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It is my understanding that a model with multiple saves must alkways take his best save. Is there any rules that apply this same principle when rolling to wound with grav weapons?

For example, Eldar Windrider Jetbikes have a 3+ armour save, but are also listed as having Mesh Armour. (5+)

My understanding is that while a model might have multiple sources of armor saves, that for game purposes "the model's armor save" is whatever the best currently is, and so you would use that for graviton wound results. Not super sure about that, though - the graviton entry in the USR section just says to roll against the armor save, it doesn't explicitly say anything about using the highest.

(to say nothing about units with multiple armor saves)

Wish I was at home so I could get the exact wording on the multiple saves rule.

Must be the best armor save.
Do you realize the shenanigans if it is not the case?:
" my warboss has base t-shirt save before taking is mega armor, so roll 6+ to wound thx " lol.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Wish I was at home so I could get the exact wording on the multiple saves rule.

With my very brief look all I've found is it talking about when attempting to save a wound you must always take the best save.

Looking up the Graviton rule its doesn't say anything about what to do when a model has multiple armor saves.

It's just another situation of more special rules not taking into account all the possible situations they have created and the ambuguity of the term "best". I'm surprised we still don't see a thread arguing about is a model with a 4+ save and a 5++ re-rollable forced to take 4+ save even though it is more likely to fail but rules wise is the best save.

Are you sure that 3+ save isn't from Jink? I'm not familiar with Eldar "Windriders" but thats what Jet Bikes get?


If so Grav would go against their actual armour value right?

The 3+ os NOT due to jink. THe bike grants a 3+ armour save.

You always have the benefit of taking your best save. When asked "what is my armour save" for the purposes of grav weapons, it is always your best save.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The 3+ os NOT due to jink. THe bike grants a 3+ armour save.

You always have the benefit of taking your best save. When asked "what is my armour save" for the purposes of grav weapons, it is always your best save.

QFT. I had a guy actually try and tell me I had to use the original unaltered armor save. Told him didn't care what he said, I'm wounding him on the modified save. He huffed n puffed n lost.

Just to clarify I would not actually play this way, just being currious.

But is there any rules support for "taking your best save = wounding on your best save" ???

Probably not, but it's a case where the RAI is crystal clear.

The model has the advantage of using the best available save.

Based on using the most advantageous save against grav weapons you'd choose the 6+ save.

As we have no rules on how to use grav weapons in this case, it is not crystal clear. There are no rules to cover the situation. The rules for making armor saves have nothing to do with the situation, but if your group wants to make their house rule around it then that's is their prerogative.

Incorrect, don't make rules up.

The best available save is the 3+, as the rule book tells you that better is lower.

Exactly like a 3+ is better than a 4++ rerollable.

3+ is 66% chance to save.
4++ rerollable is 75% chance to save.

Even though you are less likely to make the save with the 3+ it is the better save.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Incorrect, don't make rules up.

The best available save is the 3+, as the rule book tells you that better is lower.

And that rule is used when? oh ya, when you roll for your armor save.

"The model has the advantage of using the best available save. " is a rule. Again you accuse me of making up rules that are actual rules. Have you read the rule book? Do you have one? It's even in bold so it stands out on the page being the essence of the rule.

Now with how your are suggesting it be played are you giving the advantage to the shooting model, or the model that is targeted?

And when rolling to wound is it better to have a T4, or a T6? Which one is more advantageous to the model being shot at?

Again: what is the BEST AVAILABLE SAVE? The one the rule book defines as best


The rule book states lower is best. Or did you,a again, ignore that?

Not your made up "what is best according to the situation I am in", which of course has zero rule support, again.

Quick question (as I don't play or have the Eldar codex) - Is "Mesh Armour" an armour save, invulnerable save or other?

I ask because Graviton states clearly wounds on Armour save (not simply best 'save'), while the rules are very consistant in differentiating between the various saves in the USR's (armour vs cover vs invulnerable).

Armour save. The model has two saves, but only ever uses the better one

Rorschach9 wrote:
Quick question (as I don't play or have the Eldar codex) - Is "Mesh Armour" an armour save, invulnerable save or other?

I ask because Graviton states clearly wounds on Armour save (not simply best 'save'), while the rules are very consistant in differentiating between the various saves in the USR's (armour vs cover vs invulnerable).
[/quote

Armour.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Armour save. The model has two saves, but only ever uses the better one

Well that seems to be quite pointless for it to have then when the rules state you use the best save. /scratcheshead

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Again: what is the BEST AVAILABLE SAVE? The one the rule book defines as best


The rule book states lower is best. Or did you,a again, ignore that?

Not your made up "what is best according to the situation I am in", which of course has zero rule support, again.

Nope, it's just irrelevant when it comes to grav weapons.

made up? Nope, but I can tell now that you don't own a rule book, if you did you would see the rule I quoted. Which is just as applicable as the rules you are trying to use which has zero relevance to the situation at hand.

As we are not rolling to save at this point, the rules for making saves do not apply here. All that is needed to find the armor save is to look at the profile and use the save listed.

No, sirlynch, you're making gak up, or just not applying. See tht rule you quoted? NoteBESt. What does the rule book define as best?

Before making more baseless accusations, answer that

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, sirlynch, you're making gak up, or just not applying. See tht rule you quoted? NoteBESt. What does the rule book define as best?

Before making more baseless accusations, answer that

Quit projecting your own Gak onto me. clearly you need to calm down and read the rules for a while as you can't even type straight right now. Before I answer any more of your questions, why don't you tell me where I found the rules quote I'm using?

You've yet to answer a question. More made up gak

You made up that the model takes the most advantageous save. That is a lie. Try to avoid that.

Guys please keep in mind the debate is about the wargaming hobby and address each other with the courtesy of gentlemen. Rule Number One around here is Be Polite after all. Thanks!

I'd be fine with it.
However, when i shot them later i would expect that 5+ to still be in use rather than the 3+

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You've yet to answer a question. More made up gak

You made up that the model takes the most advantageous save. That is a lie. Try to avoid that.

To see how wrong nos is on this topic, let's all open our rule books to pg 38, models with more than one save. And read the bold print "a model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but has the advantage of always using the best available.

It's a rule, not a lie, I await your apology and concession.

sirlynchmob wrote:The model has the advantage of using the best available save.

Based on using the most advantageous save against grav weapons you'd choose the 6+ save.

As we have no rules on how to use grav weapons in this case, it is not crystal clear. There are no rules to cover the situation. The rules for making armor saves have nothing to do with the situation, but if your group wants to make their house rule around it then that's is their prerogative.

sirlynchmob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You've yet to answer a question. More made up gak

You made up that the model takes the most advantageous save. That is a lie. Try to avoid that.

To see how wrong nos is on this topic, let's all open our rule books to pg 38, models with more than one save. And read the bold print "a model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but has the advantage of always using the best available.

It's a rule, not a lie, I await your apology and concession.

sirlynchmob wrote:The model has the advantage of using the best available save.

Based on using the most advantageous save against grav weapons you'd choose the 6+ save.

As we have no rules on how to use grav weapons in this case, it is not crystal clear. There are no rules to cover the situation. The rules for making armor saves have nothing to do with the situation, but if your group wants to make their house rule around it then that's is their prerogative.

So you didn't make up that "...based on using the most advantageous save...choose"?

Odd, as the quote above states otherwise

You also gavent, yet, answered a question. What is the BESt save, always?

When taking armour saves you use the best (ie lowest) save available.

What does this have to do with graviton?

All graviton says is the number required to wound is equal to the model's armour save.


Disclaimer: Graviton says a bit more than that, but the rest is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I was drawing attention to sirlynch stating you take the most advantageous save, which is made up.

From the heading 'Armour Save (Sv)' in the 'Models & Units' section of the rulebook:

Unlike other characteristics, the lower an Armour Save is, the better.

We have a rulebook definition of what would be the 'best' Armour Save, and it's not always synonymous with 'most advantageous'.