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Wow, okay...I am right but wrong. I give up.

Nurglings are amazing and a unit of nurglings with a herald to give some love taps on Sv2+ is great. I think that the locus of virulence would be the best one. Combined with an etherblade on a herald seems like it would be the best damage output (and that is the locus on epi). That would actually be a tremendous number of wounds protecting your heralds who can deal out the actual damage. Combined with biomancy on the heralds that could actually be a pretty scary melee unit. When I previously ran this (a grand total of 2 times, too many toys to play with I guess) I ran it with epi to buff the units around it and the nurglings to give him extra wounds. Opponents had to put an inordinate amount of firepower into killing the setup and the rest of my army was free to do their jobs. The only bad thing was that I was somewhat light on mobility and ObjSec scoring. I think a herald and nurgling unit inside would probably be much better.

When I played against the Nurglings in a land raider i was surprised at the amount of attacks they put out. And without a super cc unit you just cant chew through the wounds.

So running CSM - what units should I take from Daemons as allies? What in the dex is worth allying for?

 ansacs wrote:
Wow, okay...I am right but wrong. I give up.

Nurglings are amazing and a unit of nurglings with a herald to give some love taps on Sv2+ is great. I think that the locus of virulence would be the best one. Combined with an etherblade on a herald seems like it would be the best damage output (and that is the locus on epi). That would actually be a tremendous number of wounds protecting your heralds who can deal out the actual damage. Combined with biomancy on the heralds that could actually be a pretty scary melee unit. When I previously ran this (a grand total of 2 times, too many toys to play with I guess) I ran it with epi to buff the units around it and the nurglings to give him extra wounds. Opponents had to put an inordinate amount of firepower into killing the setup and the rest of my army was free to do their jobs. The only bad thing was that I was somewhat light on mobility and ObjSec scoring. I think a herald and nurgling unit inside would probably be much better.

Yeah I can't find it anywhere either and no one has come up with it not being a legal thing to do , I'm going to reread all of it again but yeah.. I think it's perfectly legal. I want to say " No you can't do that" , but I think that it really was a rule that somehow got "lost in the shuffle" of editions.

I've never seen anyone else put Nurglings in lists inside Landraiders, until it got mentioned in this thread because I always assumed it was a illegal move and there was in fact a "swarms cannot go inside transports rule". Previously Nurglings were listed as "unit type: Swarms" or something to that effect and that just stuck in my head.

I'd say that Epidemus for me is a little to expensive for my tastes, I'd rather try to keep things less than 600 total for the whole thing. Plus Palaquins take up 3 Spots!

Problem I find is that if you give them Palaquin it drops the number you can get inside that transport, so I'd rather just go with 2 cheaper Heralds rather than 1 w/ a Palaquin.

Herald of Nurgle w/ Aether Blade, Lesser Locus, Level 2 115
Herald ot Nurgle w/ Greater Aether Blade, Locus , Level 1 110
8 Nurgling Swarms 120
Total : 345

That'd be on the charge with out Iron Arm or Warp Speed

4 ST5 AP2 , 6s wound on 2+ that are poisoned , so they'd get a reroll versus T4 or Less on those 2+s, plus reroll 1 miss because of Master Crafted
4 ST6 AP2, 6s wound on 2+ that are poisoned, so they'd get a reroll on those 2++ T5 or less, plus reroll 1 miss because of Master Crafted
40 Attacks ST3 6s hit cause 2+ wounds that are poisoned
32 Wounds

Landraider w/ Dirge Caster
235


Also I'll check but I don't think that Heralds of Nurgle lose their Plaguesword. So if a Walker charges, you could in fact glance it I think I'll check but I don't see where it says you lose Plaguesword.
I'd take both Locus as that way losing one Herald doesn't lose the unit that ability. With 3 Rolls on the Chart Odds of Getting Iron Arm or Endurance is pretty boss. I put the Lesser Gift with the higher level as he has a higher chance for Iron Arm.

Super Unit for me would be

Herald of Nurgle w/ Palaquin of Nurgle, Lesser Loci. Greater Aether 105
Herald of Nurgle w/ Aether Blade, Lesser Loci, Level 2
Herald of Nurgle w/ Greater Aether Blade , Loci, Level 1
Herald of Nurgle w/ Greater Aether Blade, Loci Level 1
4 Nurgling Swarms

Total : 505

That'd be on the charge
9 ST6 AP 2 Attacks , 6s wound on 2+ (poisoned), Reroll 2 Misses
8 ST5 AP 2 Attacks, Reroll 2 Misses
16 Attacks 6s , 2+ Wound


Probably something like that, if I am spamming Landraiders , (I have 2 dunno if I'd go for a more than 3 Landraider list) but If I was going for 3 I'd try to keep my whole total to 1100 or less. That way I'd have some points left over.

Hrmmm

Don't know what a spam unit army like that would look like though. Also important to not forget that Heralds of Nurgle automatically get the Primaris if their Psykers and that things a AP3 Template that's Poisoned 4+. That'll kill bikers dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
So running CSM - what units should I take from Daemons as allies? What in the dex is worth allying for?

It depends on what you are running but I'd say top picks for me would be.
Psychic Ability : Getting Heralds of Tzeentch gives you Precognition as it gives access to Divination.
Soul Grinders are totally worth the investment to ally in.
Being able to get 4 more HQs that are decently priced , and a cheap troop that's objective secured are pretty amazing.

Herald of Slaanesh w/ Steed , accompanied by Seekers is a super fast reaching 2nd turn pretty much 90% of the time HtH unit.

Herald of Nurgle w/ Greater Aether , Lesser Loci , Accompanied by Plaguebeares is a great thing to put behind a Aegis w/ a Quad Gun, Heralds of Nurgle are BS5.

Herald of Tzeentch Lvl 2 w/ 12 Pink Horrors , additional Warp Charge, and can just sit back an reliably summon a unit each turn or possibly get possession and turn into a Greater Daemon. Can also man Aegis Defense Lines.

My top units are
Herald Units
Plaguebearers
Daemonettes
Screamers
Seekers

I usually go with whatever my army is lacking, if I'm lacking a Objective unit, I go plague beaerers, if I want more HtH I go Daemonettes, If I want more Warp I go with a small in expensive squad of Pink Horrors and a Herald. It's hard to say find what your lacking like cheap Objective secured troops and take them.

Or a unit that outflanks.

Greater Daemon of course, that flies.

I mean what's your army lacking that you think would be best shored up with the ally of Daemon is the way I look at it.

Daemons provide Cheap low cost good Hth troops and powerful low cost characters, along with cheap fast moving troops like beasts etc..

Plus, Soul Grinders.

ive been recently running a pseudo "jump circus" list. consists of belakor, Bloodthirster, khorne prince with grim. i have a large khornedog unit with herald taking the grim buff. then i use shrouding to give my fmcs a 2+ cover. its working really well for me atm, and using an idea from azreal13, give the thirster the blade of blood, and eternal blade, to make him a train wreck on the table. I'm absolutely loving this set up.

I've been really wanting to try that tactic out but just don't have enough FMCs yet.

My only problem with that is you have to do weird Detachments as Belakor doesn't unlock Daemon Princes for H. Support choices. I wonder how that'd do if you did something like that plus add in a Landraider filled with Nurglings and Heralds.

It'd certainly be a small army but that'd be pretty interesting.

Look something like

Greater Daemon
Heralds of Nurgle
Troops
Nurglings
H. Support
Daemon Princes

Allied
Belakor
Troops
Cultists (or whatever)
H. Support
Land Raider


The thing with the Land Raider Nurgling tactic i think CSM Sorcerer w/ Last Memory and deepstriking would be really close to perfect to go along with that.

yea belakor doesn't unlock princess in heavy support for DoC, but he does fill the required HQ for some CSM allies!

i really want to try a tzeentch theme list with lords of change Belakor and screamers, shrouding all of it for mass 2+ cover saves. i don't have the models though, being a khorne/nurgle player myself.

its really weird playing chaos right now, there's so much crap in the two books, but there's some really amazing stuff too.

I'm loving all the different great ideas, and the combination of the books, supplements, and dataslates makes for a very interesting time to play chaos.

its very important i think to look at all the chaos as a whole now.

my personal biggest complaint right now, is the damn demonic instability rule, only because it keeps our ICs from joining each others books units... we're battle brothers. the only ones that can't super friend it up. its dumb.

Just this morning, I realised that Stubborn will work for daemonic instability, so while not making it an auto pass, it would make many units extraordinarily tough to shift.

The only way I've thought of to get it so far though is the Imperial Defence Line.

Any other thoughts?

EDIT

Ignore, the wording on Stubborn is different to what I thought, and DI isn't a Morale check.

Yes I had that as well, but now that they are Battle Brothers, I believe that they can use the Leadership of someone else if you get a bubble up. Previously I don't believe this was the case, it may have been though. So if there is something in CSM that allows a increase in Leadership or allows to use that models Leadership value i think you could use it for Daemonic Instability.

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's just a shame the NDPs come with the GUO tax, I just can't find a way around the poor mobility

I have some Plague Drones counts as up very shortly in the painting queue, which I think I'm right in saying is the fastest Icon in the book aside from Seekers?

Anyone had any luck with DSing a GUO in off an icon? (I've tried without, scattered into the open and got murdered - was against Eldar) Is it worth paying the points on a fast unit for one?

GUO off of plague drones is my favorite thing to do. Drones move 12+2D6, so they are great for getting that GUO up there. Because the GUO is so expensive, I like to hold a unit of PB in reserves with an instrument, effectively giving me 2 rolls on the GUO, as well as putting a unit of PB in mid field/near opponents table edge for objectives. I generally run 4 drones, or 2 units of 4 drones. Icon if I bring a GUO, otherwise just character+etherblade and rot proboscis. Yes proboscis took a big hit with the new poison not giving re-rolls, but hitting most everything on 4s and wounding on 3s with ap2 is phenominal. Unit also has enough attacks to deal a few HP to vehicles reliably.
Plague drones are pretty awesome, and I think they are just as fast as seekers. Both have a 12" move, though seekers take dangerous terrain when moving through. Drones only when starting/stopping. Seekers run 4-9 inches, while drones assault move 2-12 inches. Seekers move an average of 18.5, drones an average of 19. Seekers are more reliable with the speed though.
Toss in shrouded on the drones, giving you a +3 save for being behind terrain, +2 for ruins and you have a really nice unit.

GUO off of plague drone icons is awesome.

Another interesting use is a CSM nurgle DP w/ last memory and the nurgle primaris. Get the icon in to DS the prince in the middle of the opponent and you can pop 2 novas to hit anything they are foolish enough to cluster.

What is everyone's take on nurgle oblits DS off a nurgle unit's icon? They are daemons associated with nurgle but don't have the daemon of nurgle rule. I think they scatter 1d6.

Is it better to take the Land Raiders w/ Nurglings as "free" by taking small squads of Terminators thereby freeing up the H. Support Slots ,but you'd have to board the Land Raiders first turn.

Or is it better to buy them has H.Support slots and fill them with Nurglings.

Hollismason wrote:
Is it better to take the Land Raiders w/ Nurglings as "free" by taking small squads of Terminators thereby freeing up the H. Support Slots ,but you'd have to board the Land Raiders first turn.

Or is it better to buy them has H.Support slots and fill them with Nurglings.

IMO taking the landraider as HS is preferable as nurglings have rather large base sizes so they could clutter deployment and possibly slow your forward progression. They are also not that hard to kill for a number of long ranged alpha strike options (ie waveserpents and Tau) whereas the landraider is immune to the firepower that usually kills them (S7 and 6 high RoF). I also am not a huge fan of termies anyway. Additionally in my experience once you drop 500 pts on the "nurgling star" and another 500 pts on your ObjSec scoring and CSM HQ you only will have 500-850 pts left which considering CSM HS slots tend to cost 200 pts each will probably not make a difference (the termies above would leave you without pts to really take advantage of the extra slot anyway below 2000 pts). I could see a use for it in some specialty lists though.

yeah, id agree that the hs raider option is best for the nurglings

 SHUPPET wrote:
Putting Oblits in seems like a massive massive waste of points

Nah...

I've played 5 games with my "Doom of Prospero" list... without losing.

The Oblits are the "swiss army knives" for CSM.

 whembly wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Putting Oblits in seems like a massive massive waste of points

Nah...

I've played 5 games with my "Doom of Prospero" list... without losing.

The Oblits are the "swiss army knives" for CSM.

what are some of the tactics you're using with the doom of prospero? how are you building the unit?

I've been looking at the best combos for CSM and Daemons to run a competitive and fluffy Mono-God list. I already have a Slaanesh one but am back and forth on Nurgle or Khorne.

 zachwho wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Putting Oblits in seems like a massive massive waste of points

Nah...

I've played 5 games with my "Doom of Prospero" list... without losing.

The Oblits are the "swiss army knives" for CSM.

what are some of the tactics you're using with the doom of prospero? how are you building the unit?

The Doom of Prospero™ Unit:
--Ahriman
--Sorc Terminator (Force Axe, Dimensional Key, Spell Familiar, Psyker ML3)
--3x Oblits
--Sorc Terminator (Force Axe, , Spell Familiar, Last Memory of the Yuranthos, Psyker ML4) [Allied Black Legion Supplement]

Rest of army:


The key is Ahriman, 2 terminator Sorc, the Black Legion Last Memory artifact, and 3 Oblits. You can gear out after that to your preference.

Basic tactic:
-Ahriman: roll his three powers on the Telepathy table, and hope for invisibility. One power MUST be Psychic Shriek. His other roll must be on Tzentch, so try for Doombolt.
-ML3 Sorc: roll on Santic powers in hopes of getting Gates of Infinity (GOI). If you don't get 'em, the other powers are okay.
-Last Memory Sorc: roll on Biomancy to get Endurance and/or Iron Arm. If you get either one, depending on mission/opponent, I'd roll on Pyromancy to get something shooty.

If you don't get invisibility, but get Endurance... it's groovy. (my most common loadout in my last 5 games).
If you don't get invisibility, but get Iron Arm... it's ridiculous (happened in one game... only suffered 1 wound total).
If you do get invisibility... it's insane.

Using GOI to hop around as needed, but I've found that taking the center table was really effective. With the Oblits, you are practically assured to have something to shoot at.

If you don't have GOI, utilize Ahriman's infiltrate ability to position yourselves strategically. Or, you can pull Ahriman out and deepstrike the other Sorc+Oblits... add Ahriman to a Cultist unit (haven't tried that yet).

Here's the key that makes this whole thing effective. Whenever possible, fire off the Last Memory artifact (aka, Pulse it!). Grab at least 6 dice (I usually roll 7) to ensure that a WC3 Sunburst (from Last Memory) is successful. With spell familiar, I've yet to fail two times in a row (if that happens, Sorc is removed from play).

Yes, I've periled, but it ain't bad unless you roll bad on the Peril chart and fail your LD test. If you have Endurance, you can FnP those peril wounds.

Think about it... a 36" bubble from this power where each unit takes 2d6 S4 AP5 ignore cover, soulbazed wounds.

Unit's on foot just get whittled away pretty quickly in a game if you can Pulse out like that every turn.

I've glanced to death AV 10 vehicles, and AV 10 rear armour.

And I haven't even begun to talk about Ahriman himself firing off 4 powers a turn, 3 of them can be the same. Massed Psychic Shriek, even against LD10, ain't no slouch.

Not to mention, in the rest of my army, there's an AV12 spam with 3 Helbrutes, 2 MaulerFiends and 1 or 2 Heldrakes.

Also you can Feel No Pain away the perils from Vortex if you get Endurance and it in the same unit and that unit has a chance to get Hammerhand which is +2 ST.

It's a nasty expensive unit any way you slice it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thulsa Doom wrote:
I've been looking at the best combos for CSM and Daemons to run a competitive and fluffy Mono-God list. I already have a Slaanesh one but am back and forth on Nurgle or Khorne.

CSM Nurgle Biker Lord w/ Chaos Sorcerer and Nurgle Bikers , Beasts of Nurgle etc.. is pretty nasty. Especially if you take a Nurgle Daemon Prince w/ Iron Arm and Flight. It's very fluffy and very beat sticky. Get some Nurglings for Deep Striking outlfanks and Plaguemarines in Rhinos there's your list.


CSM Nurgle Biker Lord
Optional Sorcerer

Troops
Plague Marines

F Attack
Bikers
Heldrakes
etc..

Ally
Nurgle Daemon Prince

Troop
Nurglings

F Attack
Beasts of Nurgle

H Support
Grinder

It can be a very low model count army and it depends on your points for the CSM Lord and Sorcerer and Daemon Prince as their expensive. I know someone has posted that exact list in the Army Forum but that's basically the army. Everythings Hight Toughness and Meltagunny with CC coming from Daemon Prince , Beasts or Spawn and Soul Grinder / Mauler Fiends.