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after playing in a tournament with lots of Lords of War and spending the last year trying to compete with crazy powered lists I'm wondering this question...

what's the best list that ever beat you where you came away thinking, "wow, that was an awesome list. effective, well played and there's nothing in it I'd call cheesy?"

we've all been to enough games where someone brings 3 riptides or serpent spam, or cron air etc. I've been guilty in the past myself, but as a gamer, I want to start spending more time focusing on armies I like and building lists that I'm really proud of. finish painting, have them nicely presented.

I want to be able to show up with a tournament with a strong and balanced list that I can learn to play well. It may not be the easiest to win with, but if I can find something that I DO win with, I'd love for my opponents to simply say, "well played."

what are your guy's thoughts on stuff like that?

In theory, a good list will have counters for hordes, heavy/mass vehicles, monsters and fliers. It should also cover being able to take and hold objectives and positions, which requires mobility and durability.

If you've got all those bases covered, then you should have a decent chance against any list, while still having a varied and personal army.

raoiley wrote:
after playing in a tournament with lots of Lords of War and spending the last year trying to compete with crazy powered lists I'm wondering this question...

what's the best list that ever beat you where you came away thinking, "wow, that was an awesome list. effective, well played and there's nothing in it I'd call cheesy?"

we've all been to enough games where someone brings 3 riptides or serpent spam, or cron air etc. I've been guilty in the past myself, but as a gamer, I want to start spending more time focusing on armies I like and building lists that I'm really proud of. finish painting, have them nicely presented.

I want to be able to show up with a tournament with a strong and balanced list that I can learn to play well. It may not be the easiest to win with, but if I can find something that I DO win with, I'd love for my opponents to simply say, "well played."

what are your guy's thoughts on stuff like that?

For the last 7 years, the SM codex.

This is tough because everyone's interpretation of cheese is different. I know some people who say just having a Catacomb Command Barge, or a bike-sander is cheese... or a couple wave serpents. I'm personally a little more lenient on what I would call a cheesy list, rather than a great list with some cheese.

The best list I have faced, which I wouldn't call "cheesy" is a demon list which almost tabled me in a local tournament. It was actually the same player/list who won Templecon, so it has a proven track record of being excellent, and well played. We were at the top table in the final round.

I don't remember all the details, but it had a large seeker unit, a large unit of khorne-dogs, fateweaver, another Flying Demon Prince, a couple units of pink horrors, and I'm sure there were more units but I can not remember them off-hand.

My approach to his list was very poor and he was able to quickly take advantage of my mistakes. I ended the game having a blast, but also getting tabled (only one model survived). I walked away not thinking the list beat me, but instead a savvy player who was well practiced with his list outplayed me. I had the most fun all day in that game, even though he knocked me out of the running. (came in 4th by one battlepoint) He was a super friendly and nice guy and even though things on the table top went poorly, we had fun joking and giving each other a hard time while we played. Really reminds me of what I love about 40k.

I really enjoy the Necron-AV13 list.
The only thing you are 'spamming' are different vehicles with AV13. I wouldn't call that cheesy.

I recently ran a Tri-wing list, and while not great, I felt really proud of myself for winning. I had a LR, Razorback, Rhino, Dev Squad, Libby, Tac troops, DW shooties and CCW, and bikers with attack bike and multi melta. While it was not a sweep by any means, it was a long hard fight that ended due to running out of time. Both my opponent and I left feeling satisfied with such a hard fight, and I feel part of the reason I won was through superior tactics.

I feel any game where you feel like you/your opponent won through tactics and not spam is a non cheesy list.