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Hey buddies, I just noticed that there is a lot of hate on the internet directed at Mat Ward. Is it because of the ultra marines, the Newcrons, or something else? Plus, it seems that he made a lot of stuff different, so could anyone explain? Anyone? All answers appreciated.
Its a lot, but his modifications to the fluff are unforgivable to most players. He made the ba and crons buddies and calgar, girlyman and himself spiritual lieges. Look up his article on tg wiki if any of this confuses you. There you will find the answers you seek.
Mostly because his fluff is so over the top its not even funny, and "his guys" are always the best, at everything.
I mean, dariago? dude jsut waltz in the warp, carving up demon primearchs? each gray knight is as valuable as a whole space marine chapter? yea. right.
Necrons? the lousy doomsday arc is supposed to destroy the whole planet if it blows up? they got a "gardening tool" that can turn off any sun in the galaxy, remotely and instantly, deathmarks can shoot across five dimentions to pull of shots hitting somoene on another planet before they are even fired....
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
I feel that I should point out, for any who haven't heard, that Ward no longer works at GW. I believe that he has moved on to writing books.
As for why some people dislike him, reasons vary. Some didn't like his rules, some didn't like his fluff. But that's not to say that his work was without fans, of course.
Oh, also, 1d4chan's articles on him can be... Somewhat exaggerated, in places. Try not to get too caught up in it, if you do get your info from there.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
Its not "rules OR fluff", the fluff is sick of "mary sue" heroes who are always so perfect its sickening, the rules on the other hand are some of the most out of balance codcies in the game, both inner and outer balance-wise, and the two don't even match up at any way...
He's just BAD at writing sci-fi/space fantasy games, and when someone who is bad at his job is practically running the show of your hobby, you will naturally develop a level of distaste of him at least.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
lliu wrote: Hey buddies, I just noticed that there is a lot of hate on the internet directed at Mat Ward. Is it because of the ultra marines, the Newcrons, or something else? Plus, it seems that he made a lot of stuff different, so could anyone explain? Anyone? All answers appreciated.
Mainly atrocious fluff and bad naming conventions coupled with some derpy rules.
Lines akin to "all SM's wish they could be Ultramarines", Necrons becoming Tomb Kings in Space, over the top stuff like Draigo carving names into a Daemon Primarch's hearth absurd renaming of dreadnought close combat weapons to "blood fists" just for the Blood Angels book or "Nemesis Doom Fists" for the GK book, in addition to some very poorly thought out rules (oh yeah, just include the Stormlord in your army and you get to make free potshots on everything in your opponents army, oh and GK's get to upgrade multiple twin linked autocannons to S8 for 5pts, turning the otherwise assault and jump pack oriented Blood Angels into a Dreadnought and Heavy Armor spam army matched only by IG, etc...)
His personal site looks like something from a bad fanfic writer, proclaiming himself a "Writer of Fantastical Tales" and sporting atrocious and painful to read font throughout his site and blog.
He's gone from GW now, so we'll need a new focus of ire
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
lliu wrote: Hey buddies, I just noticed that there is a lot of hate on the internet directed at Mat Ward. Is it because of the ultra marines, the Newcrons, or something else? Plus, it seems that he made a lot of stuff different, so could anyone explain? Anyone? All answers appreciated.
Mainly atrocious fluff and bad naming conventions coupled with some derpy rules.
Lines akin to "all SM's wish they could be Ultramarines", Necrons becoming Tomb Kings in Space, over the top stuff like Draigo carving names into a Daemon Primarch's hearth absurd renaming of dreadnought close combat weapons to "blood fists" just for the Blood Angels book or "Nemesis Doom Fists" for the GK book, in addition to some very poorly thought out rules (oh yeah, just include the Stormlord in your army and you get to make free potshots on everything in your opponents army, oh and GK's get to upgrade multiple twin linked autocannons to S8 for 5pts, turning the otherwise assault and jump pack oriented Blood Angels into a Dreadnought and Heavy Armor spam army matched only by IG, etc...)
His personal site looks like something from a bad fanfic writer, proclaiming himself a "Writer of Fantastical Tales" and sporting atrocious and painful to read font throughout his site and blog.
He's gone from GW now, so we'll need a new focus of ire
Well Cruddance and Grant are doing all of the 40k stuff while Kelly and Vetock are doing fantasy.
BoomWolf wrote: Its not "rules OR fluff", the fluff is sick of "mary sue" heroes who are always so perfect its sickening, the rules on the other hand are some of the most out of balance codcies in the game, both inner and outer balance-wise, and the two don't even match up at any way...
He's just BAD at writing sci-fi/space fantasy games, and when someone who is bad at his job is practically running the show of your hobby, you will naturally develop a level of distaste of him at least.
Seriously.
Phil Kelly has written more OP codex's for 40k, Ward has the best internal balance of any codex writer in 40k with mostly usable units, while Phil kelly writes things like Mutilators and Mandrakes and has autoincludes like Heldrakes, Grey hunters. Cruddance with his vendetta of 5th edition and his useless tyranids.
The real problem is that people just outright hate his fluff, his codex's have a strong external balance but nothing as badly OP as has been brought out by the others, and as aresult they demonize him to the point where most of the insults are taken out of context, misattributed, or just outright lies, or pretty much meme's forced by a board that no longer even hates him anymore.
BoomWolf wrote: Mostly because his fluff is so over the top its not even funny, and "his guys" are always the best, at everything.
I mean, dariago? dude jsut waltz in the warp, carving up demon primearchs? each gray knight is as valuable as a whole space marine chapter? yea. right.
Necrons? the lousy doomsday arc is supposed to destroy the whole planet if it blows up? they got a "gardening tool" that can turn off any sun in the galaxy, remotely and instantly, deathmarks can shoot across five dimentions to pull of shots hitting somoene on another planet before they are even fired....
You mean the giant slab of steel known as the celestial orrery?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and deathmarks can shoot through five dimensions? That's just wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 17:42:28
BoomWolf wrote: Its not "rules OR fluff", the fluff is sick of "mary sue" heroes who are always so perfect its sickening, the rules on the other hand are some of the most out of balance codcies in the game, both inner and outer balance-wise, and the two don't even match up at any way...
He's just BAD at writing sci-fi/space fantasy games, and when someone who is bad at his job is practically running the show of your hobby, you will naturally develop a level of distaste of him at least.
Seriously.
Phil Kelly has written more OP codex's for 40k, Ward has the best internal balance of any codex writer in 40k with mostly usable units, while Phil kelly writes things like Mutilators and Mandrakes and has autoincludes like Heldrakes, Grey hunters. Cruddance with his vendetta of 5th edition and his useless tyranids.
The real problem is that people just outright hate his fluff, his codex's have a strong external balance but nothing as badly OP as has been brought out by the others
Hrm, he had some pretty bad ones too. GK's in 5th were highly abusive, Vulkan was the only SMHQ I saw for a full solid year until SW's came out, and he turned the formerly high-speed infantry assault based BA's into an armored battlegroup army for no apparent reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 17:53:54
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Seriously.
Ward has the best internal balance of any codex writer in 40k with mostly usable units
The real problem is that people just outright hate his fluff, his codex's have a strong external balance but nothing as badly OP as has been brought out by the others
My Codex: Blood Angels think differently.
How can a book of eight named character include two nearly OP ones while having six other that are simply not usable outside of fluffy lists?
His three most notorious works are Necrons, Blood Angels and Grey Knights. One of them is used in GT's while the other is considered to be the worst army out there (maybe 2nd after Nids).
And people don't "just outright hate his fluff". They hate bad fluff which he happens to write. Draigo is the most Mary Sue character in 40k fluff.
And let's not forget deep striking Land Raiders... that blows up when they land on top of a single Guardsman.
When both his fluff and crunch is okay or cool at best and awful at worst, I see no reason to like him too much. It's not that I hate him, he just hasn't given me a single reason to like him.
To OP:
just read this if you have time. It's a bit one-sided but gives you a general idea. The internet can be cruel sometimes.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Matt_ward
- Ultramarines and "spiritual liege"
- Necron/BA brofist.
- Draigo and Mortarion
- Breaking Fantasy with Daemons
- Screwing Orcs and Goblins because he wasn't a fan
- Being responsible for books that were OP at launch, although in many cases seem to settle down to more mid-tier, whether that was good writing on his behalf, or the system being rewritten to reign it in, only the studio knows.
Nearly every player of GW games will have been on the receiving end of one of those, and many were annoyed by it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
BoomWolf wrote: Its not "rules OR fluff", the fluff is sick of "mary sue" heroes who are always so perfect its sickening, the rules on the other hand are some of the most out of balance codcies in the game, both inner and outer balance-wise, and the two don't even match up at any way...
He's just BAD at writing sci-fi/space fantasy games, and when someone who is bad at his job is practically running the show of your hobby, you will naturally develop a level of distaste of him at least.
Seriously.
Phil Kelly has written more OP codex's for 40k, Ward has the best internal balance of any codex writer in 40k with mostly usable units, while Phil kelly writes things like Mutilators and Mandrakes and has autoincludes like Heldrakes, Grey hunters. Cruddance with his vendetta of 5th edition and his useless tyranids.
The real problem is that people just outright hate his fluff, his codex's have a strong external balance but nothing as badly OP as has been brought out by the others
Hrm, he had some pretty bad ones too. GK's in 5th were highly abusive, Vulkan was the only SMHQ I saw for a full solid year until SW's came out, and he turned the formerly high-speed infantry assault based BA's into an armored battlegroup army for no apparent reason.
GK in 5th were strong, and hard to fight for some.
But I'd take that anyday over 6th edition Eldar, Tau and Daemons, GK didn't practically define a meta so hard as they had.
Of course I probably wouldn't mind as much if people actually hated on the others as much, but no, it's all Ward, Ward wrote "All" the OP codex and wrote "All" the crappy lore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 18:06:56
Lol well the Newcrons dropped the nihilist approach, so the orrery just became a hallmark achievement that they allow and celebrate life now
That being said I have mixed feelings on all things related to Matt Ward
* The Necrons had really just been written into figurative hole, they hate all life enemy of everyone, no purpose but to kill, which is bland honestly and pretty much a impossible in the scope of 40k ( without something like the Orrery amirite? ), I really only saw the fate of them being every race that kinda enjoys living, just bringing the ban-hammer down and removing them from existence. So I kinda like the direction for the most part with the fluff ( bar ridiculous things mind you), if TK didn't exist for warhammer players, people would have thought the Egyptians in space cool as all hell like Stargate
* Gk, I personally don't think this was a codex that should have ever been, GW owes us books about the Branches of the Inquisiton and their pocket military ( hell make it 3 books, so you can still make quota), Wards redo while I thought had tons of options and flexibility, after 6th came out it was quite apparent they were crafted with that in mind ( before the OP naysayers come abound), I was quite discontent with the fluff, I missed the secret saviors approach, where their sacrifice ( and not that of others) was the paramount focus. Overall I liked the book because it allowed so many options, but I still felt "off" about it, and I think now GW is juat furthering this mistake with the new GK book, gutting it and trying to make a fraction of the Ordo Malleus into a standalone codex
* BA, honestly I liked this one pretty good, the fast vehicles has always been their thing, and they got some real nice options because of that ( they could use a fast somewhat cheaper assault platform I think now), their is flavor to be had all over in their codex from a rules standpoint; Libby Dreads, DS landraiders, Angels of Descent, people falling to the black rage pre battle ( maybe not as cool as old rules, but that was a hassle process anyway tbh), personally it's one of my favorite dexes because of the sheer amount of cool models and rules, and such a host of actually modeled special characters, this is what a Faction actually supported by GW looks like. And Blah the Cron - BA Alliance, has nobody been paying attention .... dude gets alittle to zealous with fluff sometimes
"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions who have severe mutations [Blood Angels] or stolid stubbornness [Space Wolves and Dark Angels] all Space Marine Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege."
- Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, in the White Dwarf interview celebrating the release of Codex: Space Marines.
"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions who have severe mutations [Blood Angels] or stolid stubbornness [Space Wolves and Dark Angels] all Space Marine Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege."
- Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, in the White Dwarf interview celebrating the release of Codex: Space Marines.
Sometimes I truly wonder if he said things like that, just to troll the sensitive aka easily butthurt members of our community
"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions who have severe mutations [Blood Angels] or stolid stubbornness [Space Wolves and Dark Angels] all Space Marine Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege."
- Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, in the White Dwarf interview celebrating the release of Codex: Space Marines.
Sometimes I truly wonder if he said things like that, just to troll the sensitive aka easily butthurt members of our community
I doubt it, White Dwarf isn't exactly known for that, and if you've seen his other stuff (particularly his website), it's probably pretty genuine, unless everything he does is just for troll lulz.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Seriously, if the Necrons want to take out the imperium, don't they just have to supernova the sun terra goes around with the celestial orrery? Poof! Dead emperor, crapload of dead space marines, end of mars, crapload of dead techmarines, end of the imperium. Period.
- First with the infamous 7th ed Fantasy book that was so disgustingly over powered. Not only could a blind 6 year old auto-pilot a Daemon army to victory, but the four subsequent books - Dark Elves, Chaos Warriors, Lizardmen & Skaven, were all ramped up to rather silly levels as well just so they could compete. By the end of 7th edition - the edition that nearly ruined Fantasy entirely and killed off a large part of the community, Dark Elves were tops, with Daemons still trolling across most other opponents.
When questioned by the community at a Games Day event as to why Daemons were so seemingly over powered, he simply answered, "well they Daemons - they should be over powered!"
- Wrote Grey Knights who could actively stop a Daemon player from deploying a single model on the table. And all you needed was 30 models to effectively lock off an entire 6'x4' table, bar a tiny little 8"x6"ish corner.
On top of giving them piles of OTT wargear such as the "psycho-f*** grenades", 'Winning Flame', the ability to 'turn off' nearly every dameonic upgrade (including a DP's mark of Chaos!), I6 space marines with force weapons, etc...
- Wrote 8th edition Daemons.
Overnight we went from breaking everyone else's game, to simply becoming game-breakingly dyslexic! Daemons can still rock two of the game's hardest lists, (so we're still viewed as the TFG army), but if you like Tzeentch or Khorne, well, too bad so sad, you're now bottom of the heap for the most part.
The book is just plain awful in that it simply reads as a half-baked attempt at a first draft. Badly implemented rules like the aptly named Reign of Comedy table, horrible Gift tables that make it outright impossible to protect your characters, wonky points costs across the entire book, etc...
Winning with DoC now either tends to be effortless, (because you ran the 'uber list), or else you feel like you win in spite of your army book rather than because it's a solid book.
- Gave High Elves the 5th ed Grey Knights treatment towards Daemons.
Not only do High Elves effectively out play Daemons in every single phase except for the possibility of the Movement phase, but they also have a special character who picks on Daemons, plus a shiny banner that can grant an entire unit + any characters in it a 2++ vs. absolutely everything the Daemon army can possibly throw at it! (outside of the auto-kill spells, of which only 2 are in any way semi-effective AND one of those requires you to bring Kairos!)
High Elves effectively can be made near auto-win vs. any Daemon army, because 'reasons'.
The only remotely bright spot for Daemon players is our current 40k codex written by Phil Kelly. Sure there's a few issues, but overall, you the player, have to actively decide to be a complete donkey-cave with 40k Daemons, unlike the Wardian versions which tend to simply leave a sour taste in both players' mouths.
Troike wrote: I feel that I should point out, for any who haven't heard, that Ward no longer works at GW. I believe that he has moved on to writing books.
As for why some people dislike him, reasons vary. Some didn't like his rules, some didn't like his fluff. But that's not to say that his work was without fans, of course.
Oh, also, 1d4chan's articles on him can be... Somewhat exaggerated, in places. Try not to get too caught up in it, if you do get your info from there.
Well whos going to make my BA overpowered and playable as a melee army in 7th??
Azreal13 wrote: Not that it matters because given the amount of interbreeding that went on with that lot I'm pretty sure the Queen is her own Uncle.
BA 6000; 1250
Really this thread just failed on about 3 levels, you should all feel bad and do better.-motyak
Kangodo wrote: Because it's the internet and we all need someone to hate.
Ward has left GW, so people will find a new target for their grievances.
Quite true. There is not one thing that Mat Ward did that was not approved by someone else within GW. Being the credited figurehead on unpopular fluff and rules means being the designated scapegoat.
Your Codex: Blood Angels should blame 6th Edition and not Matt Ward
Interestingly enough, my ebook version of the BA book is credited to the GW Design Team, not to Mat Ward.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Kangodo wrote: Because it's the internet and we all need someone to hate.
Ward has left GW, so people will find a new target for their grievances.
Quite true. There is not one thing that Mat Ward did that was not approved by someone else within GW. Being the credited figurehead on unpopular fluff and rules means being the designated scapegoat.
Supposedly not quite true. He apparently had little oversight with the 5E Space Marine book, and amongst his changes included the transport capacities of Land Raiders and Drop Pods to twelve from ten. According to his own words at UKGD 2009, he supposedly "got his knuckles wrapped for that", as they obviously didn't get noticed in time to change before the book was printed, and those transport capacity changes did not carry over to any other 5E marine book or the subsequent 6E SM codex.
Thus he was apparently not quite as well scrutinized as many would think.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I personally have not been affected by Matt Ward's dumb rules because i started playing about two years ago and only play tau/orks. Ive used necrons as one of my friends back in Korea and i did a race swap, that was interesting, but one game doesnt count for credit lol.
However i know what he did to Orks and Goblins and the rumor for the longest time was that he was doing the 40k Orks codex that just dropped. Considering how badly the Orcs and Goblins one was, making tons of veteran players shelf their beloved greenskins, i was dreading the new ork codex until i found out he wasnt writing it and it was just a stupid rumor.
Edit: Todays world people will complain about anything, even if they dont care about what theyre complaining for. Internet is full of examples of people suing others or protesting businesses over the dumbest thing imaginable that the average non-idiot would just turn a blind eye to and ignore it since it was either insignificant or doesnt affect them one bit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 03:13:36
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
For the most part, I just think people want to be angry at somebody. The dude wasn't perfect, but he also wasn't as abysmal as many would claim. I rather liked his approach to Necrons.
Your Codex: Blood Angels should blame 6th Edition and not Matt Ward
Interestingly enough, my ebook version of the BA book is credited to the GW Design Team, not to Mat Ward.
It's still a copypastework of the original codex, mainly adding Hull Points.
But we must note that Ward isn't that bad.
Even tough the codices are nowadays written by "GW Design Team", it is not a new idea. The codices have always been written as a team, the name within was the one in charge who made the last decision in everything.
So every bad codex with his name on it was only mostly his fault.
And we must note that he has had some good ideas over the past few years. The Eldar's Battle Focus was originally his idea, altough Kelly got all the praise (and some hate) for it.
Its still not covering how freaking insane some of the necron units became when 6th came out (annibarge and night scythe specifically, tesla in general) and considering he was the lead designer of both, and they came out practically back-to-back he had to be either slowed, clueless of not give a feth in order to manage to screw up balance THAT hard and not foresee the changes that will come out with jink changes, snap shots and flyers introduced into the game.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
4000p
), I really only saw the fate of them being every race that kinda enjoys living, just bringing the ban-hammer down and removing them from existence. So I kinda like the direction for the most part with the fluff ( bar ridiculous things mind you), if 
1250
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys