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Hi Everyone,

I've been away from 40k since 2nd edition came out, but am now just getting back into the game after a 10 year break. As such, I am entering my first 'beginners level' tournament in a few weeks in Hong Kong, and was thinking about entering the following list. Any advice on how to improve it or scrap it and start again would be most welcome!

Tournament rules will be Eternal War missions only, on 4'x4' boards, 1000 pt limit with no Apocalypse rules, but escalation and stronghold are in. 4 turn limit.

Army selection wise I am pretty limited, as most of my models are SM Infantry and I only have about 2000 pts in total to chose from. Rules are pretty strict to, models have to be what they say they are (i.e. that meltagun is a meltagun , not a combi-melta )

Space Marines (Iron Hands - Chapter Rules)

HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(attached to Sterguard unit below)
HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(attached to Sterguard unit below)

TP - Scout x 5, Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire (66 pts)
TP - Scout x 5, Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire (66 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, w/drop pod (105 pts)

HV - Devastator Squad x 5, las-cannon, Missile launcher w/flakk (115 pts)

EL - Sternguard x5, combi-melta, combi-flamer, drop pod (175 pts)
EL - Sternguard x5, combi-plasma, combi-grav, drop pod (175 pts)
EL - Dreadnaught, twin linked autocannon (105 pts)

Total Points 997

Strategy wise, I was obviously thinking of going for an alpha strike with the 'mini tank' units (libby & sternguards with special ammo), while deploying the scouts over objectives. The dread would probably just pin down one flank and soak up some fire, with the Devastators deployed somewhere in the middle with good lines of fire. The tactical unit will come in and help secure objectives later too.

Most of this strategy I have picked up form reading the battle reports on here, but since I haven't played a game in over 10 years (let lone a tourney!) I would really appreciate any sage advice you guys might have to help further my cause!

Cheers

Iapedus

Ok, so I have been thinking about this list over the weekend, and feel that maybe my Alpha Strike units don't have enough pop? Also, the extra scout unit may be a bit much for a 1000 point game, and the dread feels a bit superfluous out there on the flank. How about maybe recycling the points for the above and the DEV. squad, to beef up the Sternguards and give me some more tactical squads spread around with AA cover, as below

HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(hit tank, attached to Sterguard unit below)
HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(hit tank, attached to Sterguard unit below)

TP - Scout x 5, 2 x sniper rifle (57 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, drop pod (105 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, ML with Flakk (95 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, ML with Flakk (95 pts)

EL - Sternguard x7, combi-melta x 3 , drop pod (229 pts)
EL - Sternguard x7, combi-melta x 3 , drop pod (229 pts)

Total Points 1000

Is this an improvement? I'm a bit worried about a lack of AT, but I guess that's what the alpha strike is for right?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, having read a few of the posts on here, I have had yet another rethink

HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(Warlond, attached to Sternguard unit below)
HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour (85 pts)

TP - Scout x 5, 1 x sniper rifle (56 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, ML with Flakk (95 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, ML with Flakk (95 pts)

EL - Sternguard x7, combi-plasma x 3 , drop pod (229 pts)
EL - Legion of the Damned, combi-melta/meltagun/multimelta (155 pts)
EL - Dread, Twin linked AC x 2 (120 pts)

FA - Landspeeder, Heavy Flamer, Multimelta (70 pts)

Total Points 1000

I think this gives me a bit more flexibility - the LotD are like a cheaper, late arriving alpha-strike, while the rifleman dread give a bit of fire support and the landspeeder a bit of surprise Antitank from deepstrike. This set up also reduces the number of drop pods - a bonus as I only have one model and don't really want to splurge on two more....

Better or worse?

Hmmm, the experience thus far is not unlike talking to oneself in a darkened room.....

Flak missiles really suck. I would advise against taking them because they don't do their job well.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Flak missiles really suck. I would advise against taking them because they don't do their job well.

Are they that bad? Currently they are my only provision for AA - would I be better off just snap firing Krak but taking more MLs to compensate?

Flakk missiles are terrible in all aspects, they are weak, not twin linked, have no interceptor and are expensive.

If you feel that you need dedicated anti air, then a storm talon would serve you better.

If you are playing with FW stuff, then use your dread as a mortis, it only costs 5 more points than your loadout, and gains skyfire/intercept if it stays still.

late arriving alpha-strike

I believe this is just called a normal strike lol.

I know some people like the HF/MM speeder combo, personally I don't. I'd set it up to be great at 1 job, rather than mediocre at 2. Double MM for tanks, double HF for suicide DS flaming.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

late arriving alpha-strike

I believe this is just called a normal strike lol.

Ah yes, of course...

Storm talon would be good but is not an option as I don't currently have the model. The tournament also doesn't allow FW either so no mortis either.

I might have to just accept a lack of AA cover, recycle the 20 pts, and upgrade to a Double MM Speeder option and meltabombs for the tactical squads.

Are there any SM ground weapons with Intercept? I can only see Quad gun, but again don't have the model

Based on the list you provided, I think there are some simple fixes that could make it more effective.

If you're looking for some late-game anti-vehicle, the Legion of the Damned are great, and the load-out you have is perfect. You could also trade the fast attack land speeder and existing Scout squad for a Land Speeder Storm and Scout Squad for 115 points that brings a multimelta, combi-melta, and melta bombs... pretty nice late game surprise that has to be dealt with, and brings two Objective Secured units to the game.

The flakk missiles aren't too great... if you're running Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics they may be ok on a full dev squad since they have tank hunter... but otherwise I'd leave them out; for the points, you can get better AA like a Stormtalon or Stalker/Hunter.

I'd try to get your Tac Squads in transports to protect them.

I like the idea of an alpha striking Sternguard unit, but either fill out the squad to combat squad, or plan on them dying right away if they'll be primarily unsupported.

Ok, great - thanks for all the advice, I think the list I am going to go with is this:

HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour & Storm Shield (95 pts)
(Warlond, attached to Sternguard unit below)
HQ - Librarian w/Term. Armour (85 pts)

TP - Scout x 5, 1 x sniper (56 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, ML (85 pts)
TP - Tactical Squad x 5, PC (85 pts)

EL - Sternguard x7, combi-plasma x 2 , combi-grav x 2, drop pod (229 pts)
EL - Legion of the Damned, combi-melta/meltagun/multimelta (155 pts)
EL - Dread, Twin linked AC x 2 (120 pts)

FA - Landspeeder, 2 x Multimelta (80 pts)

Total Points 1000

I would love to do Stormtalons / Landspeeder Storm / Razorbacks for Tacs, but again I am limited by what models I have

Will let you know how it gets on!

Only noticed your thread in two days.

I really like the idear of the LotD, the ignore cover melta weapons are great against jinking save skimmer tanks of Eldar, Tau, and Necron, and 3++ they have provided some decent resistance against Tau interceptor fire, since I am anticipating there will be Tau EWO and IA armed Reptide. The only problem they may have is your reserve rolling.

I am also a fan of drop pod sternguard, but I don't think combi-grav on them is a good idear, since its comparaitive short range and savlo 2/3 rule, the foot-slogging soilders can't maximize its fire power unless gained relentless. imho, you may consider switch the combi-grav with combi-plasma of combi-flamer, the latter one is used to clearing hordes or save themselves if 20+ Chaos Cultists try to tie your squad as the flamer overwatch could thin them. If you fancy grav weaponary, I propose you use biker squad to gain 30 inch threat range (12 inch movement and 18 inch range) and 3 shots per gun.

Imo, its better o upgrade at least one of Libraian to ML2. Even one more dice in the warp charge poll may count.

It may be a good idea to arm the Sgt. with melta bomb, just in case some monsters or heavy walkers charge into your squads and you at least have sth decent to deal with it. It will be a great idea to bring a "cheap" Rhino for Tatical Squads, that not only have more protection (especially against the Hell-turkey) but also provide mobility to challenge opponent's mid field objective and not just sit on your own backfield.

Cheers



Automatically Appended Next Post:
We may have registered the same tournament in Hong Kong. Since I've studied your current lists, I am opening my own to you, and I am also concerning which list to bring on, hope that would be fair. I hope you or other veteran players would kindly give some comment.

1. Low model count all out list
HQ - Tigirius (165 pt) (attach to Sternguard below)

TP - Tactical Squad, 10men, HB, Flamer, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Rhino (205 pt) (will be combat squaded)
TP - Tactical Squad, 5men, Plasma Gun (85 pt) (ride in Stormraven)

EL - Sternguard, 5men, 4 combi-melta, 1 combi-flamer, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Droppod (210 pt)

HS - Vindicator, Seige Shield (135 pt)
HS - Stormraven, TLLC, TLMM (200 pt)

Total 1000pt

2. Air-ground cooperation
HQ - Tigirius (165 pt) (attach to Sternguard below)

TP - Tactical Squad, 10men, HB, Flamer, Auspex, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Rhino (210 pt) (will be combat squaded)
TP - Tactical Squad, 5men, Plasma Cannon (85 pt)

EL - Sternguard, 7men, 4 combi-melta, 1 combi-flamer, 1 Meltagun, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Droppod (264 pt)

HS - Vindicator, Seige Shield (135 pt)
HS - Stormtalon, TLLC (140 pt)

Total 999 pt

3. Iron-clad T2 assult
HQ - Tigirius (165 pt)

TP - Tactical Squad, 10 men, HB, Flamer, Auspex, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Rhino (210 pt) (will be combat squaded)
TP - Tactical Squad, 5 men, Plasma Cannon (85 pt)
TP - Scout Squad, 5 men, 4 Sniper Rifle, 1 ML, 5 camo cloak (85pt)

EL - Iron-clad Dreadnought, Iron assult laucher, HF, SB, Droppod (180pt)

HS - Vindicator, Seige Shield (135 pt)
HS - Stormtalon, TLLC (140 pt)

Total 1000 pt

4. Long range boys on the ground
HQ - Tigirius (165 pt) (attach to Devastors below)

TP - Tactical Squad, 10 men, HB, Flamer, Auspex, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Rhino (210 pt) (will be combat squaded)
TP - Tactical Squad, 5 men, Plasma Cannon (85 pt)

EL - Sternguard, 6 men, 4 combi-melta, 1 combi-flamer, Melta Bomb on Sgt., Droppod (232 pt)

HS - Devastor Squad, 7men, 2 LC, 2 ML (168 pt)
HS - Stormtalon, TLLC (140 pt)

Total 1000 pt

Iapedus, I also send you PM, hope we could have a drill game and have next iteration of army list according to the battle performance of the army before the tournament. Hope we will have fun.
Cheers, praise the Emperor and Primarchs on the tabletop

I found an error in the OP list, models with terminator armour can't go in a drop pod. So taking a sternguard squad with terminator librarian can not use the drop pod.

The drop pod could arrive empty thou, to contest objectives.

flodihn wrote:
I found an error in the OP list, models with terminator armour can't go in a drop pod. So taking a sternguard squad with terminator librarian can not use the drop pod.

The drop pod could arrive empty thou, to contest objectives.

Really? I cant find that rule in the codex anywhere - can you point me to it? I thought the only issue was the Term. Armour being bulky, which meant I had to give it two spaces in the drop pod?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Only noticed your thread in two days.

Thanks for your list info, will post my reply on your thread instead of here

For Space marines to do well they must maximise the utility of their chapter tactics. Iron Hands would do well with lots of armor with IWND.

The idea of 3 Ironclad Dreds in pods and Tacticals in pods should put the fear of the Emperor in your opponents.

Example:
90 Librarian in Terminator Armor
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
172 (8) Tactical Marines w/ Meltagun, Combimelta, Droppod
195 (10) Tactical Marines w. Flamer, Combiflamer, Droppod


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use Ironclads to kill vehicles and infantry, whilst the Tacticals and Warlord are safely in reserve...to hold objectives later in the game. Hopefully the pods end up close to objectives to score where they are...

 Madness! wrote:
For Space marines to do well they must maximise the utility of their chapter tactics. Iron Hands would do well with lots of armor with IWND.

The idea of 3 Ironclad Dreds in pods and Tacticals in pods should put the fear of the Emperor in your opponents.

Example:
90 Librarian in Terminator Armor
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
180 Ironclad w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Dropod
172 (8) Tactical Marines w/ Meltagun, Combimelta, Droppod
195 (10) Tactical Marines w. Flamer, Combiflamer, Droppod


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use Ironclads to kill vehicles and infantry, whilst the Tacticals and Warlord are safely in reserve...to hold objectives later in the game. Hopefully the pods end up close to objectives to score where they are...

Yeah, really like the look of this list, but again I am limited by models (short by about 3 ironclads and 4 drop pods ). Still, one for the future maybe...

Also, I know what you mean with the Chap. Tacs, but other than IF for the bolter drill or Ultra for the doctrines, I think Iron Hands will give me a better overall buff and make the army more resilient