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I know what you're thinking - this has probably been asked on here a thousand times before but I was wondering if any of you could chip in with any advice.

Should I start an orks army?
I play DA, and DE, CSM and although I find the marine armies much of a muchness, I really love the up close and personal attack style of DE however I have grown keen to change for something new for about a year or so. I thought nids, but some of the models are a bit naff while others are fantastic, but then I thought orks.

No one I know plays orks (crazy I know but honestly true) so I can't really pick anyones brains, but all the models look fun, the fluff is fun, and I want to paint an army completely different from what I might normally do. However I don't know how they play, or how to start without the usual advice or as I have done in the past - by just borrowing a friends codex, and building from there before committing to buying.

Anyway, any help would be fantastic

Orks aren't an army. They are a lifestyle. After fully committing to orks, I find everything in life can be divided into two categories: 1) Stuff Bigger than me, 2) Stuff Smaller than me. I listen to one and beat up the other, which leaves me fulfilled and happier.


More seriously, its a great army, with a lot of personality, conversion opportunities (I've never bought a lobba or kannon from GW and my buggies are Converted Deff Koptas), and there are a lot of viable, fun builds. That being said, they are Orks. They die in bucket fulls (Almost all the armor and invulns were taken out of our codex, yes you can buy 4+ armor, but it adds up quick and a lot of what you want it for is AP 4+ anyway), the shooting is awful and you will swing wildly between moments of rolling a million dice and killing everything and rolling a million dice and not getting anything (rolled 40 D6 the other night, needing 2 6's, got 1), but WS4/T4 means we out melee a lot of things (Or at least its a fair fight, I'll take 50% to hit all day), and our fast attack section is well priced (pts wise) and loads of fun (5 TL Rokkit buggies for 125 pts? Yeehaaaaaaaaaa!!!) and our artillery section is really great IMO. (Cheap barrage and some of the best anti-air/MC grounders around). The codex has been out for awhile now and I haven't seen any of the (note the quotes) "WAAC" players throwing around super amazing game breaking builds, and that may be the best thing about the lastest codexes, they don't feel like a push to create power creep. (Though I have my issues with the Ork codex, like forcing me to take stikkbombs for that extra point, but I digress)

Honestly, the only time I regret being an ork player is when I take it too seriously, though I feel that way about the game in general, but playing orks really hammered it home. Without access to the buffs other armies rely on to take randomness out of the game, the only thing an Ork can rely on is punching something in the face until it stops moving. I play my army fast, in your face, firing guns into the air and screaming the whole time. I almost never just flat out crush my opponents, which again, is probably a good thing, I feel like orks are fun to paint (Tubs of brown wash and mud), fun to convert (I've spent weekends building buggies and stuff that I have yet to field, I just felt like turning some model I saw into an ork vehicle <looks at PzII Skorcha he made out of a $8 model&gt and fun to play with a mix of shooting, assaulting and support units.

My 2 cents, which after tax isn't worth that much.

Cheers!


edit: One gripe, that I get around with Ebay and buying used models off local gamers....the cost per pt. to build an ork army......<sigh> Such is life, but I imagine IG foot list have the same issue.

Heres the thing about orks, especially these days.

They are NOT an auto-win army. I win a fair bit of my games but thats primarily because i know my opponents behavior and i play into that every single game. Put me in a tournament i probably would get my butt kicked.

They are, however, a very fun army to build, paint, kitbash, and field. Playing the game with an ork army is all about how awesomely cool it would be to krump something big with something insignificant in a blaze of glory. Ive had grots wipe terminator units through sheer luck and it was hilarious. Ive also had a MANz missile slam into a Venerable Dreadnought and die with it and i didnt care because it was funny.

If you love to build/paint models, get orks. If you dont mind losing a lot while you figure them out, get orks. If your ultimate goal in a game is to have fun and not necessarily win every time, get orks.
If ANY of these dont apply to you, stay the hell away from my boyz!

Orkses are loads of fun. Even when you don't win. There is almost always a memorable moment in a game where the orky randomness does something amazing (for me last game it was one boom bomm immobilizing a leman Russ and exploding another). Sometimes the luck is for your opponent, but it is always a good memory and a fun game. They may not always be competitive but they usually have some chance of winning which makes the game fun.

Well that about sums it up for me!

I am now ALL over this! You've got me decided, xenos filth here we come

Winning really isn't that important to me either...It was for a bit, and I really put together a nasty 1500/2000pt DE lists, and really got a groove of how to use them, in fact I started tabling people pretty much every time with my DE, (unless I came up against Elder, then I was well and truly f***'d) and that's what's put me off playing DE a bit. I'd lost focus of why I started the hobby in the first place - for a bit of fun. I felt bad that its getting so one sided and the games didn't have much narrative - other than me just spamming with wytches, or blobbing infantry. Where is the fun in that? It's just going through the motions.

Your replies got me smiling...and thinking...
Some of the best games I've had was when I used to use my somewhat unpredictable chaos nurgle army. Things would back fire ALL THE TIME, and I loved that. Made the game fun, forged a narrative. I've missed that.
Also, I LOVE kit bashing, and painting rust so I have no idea why I've not gone green sooner!

PS - This (below) might be the funniest reply I've ever had to any question on here Thanks

 Saevus wrote:
Orks aren't an army. They are a lifestyle. After fully committing to orks, I find everything in life can be divided into two categories: 1) Stuff Bigger than me, 2) Stuff Smaller than me. I listen to one and beat up the other, which leaves me fulfilled and happier.


More seriously, its a great army, with a lot of personality, conversion opportunities (I've never bought a lobba or kannon from GW and my buggies are Converted Deff Koptas), and there are a lot of viable, fun builds. That being said, they are Orks. They die in bucket fulls (Almost all the armor and invulns were taken out of our codex, yes you can buy 4+ armor, but it adds up quick and a lot of what you want it for is AP 4+ anyway), the shooting is awful and you will swing wildly between moments of rolling a million dice and killing everything and rolling a million dice and not getting anything (rolled 40 D6 the other night, needing 2 6's, got 1), but WS4/T4 means we out melee a lot of things (Or at least its a fair fight, I'll take 50% to hit all day), and our fast attack section is well priced (pts wise) and loads of fun (5 TL Rokkit buggies for 125 pts? Yeehaaaaaaaaaa!!!) and our artillery section is really great IMO. (Cheap barrage and some of the best anti-air/MC grounders around). The codex has been out for awhile now and I haven't seen any of the (note the quotes) "WAAC" players throwing around super amazing game breaking builds, and that may be the best thing about the lastest codexes, they don't feel like a push to create power creep. (Though I have my issues with the Ork codex, like forcing me to take stikkbombs for that extra point, but I digress)

Honestly, the only time I regret being an ork player is when I take it too seriously, though I feel that way about the game in general, but playing orks really hammered it home. Without access to the buffs other armies rely on to take randomness out of the game, the only thing an Ork can rely on is punching something in the face until it stops moving. I play my army fast, in your face, firing guns into the air and screaming the whole time. I almost never just flat out crush my opponents, which again, is probably a good thing, I feel like orks are fun to paint (Tubs of brown wash and mud), fun to convert (I've spent weekends building buggies and stuff that I have yet to field, I just felt like turning some model I saw into an ork vehicle <looks at PzII Skorcha he made out of a $8 model&gt and fun to play with a mix of shooting, assaulting and support units.

My 2 cents, which after tax isn't worth that much.

Cheers!


edit: One gripe, that I get around with Ebay and buying used models off local gamers....the cost per pt. to build an ork army......<sigh> Such is life, but I imagine IG foot list have the same issue.

 Black Lantern wrote:
I know what you're thinking - this has probably been asked on here a thousand times before but I was wondering if any of you could chip in with any advice.

Should I start an orks army?
I play DA, and DE, CSM and although I find the marine armies much of a muchness, I really love the up close and personal attack style of DE however I have grown keen to change for something new for about a year or so. I thought nids, but some of the models are a bit naff while others are fantastic, but then I thought orks.

No one I know plays orks (crazy I know but honestly true) so I can't really pick anyones brains, but all the models look fun, the fluff is fun, and I want to paint an army completely different from what I might normally do. However I don't know how they play, or how to start without the usual advice or as I have done in the past - by just borrowing a friends codex, and building from there before committing to buying.

Anyway, any help would be fantastic

Here's some advice on what I did when i tried orks.

EVERYONE involved on both sides of the table seem to enjoy ork games. they allow their enemies to "do their thing" unabated while themselves doing their thing. The enemy is having a great time blowing things up (and they're actually blowing things up) so they are happy, and you get to growl and yell WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!! at appropriate moments (or when the mood strikes for no apparent reason).

It's fun.

Orks are tons of fun and they rock! I enjoy playing them much more then space marines (EMPRAH FORGIVE ME!!)

Its the ork fluff that makes them so much fun. I talk in ork voices when I play. I always try and kill the grots in the funniest way possible and I always look forward to rolling on another ork random table. The green skins seem to win 50/50 but that is mostly because there is a 50% chance they blow themselves up before anything productive happens. But even that is a win if done in style.

This is getting me excited. I've got a load of work on which means gaming won't happen for a while, but it does mean I can really knuckle down and get some painting done in the evenings. I actually cannot wait to get these green skins going

Orks seem like a blast to play for me, with all their strange rules.

Added bonus: due to their ramshackle aesthetic, with a little know-how you could build your own vehicles, from Trukks to Stompas, and save big bucks. Got some toys from your childhood, flea market, yard sale, your kids outgrew their Tonkas? Any toy vehicle is potential Ork hardware.

I was thinking the same thing dude. I've also got a shedload of WW2 1:35 kits of tanks and planes that got donated to our club. They've just been gathering dust...until now ;P

WWII 1/35, I have an entire tub of them. I travel for work, and one of the things I do in every city I go to, is find a hobby store, and look through their clearance section.

Welcome back to enjoying you hobby again!




WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

I have admired orks for a loooooong time, havent dipped in yet, but i help my son paint some of his up. Ive been staring at Badruks flash gitz bundle....it may be time to act on it lol.

I love orks, nough said

When playing orks you only have to remember that it doesn't matter which side is doing the dying only that something dies.

Join the horde it will be fun.

First and foremost: Expect your wallet to hate your guts for starting Orks. My personal rule is Ebay, Ebay, and more Ebay. I've only bought maybe 2 kits from GW (1 box of Kanz and 1 Weirdboy), the rest I all got second hand. I have well over 5K worth of Orks and I've spent under a thousand dollars for it all. Ebay is amazing...

As for Orks! I've been playing for about a year and have played no other army other than Orks. (Though I've just begun to start Necrons). Orks are always a blast to play. There's only one other Ork player in my area, but he only comes by for Apoc games, so games for me are easy to get since EVERYONE loves to squish Orks.

As a whole, Orks are currently very balanced. We are by no means a power army, but we can really put up a good fight. I've been winning virtually all my games now, even against lists tailored to kill Orks. We have stuff that is so strange and yet so good. It's fun to hear players say once in a while they had what we have. Very rare for Orks to have something another army covets.

Pros:

Orks are cheap points wise. You can cram a LOT into a list if you try. Infantry is cheap, artillery is cheap and our vehicles (For the most part) are cheap as well. Orks excel at CC, which is no surprise, and can be surprisngly efficient with gunfire as well if you spam it. Our basic troops can lob out 2 shots apiece in mobs as large as 30. And if you should, hypothetically, get all 30 in range of an opponent's squad, 60 shots is hilarious, despite less than half actually hitting and even less wounding (Statistically). Also getting that 30 Boy blob into CC is fun. Having 3-4 attacks in CC is even better >

We've gained recent access to ample S8 weaponry, a weakness that once haunted us. Tankbustas are pure S8 squads for fairly cheap (13 points a model), Kopters and buggies got cheaper all around and can get Rokkits as free upgrades and both are highly mobile (Further making them more amazing). Several Mek Guns can pack S8 weaponry at BS3 (which is awesome for us) and the Mek Guns are overall dirt cheap and come in batteries of 1-5 models. (Easy to scratch build too, or find cheap substitutes)

Non combat pros are how fun Orks are to actually paint and convert. I'm a terrible painter, but even my rookie paintjob looks darn good and suits them. Ork armies can be themed with Klans, or you can just do whatever, like I did, and make a really unique and fun to look at army.

Cons:

Orks are for the most part...defenseless. Orks lack any form of durability outside their natural T4. They make up for it in numbers though. Wec arry a 6+ armor on basically everything by default (except Warbikers and Kopters who get T5). You can only get a max of 4+ armor, but it gets costly, and isn't really worth it in the end. You can use those points to put more bodies or artillery on the field. The only things to get 2+ armor are our Meganobz/Megabosses/Megameks, but they can still ID to S8.

Orks have no invul saves outside of using the KFF, but that works only on ranged combat. So, our HQs can die pretty easily in a challenge. The key to Orks is to remember they are bullies on the battlefield. It's funny how our stronger units excel at killing weaker units, and our weaker units are thrown at the stronger stuff to hopefully take it out or just slow it down.

Orks also have bad AV vehicles. Even our Go-To vehicle, the Battle Wagon is easily wiped out if you're not careful about placement. Our stuff explodes often, so be weary of your infantry and their distance to vehicles.

Ork weaponry as a whole is pretty weak. Most guns are S4 or 5 tops, and have very weak AP (Typically AP5). But when you can throw down 60 shots, saves are bound to be failed.


In summery: Orks are awesome. I don't care what anyone says. Despite their weakness compared to MEQ armies, Tau, Necrons, Eldar, etc, I always have fun playing them, win or lose. With their new update, games are much closer than with my previous book. They require some proper thinking and planning, despite their wonky nature, though they do have the ability List Tailor a lot better than they did before. You can have some awesome fluffy armies, or some serious lists that will both get work done if you plan propah.

Expect to be picking models up by the handful, and plan to have a smile on your face while doing it. Whenever a blast wrecks some of my mobs, it actually makes me smile every time because my opponent gets so excited when they do. There's just some natural glee to Greenskins. Everyone has a good time. Win or lose.

Thanks for the pros and cons list mate! Given me food for thought there. Got to say I've played dark eldar for years and they have toilet paper armour so I'm pretty used to keeping my guys in the shade. Having said that I'm fully aware I'm taking the task of a new army that is totally different to DE. It's going to be soooo much fun. I've not been this excited about the hobby since 1992

Good luck with your ork army.

I'm a Black Templar fan through and through (is this right?) but I know when I feel like trying a different army I always end up checking Ebay for Ork armies. As an Ork player once mentioned about making units.

"Scratch build/kitbash EVERYTHING" and fluffwise, it holds.

I'm a marine player and thought I'd never even consider orks. This discussion has me wanting to sell my newly acquired tau to buy up some greenskins! I started out having fun with this game but it has since then turned slightly to the competitive level. I find myself getting disappointed during games and I know I'm not supposed to as its just a game and should be fun. We have an ork player in our group and he's always laughing when you pop one of his vehicles because he gets to roll on a table to see what happens. Marines are a straight forward army and that's how you have to play em. This is seriously making me rethink everything and wanting to grab a codex for sure!!!!

No, but as I play all space marines I am prejudiced. I know Orks players aren't just playing an army, it's a lifestyle, as the first post said.

Orks iz da best fing dere iz!
Which makes me wonder why I don't play them in 40k. Orks are amazing.

As an Ork player, I can't advise getting into them now. The last Codex was brutal on us: cutting down on options, removing units and turning a once characterful army into a bland, muddled mess.

You can enjoy Orks despite their dire rules, just because Orks are awesome. I'd try and hunt down the old 2nd, and 3rd ed Codices for a better idea of how cool Orks can be. The Dreadmob list from Forge World is also a really good Ork army.

Lack of an invul save is the only thing in the new dex that truthfully hurt. The rest either changed our ways of thinking or prevented us from using a dumb tactic anyway (face it Wazdakka tactic was a horrible one, we only did it because bike spam is funny despite being horrendously overpriced)

Still wish Cybork Body was a +1 FNP not 6+ if they didnt want it to be an invul. I would love to have my bikerboss have a 4+ fnp lol

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
I'm a marine player and thought I'd never even consider orks. This discussion has me wanting to sell my newly acquired tau to buy up some greenskins! I started out having fun with this game but it has since then turned slightly to the competitive level. I find myself getting disappointed during games and I know I'm not supposed to as its just a game and should be fun. We have an ork player in our group and he's always laughing when you pop one of his vehicles because he gets to roll on a table to see what happens. Marines are a straight forward army and that's how you have to play em. This is seriously making me rethink everything and wanting to grab a codex for sure!!!!

I love this post

 Chumbalaya wrote:
As an Ork player, I can't advise getting into them now. The last Codex was brutal on us: cutting down on options, removing units and turning a once characterful army into a bland, muddled mess.

You can enjoy Orks despite their dire rules, just because Orks are awesome. I'd try and hunt down the old 2nd, and 3rd ed Codices for a better idea of how cool Orks can be. The Dreadmob list from Forge World is also a really good Ork army.

You must be playing the worst lists imaginable. I've been winning all my games since the new book came out, either to tabling or winning tactical objectives points. And it's not due to inexperienced players in my local meta. This is at a GW store that has a big group of new and old players alike. Yesterday, a friend who also plays Orks won against Eldar, and then I won against Marines/Guard. You can put together some really good stuff if you know how to play the codex well. The only instances I'm seeing where they're performing less than fantastically is when they're up against the cheesiest netlist deathstars. Big boy mobs + KFF + Painboys will win you games. PLUS you're still having all the fun that comes from playing Orks in the first place. Flash Gitz are fantastic and their models are amazing. Getting Painboys in MANz mobs is so good. Mek Gunz are fun as hell with that non-OP randomness. Cheaper rokkits all over the place - cheaper everything, basically. Even taking the slightly-more-expensive shoota mobs still works really well as a solid tactic, and Maelstrom missions seem tailor-made to help horde armies win games.

I even think the new rules make them feel fluffier than in the previous book. Being able to give large (20+) units a rerollable 5+ save makes them feel durable while not being unstoppable, and you still get the numbers, which is basically how GW fluff makes them out to be. The new Waaagh! rule also helps in that it calling it really puts the fear into the enemy, as Orks are still going to eat units alive in CC. And they're speedy even on foot - my opponents remarked yesterday that I was able to get my foot units to the middle of the board by the end of my first turn (I rolled the Warlord trait that lets units reroll run and charge distances), which fits Ork fluff as well.

There has never been a BETTER time to take up Orks.

I get that your epeen is huge and you're a big alpha male, but in your haste to start stroking you may have missed my point.

The new Codex removed characterful options, actual units and homogenized things. Mob Rule is an obnoxious time-waste of a mechanic, alternative lists are a thing of the past and Orks didn't even get much better. A solidly mid-tier army with a handful of really good formations, good units and a lot of mediocre to garbage units. Same as before, really.

On top of that, my personal army not only got forced into Unbound only, but it also went up in points! That was the final straw for me.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
I get that your epeen is huge and you're a big alpha male, but in your haste to start stroking you may have missed my point.

*snort* ...what an odd thing for you to have said.

Your complaints seem to stem from the fact that the new book changed the ways you preferred to play and you don't want to change with it. That's kind of irrelevant to people picking up the army who have never played it before. The people who are enjoying the new codex have made the best of the new rules and adapted their playstyle to work with them, and are having a good amount of success with it.

Personally, I think there are a lot more viable builds in the new book, in conjunction with rule changes in the new BRB. The last codex, due to the power creep of the meta, made it so the only viable lists were Battlewagons and big mobs (if your opponent didn't spam Ignores Cover) (hahaha). Flash Gitz are practically an entirely new unit, Tankbustas are much better than before, walkers are much more useful thanks to 5++ - which units were removed? None, I don't think (Looted wagons weren't removed from the game). Two HQ, one that people unilaterally said was terrible? Even stock Weirdboyz are much more usable now, and viable as HQ in certain types of lists. Trukk mobs got worse due to Ramshackle's changes but they weren't winning people games in the last edition either (counting on any boyz mob below 20 models to win games has been a waste for the past two editions).

I just don't see anything in your complaints and you're not backing them up with examples besides Mob Rule, which the general consensus says isn't actually that big a deal.

Units removed: Wazdakka, Zogwort, Looted Wagon (unless you pay extra and can track down a random issue of WD!)

Army builds invalidated: Troop Nobs, Troop Meganobs, Troop Dreads, Troop Bikes

For a new player, they aren't losing units, but they do have fewer options available for making their army.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
Units removed: Wazdakka, Zogwort, Looted Wagon (unless you pay extra and can track down a random issue of WD!)

: |

 Chumbalaya wrote:
Army builds invalidated: Troop Nobs, Troop Meganobs, Troop Dreads, Troop Bikes

That's not just Orks though - it looks like all 7th edition codices are removing FOC slot swapping. Probably because Unbound is now a thing which you can totally do.