Nurgle Bike Lord, Or Khorne Juggerlord, Or both..?

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**Merellin**

So, I'm trying to think of ideas for my chaos army I want to start and I have two ideas for my warband leader. Either I use a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut with the Axe of Blind Fury.. Though I dont know what to run him with.. Or I use the Crimson Slaughter book and use a Nurgle Lord on Bike with the Daemonheart in a unit of nurgle bikers. Or I use both, But then I have to pick one of the two artifacts (Or maybe ally the two books together to use both..) I also kind of want a Sorcerer in the army for some magic, Together with a unit of Thousand Sons..

**ansacs**

Both are valid options but with different strengths and weaknesses. I would not recommend both unless you play 2000 pts + as they get expensive fast.

The Khorne lord on jugger usually goes with unmarked spawn to use as ablative wounds. He has incredible offense but his unit and himself lacks defense. It is definitely recommended to take a sorcerer or Be'Lakor to use telepathy and put invisibility and/or shrouding on the unit or to take divination to get forewarning. His other weakness is that he unlocks Zerkers as troops instead of the superior plaguemarines, so unless you really want to use zerkers you will probably be taking cultists as troops.

The nurgle lord is excellent with Daemonheart, Power fist and claw, and sigil. Units of nurgle bikers or nurgle spawn are both excellent escorts in their own ways. The bikers give a little extra dakka and tend to work better unsupported (also the champ can keep the lord from bad challenges). The spawn are cheaper per wound and when buffed with shrouding, forwarning, and/or invisibility the unit becomes extremely difficult to stop. The nurgle lord is much more flexible and tends to perform better against most opponents but cannot take on the top tier melee fighters like a jugger axe khorne lord... so he requires discretion. One of the biggest advantages though is that he unlocks plaguemarines which are an excellent troop choice an give the much needed forward scoring CSM struggle with.

Either way you will want to reread the rules for building an army. You cannot ally crimson slaughter and CSM codices together anymore but you can take any unit from any CSM faction codex in your CAD as long as you fulfill any conditions of the codex. You can take multiple CADs however.

Sorcerers are pretty good. I would recommend a crimson slaughter unmarked sorcerer with voice of the prophet and spell familiar in a unit of possessed troops. Excellent malefic user. Another great sorcerer is black legion unmarked with spell familiar, termi armour, and Last Memory of Uranthos dropping in with a group of termis or nurgle oblits. They DS in and the sorcerer novas all the units around them. Very nasty. If you are getting a sorcerer to help protect your khorne lord on jugger or nurgle lord on bike units then a sorcerer on bike unmarked with spell familiar (or Balestar of Mannon for divination) work well as they can stay with the unit they protect.

**Merellin**

The two Lords arent super expensive in points unless you add a bunch of extra stuff, A Khorne Lord on Juggernaut with Axe of Blind Fury costs 145 points, And a Nurgle Lord on Bike with Lightning Claw, Power Fist, And Sigil of Corruption costs the same.. Wait, Forgot the bike, He's slightly more expensive.. (Dont know how much the Daemonheart costs as I dont have the supplement yet..) So they arent super expensive (I mostly play necrons and tend to have 2 kitted out Necron Overlords that cost more then that)

And does that mean I can take a detachment of regular Chaos Marines, And one of Crimson Slaughter then..?

**Psienesis**

Edit: NM, this was meant for that other CSM Bike Lord thread.... curse you and your similarly-themed threads!

*fist shake*

**ansacs**

The lords themselves are not pts expensive but rather the support elements you need to transport them into melee are expensive and decent forward scoring in the CSM army lists are also expensive. Once you get two lords, two units of ablative wounds (putting them both in the same unit is massive overkill and extremely wasteful), 2 troops (hopefully 2 of these are decent forward scoring), and some form of long ranged can opener you are going to have a lot of tough decisions and deficits. It is doable but is usually one dimensional and lacks the flexibility and balance you would normally seek to achieve in a 7ed list.

**Merellin**

Well, The entire idea behind the army is having 2 HQ's following diferent gods, That are brothers trying to prove that they are the better one, And their god is the superiour one... Maybe I should go for a Nurgle Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer instead.. Or a Khorne Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer.. So hard to chose..

**ansacs**

What sort of pts limit are you looking to play within?

**DaPino**

I'd really opt for Chaos spawn with MoN as a bodyguard team. They lack an armor save and a shooting attack but they more than make up for it in terms of survivability.
You're much more likely to get your lord into combat before getting wrecked.

Even without MoN, spawn are superior bodyguards for Lords you want to get into close combat.

Merellin wrote:
Well, The entire idea behind the army is having 2 HQ's following diferent gods, That are brothers trying to prove that they are the better one, And their god is the superiour one... Maybe I should go for a Nurgle Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer instead.. Or a Khorne Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer.. So hard to chose..

If it's hate you're going for, either Nurgle - Slaanesh or Khorne - Tzeentch will do. Not saying Khorne and Nurgle like each other but they aren't 'main antagonists' in the Chaos pantheon.

I run a similar list but my theme is more like a Legolas - Gimli relationship than brothers. A hunting party to see who can gain the most divine favor!
Tzeentch always wins vs Khorne because Ahriman is a beast. :p

**Experiment 626**

DaPino wrote:
I'd really opt for Chaos spawn with MoN as a bodyguard team. They lack an armor save and a shooting attack but they more than make up for it in terms of survivability.
You're much more likely to get your lord into combat before getting wrecked.

Even without MoN, spawn are superior bodyguards for Lords you want to get into close combat.

Merellin wrote:
Well, The entire idea behind the army is having 2 HQ's following diferent gods, That are brothers trying to prove that they are the better one, And their god is the superiour one... Maybe I should go for a Nurgle Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer instead.. Or a Khorne Lord and a Tzeentch Sorcerer.. So hard to chose..

If it's hate you're going for, either Nurgle - Slaanesh or Khorne - Tzeentch will do. Not saying Khorne and Nurgle like each other but they aren't 'main antagonists' in the Chaos pantheon.

I run a similar list but my theme is more like a Legolas - Gimli relationship than brothers. A hunting party to see who can gain the most divine favor!
Tzeentch always wins vs Khorne because Ahriman is a beast. :p

The main enmities between the Gods and their servents are Khorne/Slaanesh and Tzeentch/Nurgle.

**Merellin**

I normaly play between 1000 and 2000 points. Often 1500 or so arround there. And I dident know Spawn was that survivable, Gotta check them in the book later..

And i'm not looking for outright hate, It is more "I am better then you! My god is the superiour one! All glory to me and my god!" =P

**ansacs**

I see why you want to do it now. I would probably proxy a few games first to figure out a list that works for you (a proxy then purchase is a happy purchase). My initial recommendation would be something vaguely like;

Spoiler:

You can probably see what I meant to somewhat unbalanced as this list is light on anti tank and anti flyer. However it is reasonably flexible and most units can accomplish multiple different goals.

Also I designed the list around the idea that you discard any maelstorm cards you cannot achieve. If that is not true then you need a psyker.

**Yksak**

ansacs wrote:

Chaos Space Marines (CAD)
HQ
[Crimson Slaughter] Chaos Lord (225pts) Bike, Blight grenades, Daemonheart, Gift of mutation, Mark of Nurgle, Sigil of corruption, The Slaughterer’s Horns, Lightning Claw, Power Fist
[CSM] Chaos Lord (175pts) Blight grenades, Juggernaut of Khorne, Mark of Khorne, Sigil of corruption, Axe of Blind Fury, Bolt Pistol

I think you cant take any different artefact then those from Crimson Slaughter book when you are using this supplement, so the jugger lord with axe would have to be in second detachement. But maybe im wrong

**ansacs**

Reread how CAD works. Crimson slaughter and CSM are the same fraction.

**Yksak**

I will

im new to hobby.. its just how i undestood my supplement

"Any character in your Crimson Slaughter detachment that can select Chaos Artefacts
cannot select from those listed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, but can instead select
from the Relics of the Crimson Slaughter, presented opposite, at the points cost shown."

**ansacs**

That is why one lord is from crimson slaughter and the other is from the CSM codex. Specifically because of the relics.

NP, this entire CAD thing is both simpler and infinitely more complex than the old method of list building.

**Merellin**

Hmm.. Thinking of just going with a lord and a sorcerer for brothers.. Mebbes a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut and a Tzeentch or Slaanesh sorcerer as his brother..