Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's something I have been using on and off for a few games. I'm optimistically calling it the "shadowstar" and hoping that catches on (naming something on the internet would look great on a resume ). I'm curious what people think of it. I honestly am leaning towards an assessment of "fun, but not worth the points" in the vast majority of cases.

- Shadowsun (2x super shield drones)
- 3x XV9, burst cannons, stims

The basic idea is that you have a majority toughness 5 unit with stealth and shrouded. 2 of the models have a 3++ and 3 of them have a 3+ and FNP on T5. Shadowsun...she hides in the middle. To aggravate things more the unit has defensive grenades and hit and run on I4.

The unit puts out 2 BS5 melta shots that get precision shots on a 5-6 and 24 twin linked BS3 S5 AP5 shots with an 18" range. Shadowsun is usually warlord as well so the unit can move 3d6 in the assault phase.

As for support systems on the suits the stims are the obvious choice if you have points. I usually run the advanced targeting system to keep them inexpensive, and 24 twin linked shots that have the precision shot special rule is a hilarious thing to see. I've also been considering the counterfire defense system both because the unit will usually be close to the enemy anyway, and because the only thing more annoying than a bunch of twin linked overwatch shots is a bunch of twin linked overwatch shots that hit on 5s (although not getting to shoot both guns in overwatch would make that plan significantly less awesome).

I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this. Anybody else have any thoughts on the combination? It's a lot of dakka, and pretty mobile dakka too, on a reasonably resilient platform. The fact it costs 475 points though... I feel like this unit would have to work extremely hard to pull its weight.

I've long wanted a shadowsun model to test stuff like this. The fact that the units majority tough 5 completely flew over my head till now actually!

Before I was thinking to just mass out 6 more gun or marker drones and throw a drone controller on the crisis. I think the extra drones would ultimately make for more durability and TLbs3 markers would be nice too, but ofc you're throwing another 72 points into an already pricey unit and dropping toughness to 4.

Glad to hear somebody else likes shadowsun though ! I think its a cool idea.

Yes, its though to remove.

But you can find better uses for a whole 475 points.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes, its though to remove.

But you can find better uses for a whole 475 points.

I kind of figured that. That's basically 2 riptides worth of points investment in a unit that doesn't really kill enough hard targets to make it back. Not that I'm actually that much of a Riptide fan anymore to be honest. Call me dumb but I just can't make that model work for me. I can't remember a game where it actually earned its points back.

Too many points in resilience and not enough in firepower IMO.

2x 3 piranhas; one lot with burst and the other with fusion would do a similar job for just over half the points. They are paper planes but have more manoeuvrability and a 30" effective range.

2 riptides is more effective for the same points. I'm not sure why you can't get them to earn their points back. I've gone second against double riptide armies and had half my army decimated before I even got to move any models. When I did, the tides had jumped back out of LOS.

I have always loved shadowsun (bought her metal model years ago) but have never really used her other than in fluff lists, and this idea sounds enticing but not for the amount of points you could invest into so many good tau units.

if GW would word it properly so there wasnt any confusion on if infiltrating ICs confer the rule to noninfiltrating units...i would take her every game with my broadsides lol. Per the infiltrate rule, ICs cant join and infiltrate unless they have it but it says NOTHING about the other way around involving ICs...even though infiltrate only requires 1 model to have it.

Some places rule its legal, most dont. Probably because of shadowsun lol.

Toofast wrote:
2 riptides is more effective for the same points. I'm not sure why you can't get them to earn their points back. I've gone second against double riptide armies and had half my army decimated before I even got to move any models. When I did, the tides had jumped back out of LOS.

I have had horrible luck with the going first roll, I can't remember going first in the last 5-6 games I've played. That combined with my opponents hate for markerlights may have something to do with it.

I used to do great things with the riptide, then my opponents realized how important markerlights are to success with that particular model. That is my main gripe about the Riptide. It's just so dang needy for markerlights if it wants to be at all effective at killing things.I try to run a tau army that's about a 7-8 on the shooting effectiveness scale, and markerlights are a nice bonus that can take it up to 10. Riptides are about a 4 on that scale, and if you dump markerlights into them they go to 11. By this point I just take a squad of "distraction pathfinders" and set them somewhere central with cover then let my opponents shoot their entire army at them first turn and waste way too much firepower killing something that doesn't actually have any offensive output.

Basically my argument about the Riptide being overrated boils down to the fact that a gets hot blast weapon on a BS3 platform is a horrible investment without some other way to minimize scatter. The way the math works out a template will scatter on average 2.7 inches at BS 3 (taking into account chance of rolling a hit). The large blast template is 5" across, and usually a squad I am shooting at will just barely fit under the template (for instance after a deep strike or disembark from transport). So, on average, you won't actually hit anything since the template scatters more than half its diameter. I am not a fan of paying for a weapon that will be completely ineffective over 50% of the time.

TL;DR: Riptide not nearly shooty enough without significant markerlight support. Opponents smart enough to kill markerlights first. Riptide not an optimal choice in my meta or with my tactics.

i used to have markerlight issues but since i swapped over to buffmander tanking for a crisis team toting missilepods and marker drones i really havent had an issue. So long as i dont do something stupid like let the commander get too close to a JOTWW bastard i rarely have to worry about that unit and it not only kills things reliably but splitfire marks the crap out of something for both riptide and broadside unit to obliterate....even though i rarely need both units to kill something lol.

Slightly off topic but relevant to dementedwombat's last post

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i used to have markerlight issues but since i swapped over to buffmander tanking for a crisis team toting missilepods and marker drones i really havent had an issue. So long as i dont do something stupid like let the commander get too close to a JOTWW bastard i rarely have to worry about that unit and it not only kills things reliably but splitfire marks the crap out of something for both riptide and broadside unit to obliterate....even though i rarely need both units to kill something lol.

Slightly off topic but relevant to dementedwombat's last post

Yeah, I'm wandering off topic, but it's still Tau tactics and vaguely related to the OP (why not bring a riptide) so I feel ok about it.

We will see how I feel about markerlights once my Tetras come in... 40 points for a Tetra with sensor spines solves both my durability issue and my mobility issue that I have with pathfinders.

Apparently I did not hit send before, but use the XV9s with fusions cascades and it starts to be come a cost effective heavy armor hunter.

apparently i misread the OP and thought he was talking about XV8s, this explains why I missed the T5. I thought Shadowsun's command drone gave TL weapons but its only reroll 1s. Yeah I was never impressed with the XV9 rules. Ever since since the dex update, they seem pretty weak to me.

THE MODELS however are beautiful and make great replacements for the standard XV8 models. Personally I want to eventually replace ALL of my crisis suits with FW stuff.....someday i'll win the lotto =).

Yeah man you're definitely better of putting her with standard crisis suits and massing drones for durability.(12 points per 2+ cover wound is ridiculously cost effective)

If you want fancy looking suits, use the XV89, not the XV9. they are on a whole other scale than XV8. they are about broadside size.