.
Sure, and I'd be all over that. I also think CSM should have access to more than ONE Land Raider variation (I mean, seriously). That being said, as it is, each god doesn't need its own codex, as there really isn't enough units to justify it. If they gave them a lot of unique units, especially as you said various god vehicles and weapons, then I would absolutely buy a Codex: Nurgle. But as it stands, I don't see any reason why CSM players are crying for DA and BA to get rolled into SM, when mono god armies don't really have enough units to stand on their own
... So a chapter that barely uses slightly different tactics and looks " BA" with another army that's base tactics is something any army could do " DA", and those that had to have new and newer units just to justify it " SW" would be lesser in content then that? All of these armies that had to have constant new stuff to justify things would be more then armies that would require actual new units, but at the same time new units that would have different sorts of units beyond "Oh hey we have 'HELFROST WEAPONS NOW'
I just have to ask you if your trolling me.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 08:16:08
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 10:32:49
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
I'm going to have to echo Lynata. There's hardly a need for a dozen special characters and exclusive access to some variant units to define a chapter.
Besides, for the people claiming the dozen odd 'unique' units to BA, how many of those are characters, and how many could easily be included in a big book of marine to help increase diversity for all chapters? I can assure you that giving Librarian Dreads, or Angry dreads with claws isn't going to make any less BA, rather, it opens up options for every other chapter.
Also, yes, hand flamers and Inferno pistols should absolutely be common wargear for all chapters.
Really, a chapter can be perfectly flavourful and unique with 0-3 special characters, one or two exclusive units (Death Company and Sang Guard for BA, as an example), and some special rules to cover the tweaks (giving fast to tanks, red thirst), and now you have a simplified chapter that can fit on a page in the army list section, and 5 pages in the fluff/description section.
|
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 11:09:13
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
True, there is no need for those things! They could do with 0-3 Special Characters. But they already have those things - 8 Special Characters and 5 special units - so you can't just take it all away. And no. You can't have our Infernus Pistol. Want it too? Play Sisters, Inquisition or Blood Angels. Want Hand Flamers? Play an army that has them. Do you want Psychic Dreads? Play an army that has them. Really, a chapter can be perfectly flavourful and unique with 0-3 special characters, one or two exclusive units (Death Company and Sang Guard for BA, as an example), and some special rules to cover the tweaks (giving fast to tanks, red thirst), and now you have a simplified chapter that can fit on a page in the army list section, and 5 pages in the fluff/description section.
And what do you suggest we do with the other 5 special characters? What do we do with the other 3 exclusive units and the wargear? How do we deal with the elite-Chaplains or Troop-Assault Marines? How do you suggest we implement the Dedicated Transport-Land Raiders? Or how about the rules? Hell, you would need an entire page to describe their 'Chapter Trait'. "Ooh, let's just give everything to everyone and tell Blood Angel-players to suck it!" does not sound like a good business-idea. So in short: These four Codices are keeping their own book and they are not going to change anything because it's a terrible idea and you should feel bad for even thinking about it.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 11:10:41
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 11:42:58
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
"Ooh, let's just give everything to everyone and tell Blood Angel-players to suck it!" does not sound like a good business-idea.
They've been doing it to CSM, so why not.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 11:58:26
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Kangodo wrote:But they already have those things - 8 Special Characters and 5 special units - so you can't just take it all away.
Are you sure? They did so before.
Special Characters could become normal Captains and Chapter Masters etc, special units could become vanilla codex units with a Chapter Traits-based special rule to set them apart.
The Chapters didn't start out this way, too. This is really just stuff that has retroactively been piled on them over the years. Have you ever read the 2E Codex Angels of Death, for example? That book was so thin, GW had to reprint the origin of the Space Marines twice to fill the pages. In the end, it becomes a question of whether you'd want to fix a mistake that has been made decades ago, or if you're fine with continuing to go down a path that sabotages the IP's potential for more variety and a more equal approach to supporting the different armies.
In my opinion, a more unified approach to the Space Marines would also have homebrewed and alternate official Chapters become more popular. Yeah, the table in your FLGS or local club might still feature 50% Marines, but at least you may start seeing a few more colours once they are all made to appear interesting.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 11:59:34
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
|
Currently I don't see the need to ""Concentrate on the Xenos" at the current speed of Release, at this rate we should have everything out by Easter.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 13:46:03
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
|
Having SW, DA and BA merged is a bit much. I'd have just 1 Codex: Other Marines, and have them all in there.
If Grey Knights are that special, have them in with Inquisitors AND the Sisters, fluff-be-damned.
Merge Eldar and GW, too.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 14:44:46
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
|
changerofways wrote:Lots of people keep going on about how unique DA SW and BA are from the other SM but I have yet to see someone say why.
With chapter tactics the newest SW has bundled some very, very different legions into the same codex.
It just leads me to think people want to feel like a special star and have their Space Marine Legion have its own Codex.
Space Wolves have zero units in common with Codex: Space Marines aside from the dreadnoughts and tanks. Literally all of their infantry units are different, all the way from Scouts to Devastators (Long Fangs).
Don't get me wrong. The Space Wolves have gotten so awful with wolf sleds to wolf cavalry to clown shoe flyers that I'd not shed a single tear if they were to disappear from the universe entirely. But it's an entirely different army than Codex: Space Marines, so including them in the book would be basically just adding the entire contents of Codex: Space Wolves to Codex: Space Marines.
The Blood Angels and Dark Angels, on the other hand, could probably have been folded into C: SM with their own Chapter Tactics and one or two unique entries each (Death Company). But then GW would miss out on all that sweet monies selling the additional books.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 14:49:59
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
|
BrotherOfBone wrote:I personally think we should cut down on big codices and have minidexes, and then a fluff book for anyone interested, similar to the current rulebook.
So you could just buy the rules if that's all you wanted, or you could just buy the fluff. They'd also be smaller, easier to carry and just plain nice, and you could then justify owning more of them because the cost would be dropped.
I think it would be an amazing idea to include a minidex, similar to the mini rulebook, in the army boxes.
As for the codex, they should stay the same. Why and how would making a giant dictionary sized marine book every be useful? Oh you want to play marines? Here, buy this +$150 codex that is 400 pages long. Lug that thing around and have fun flipping through it every time your opponent asks you a question. That would just be terrible. Why change things when they work?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 14:51:48
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 14:56:15
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
Veteran Sergeant wrote: changerofways wrote:Lots of people keep going on about how unique DA SW and BA are from the other SM but I have yet to see someone say why.
With chapter tactics the newest SW has bundled some very, very different legions into the same codex.
It just leads me to think people want to feel like a special star and have their Space Marine Legion have its own Codex.
Space Wolves have zero units in common with Codex: Space Marines aside from the dreadnoughts and tanks. Literally all of their infantry units are different, all the way from Scouts to Devastators (Long Fangs).
Don't get me wrong. The Space Wolves have gotten so awful with wolf sleds to wolf cavalry to clown shoe flyers that I'd not shed a single tear if they were to disappear from the universe entirely. But it's an entirely different army than Codex: Space Marines, so including them in the book would be basically just adding the entire contents of Codex: Space Wolves to Codex: Space Marines.
The Blood Angels and Dark Angels, on the other hand, could probably have been folded into C: SM with their own Chapter Tactics and one or two unique entries each (Death Company). But then GW would miss out on all that sweet monies selling the additional books.
All they are mostly the same units with slightly different names and wargear options.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 14:58:52
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
|
Kangodo wrote:True, there is no need for those things! They could do with 0-3 Special Characters.
But they already have those things - 8 Special Characters and 5 special units - so you can't just take it all away.
And no. You can't have our Infernus Pistol. Want it too? Play Sisters, Inquisition or Blood Angels.
Want Hand Flamers? Play an army that has them.
Do you want Psychic Dreads? Play an army that has them.
Really, a chapter can be perfectly flavourful and unique with 0-3 special characters, one or two exclusive units (Death Company and Sang Guard for BA, as an example), and some special rules to cover the tweaks (giving fast to tanks, red thirst), and now you have a simplified chapter that can fit on a page in the army list section, and 5 pages in the fluff/description section.
And what do you suggest we do with the other 5 special characters?
What do we do with the other 3 exclusive units and the wargear?
How do we deal with the elite-Chaplains or Troop-Assault Marines?
How do you suggest we implement the Dedicated Transport-Land Raiders?
Or how about the rules? Hell, you would need an entire page to describe their 'Chapter Trait'.
"Ooh, let's just give everything to everyone and tell Blood Angel-players to suck it!" does not sound like a good business-idea.
So in short: These four Codices are keeping their own book and they are not going to change anything because it's a terrible idea and you should feel bad for even thinking about it.
Or we could see these "differences" for what they are, FoC/ USR/Wargear swaps in most cases, many of which may not survive a new codex iteration in the first place. Elites Chaplains are unique to the 5E BA codex. They weren't anything special in any other iteration of the BA's and may not be in a new BA book. Death Company are as different from each other iteration from themselves as they are form any other unit. Etc.
It's not at all a terrible idea, it's only a terrible idea if you're glued to exactly what exists now as the puritanical definition of what defines the army, in which case you're likely to be disappointed by a new codex anyway.
|
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:03:05
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
@Veteran Sergeant: Again. Because people refuse to read it. 14 unique units! And that would actually be better for Games Workshop. Because for every 40 euro they would lose on a BA-sale, they would gain at least 15 on every Space Marine-player (including BA-players) that have to buy a bloated book with units they don't give a damn about. Lynata wrote:Are you sure? They did so before. Special Characters could become normal Captains and Chapter Masters etc, special units could become vanilla codex units with a Chapter Traits-based special rule to set them apart.
How? How are you going to turn Captain Tycho or Chapter Master Gabriel Seth into a regular Captain/Chapter Master without throwing all of their rules out of the window? So you are saying Sanguinary Guard could become a vanilla-unit with just some special rules for the BA-Chapter Tactic? That has got to be the worst idea on the internet so far. And I've seen some crazy ideas on /b/.. The Chapters didn't start out this way, too. This is really just stuff that has retroactively been piled on them over the years. Have you ever read the 2E Codex Angels of Death, for example? That book was so thin, GW had to reprint the origin of the Space Marines twice to fill the pages. In the end, it becomes a question of whether you'd want to fix a mistake that has been made decades ago, or if you're fine with continuing to go down a path that sabotages the IP's potential for more variety and a more equal approach to supporting the different armies.
Which is why this 'merging' would have been a good idea 16 years ago, but not now. Not any more. How is it a mistake and how is it sabotaging the IP? In my opinion, a more unified approach to the Space Marines would also have homebrewed and alternate official Chapters become more popular. Yeah, the table in your FLGS or local club might still feature 50% Marines, but at least you may start seeing a few more colours once they are all made to appear interesting. 
How exactly? Open the Codex: Space Marines. Download and print this PDF: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/FWchaptertactics-v2.pdf There, enough options to pick without having to ruin four Codices. Good luck! Vaktathi wrote:It's not at all a terrible idea, it's only a terrible idea if you're glued to exactly what exists now as the puritanical definition of what defines the army, in which case you're likely to be disappointed by a new codex anyway.
No, it's a terrible idea if you have been playing an army with its own separate Codex for 16 years and someone suddenly thinks it's a good idea to remove your entire Codex from the game because 'they feel like its a good idea'. For the last years we've had dozens of threads where people are discussing how awesome it would be to have additional Supplements for Chapters and how Chaos Marines and Imperial Guard would be even more awesome if they had more Codices. And here we are, talking about how we should just cram everything in one book because some people are jealous because they don't have their own book. If you want more variation in the C: SM-book, you should try clicking that link I posted.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 15:07:27
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:09:22
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
Because people refuse to read it.
14 unique units!
Slight wargear changes are not unique!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:18:21
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
Commander Dante
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth
Astorath the Grim
The Sanguinor
Mephiston
Captain Tycho
Death Company Tycho
Reclusiarch
Sanguinary Guard
Furioso Dreadnought
Furioso Librarian
Sanguinary Priest
Brother Corbulo
Death Company
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
Death Company Dreadnought
Baal Predator
How would you change each and one of them?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:31:51
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
Kangodo wrote:
Commander Dante
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth
Astorath the Grim
The Sanguinor
Mephiston
Captain Tycho
Death Company Tycho
Reclusiarch
Sanguinary Guard
Furioso Dreadnought
Furioso Librarian
Sanguinary Priest
Brother Corbulo
Death Company
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
Death Company Dreadnought
Baal Predator
How would you change each and one of them?
Baal Predator
Wargear options, FoC change if used in a blood angel detachment
Furioso Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought options
Furioso Librarian
Venerable upgrade for Ironclad Dreadnought (Why is this unique to BA anyways)
Death Company Dreadnought
X point upgrade for dreadnoughts in a BA detachment
Sanguinary Guard
Honour guard wargear options: Jump pack.
The rest of the SC's could come in their respective BA supplement, with Death Company being a unique Unit, along with sanguinary priests.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 15:32:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:41:13
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
|
Kangodo wrote:
No, it's a terrible idea if you have been playing an army with its own separate Codex for 16 years and someone suddenly thinks it's a good idea to remove your entire Codex from the game because 'they feel like its a good idea'.
They're not removing it, they're folding into another army that's 80%+ identical.
For the last years we've had dozens of threads where people are discussing how awesome it would be to have additional Supplements for Chapters and how Chaos Marines and Imperial Guard would be even more awesome if they had more Codices.
Both of which arguably have far more claim...and yet don't. Either way, not the point. They have one codex and make do.
And here we are, talking about how we should just cram everything in one book because some people are jealous because they don't have their own book.
Or because having so many marine books crowds out other possible releases by taking development resources and release pipeline and heavily contributes to the fact that GW consistently has codex books lagging two editions behind just to have slightly different loyalist marines.
Kangodo wrote:
Commander Dante
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth
Astorath the Grim
The Sanguinor
Mephiston
Captain Tycho
Death Company Tycho
Reclusiarch
Sanguinary Guard
Furioso Dreadnought
Furioso Librarian
Sanguinary Priest
Brother Corbulo
Death Company
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
Death Company Dreadnought
Baal Predator
How would you change each and one of them?
The special characters can be ported over as is, let's ignore them.
Reclusiarch - Chaplain. Done.
Furioso Dreadnought - previous to it's current WS6 incarnation it was just a dread with a 2nd CCW. That's it. Now it's an Ironclad with higher WS and a couple different wargear options. Could easily just say "armies using BA chapter tactics may take X options on Ironclad dreads"
Sanguinary Priest - again, another unit that currently works much differently than previous incarnations and may come out very differently again regardless. Is basically an independent bubble Apothecary, could be ported over any number of ways "Apothecaries taken with BA chapter tactics may be taken independently as IC's"
Death Company Dreadnought - Basically a dread with Daemonic Possession and WS5.
Baal Predator - simple weapon swap "Predators in an army with BA chapter tactics may instead take the following weapons options...." done.
Death Company - given how radically different every incarnation of this unit has been between each BA codex, almost anything could be done with it.
Sanguinary Guard - Honor Guard with jump packs and MC'd weapons.
|
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:48:42
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
|
And all of that Marginalizes yet another chapter like the Black Templars.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:53:22
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
ZebioLizard2 wrote:Baal Predator Wargear options, FoC change if used in a blood angel detachment
So we need different Wargear, a FoC-change and addition of the Fast and Scouts-rule ánd other options. Might as well be a different unit-entry. Furioso Dreadnought Ironclad Dreadnought options
Different wargear, different options and additional rules as well as different profile and Furioso Librarian? (Why is this unique to BA anyways)
Because Blood Angels are Blood Angels and not Codex: Space Marines. Might as well ask why Monoliths are unique to Necrons. Death Company Dreadnought X point upgrade for dreadnoughts in a BA detachment
With a change to their Battlefield Role, different wargear, different rules and different profile? Sanguinary Guard Honour guard wargear options: Jump pack.
Blood Angels already have an Honour Guard and they are entirely different from Sanguinary Guard. BA-Honour Guard is also completely different from SM-Honour Guard. They are three entirely different units. The rest of the SC's could come in their respective BA supplement, with Death Company being a unique Unit, along with sanguinary priests.
So in short they should rip up the book, force BA-players to buy the Codex: Space Marines and then try to make up for the complete rape of the Codex by bringing out another 50 dollar Supplement that tries to make up for their mistakes? This might be a weird question.. But did a Blood Angel-player steal your lunch money or something? Because I wouldn't even wish this to my worst enemies. Vaktathi wrote:They're not removing it, they're folding into another army that's 80%+ identical.
60%, maximum. And that is enough reason to continue with a separate Codex as they did in the last 16 years. Both of which arguably have far more claim...and yet don't. Either way, not the point. They have one codex and make do.
And they should have their own book; not take away the Codices of other armies. Reclusiarch - Chaplain. Done.
Blood Angels already have Chaplains, they are Elites. As for the rest, see above. You would have to put so many additional rules and exceptions, just for one army. Now imagine doing that four times! And why? Because we still haven't heard a good reason.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 15:58:00
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 15:54:17
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
|
Anpu42 wrote:And all of that Marginalizes yet another chapter like the Black Templars.
When literally everything that made them different is still there?
Besides, BT haven't been marginalized, they have access to a greater array of units and weapons and options than ever before, still retain their "unique" troops unit and some special rules. They lost some things, but who's to say they'd have retained them in a new codex either? Very little from that 4E era survived intact. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kangodo wrote: ZebioLizard2 wrote:Baal Predator
Wargear options, FoC change if used in a blood angel detachment
So we need different Wargear, a FoC-change and addition of the Fast and Scouts-rule ánd other options.
Might as well be a different unit-entry.
Scout and FoC change may not survive and didn't exist before. They're not a defining feature of the unit. The defining feature of the Baal is its weapons.
Furioso Dreadnought
Different wargear, different options and additional rules as well as different profile and Furioso Librarian?
Again, not huge numbers of different options. We've got an almost identical statline and unit type, they could be homogenized very easily unless one is just so stuck to the specifics of the 5E book that anything else will disappoint, in which case it's also very likely a new BA codex will disappoint.
(Why is this unique to BA anyways)
Because Blood Angels are Blood Angels and not Codex: Space Marines.
Might as well ask why Monoliths are unique to Necrons.
Because Monoliths, unlike Dreadnoughts, are not in common usage by Space Marine chapters. We're talking about modifications to a common platform sharing the vast majority of stats and weapons and rules.
Death Company Dreadnought
With a change to their Battlefield Role, different wargear, different rules and different profile?
Once again, we're talking about very slight differences that may or may not survive intact as-is anyway.
Sanguinary Guard
Blood Angels already have an Honour Guard and they are entirely different from Sanguinary Guard
BA-Honour Guard is also completely different from SM-Honour Guard..
Yes, completely different...except that they share a statline, weapon types, and armor save, and differ primarily in a couple extraneous wargear options most people don't bother to take.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 16:01:06
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:01:10
Subject: Re:What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
So in short they should rip up the book, force BA-players to buy the Codex: Space Marines and then try to make up for the complete rape of the Codex by bringing out another 50 dollar Supplement that tries to make up for their mistakes?
Yes, simple enough no?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:01:25
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
|
Vaktathi wrote: Anpu42 wrote:And all of that Marginalizes yet another chapter like the Black Templars.
When literally everything that made them different is still there?
Besides, BT haven't been marginalized, they have access to a greater array of units and weapons and options than ever before, still retain their "unique" troops unit and some special rules. They lost some things, but who's to say they'd have retained them in a new codex either? Very little from that 4E era survived intact.
This might not mean a lot to some, but Listen to the Pre-6th edition Black Templar Players vs. the new ones.
The Old: "I am Playing my Black Templars using [C: SM, enter Chapter or Space Wolves]"
New: Wait as far as I know there are no new ones or at least I have not seen one.
I have yet to meet a Single Back Templar Player using Chapter Tactics: Black Templars
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:02:36
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
gwarsh41 wrote: BrotherOfBone wrote:I personally think we should cut down on big codices and have minidexes, and then a fluff book for anyone interested, similar to the current rulebook.
So you could just buy the rules if that's all you wanted, or you could just buy the fluff. They'd also be smaller, easier to carry and just plain nice, and you could then justify owning more of them because the cost would be dropped.
I think it would be an amazing idea to include a minidex, similar to the mini rulebook, in the army boxes.
As for the codex, they should stay the same. Why and how would making a giant dictionary sized marine book every be useful? Oh you want to play marines? Here, buy this +$150 codex that is 400 pages long. Lug that thing around and have fun flipping through it every time your opponent asks you a question. That would just be terrible. Why change things when they work?
I love how the people who complain loudest about GW's policies are the people who advocate the stupidest policies of all. Combining all the marine dexes into one would a)as you say, jack up the price of said codex b)Piss an aweful lot of people off and c)Drastically reduce the variety and bredth of the lore.
It's fine to be annoyed that your own faction/regiment hasn't gotten some love, but claiming that huge numbers - possible a majority? - of hobbyists should have their hobby crippled just "because", doesn't sit well with me.
It's the logical equivilent of me being annoyed that there are no guard mini-dexes...and yet there are not one, but TWO eldar codexes! And there are probably as many eldar combined as there are in a single regiment of guard, plus they have a suppliment AS WELL! GW must just hate the Imperial Guard I guess, or they hate getting my money. See, internet hate is easy when you know how
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:26:46
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
Netherlands
|
Not going to happen. Simple enough?
This change would:
a) Charge at least 50% of their playerbase more without gaining any benefits.
b) Do nothing to increase the quality or release rate of Xenos-Codices.
c) Do not give them a lot more profit, since there is a limit to how expensive they can make a Codex.
d) Piss of a gigantic portion of the players.
And why? So players can still decide not to make homebrewn Chapters just like they haven't been doing that in the last years despite there being so many options already available.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/08/18 16:29:16
Subject: What codidces should be combined?
|
 |
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
|
Kangodo wrote:Not going to happen. Simple enough?
This change would:
a) Charge at least 50% of their playerbase more without gaining any benefits.
b) Do nothing to increase the quality or release rate of Xenos-Codices.
c) Do not give them a lot more profit, since there is a limit to how expensive they can make a Codex.
d) Piss of a gigantic portion of the players.
And why? So players can still decide not to make homebrewn Chapters just like they haven't been doing that in the last years despite there being so many options already available.
A and C contradict each other, and they would gain more through supplements, also unlike him I don't particularly care about homebrew chapters.
|
|
 |
 |
|