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So, in testing out armies that I want to play, I wanted to try a space marine army. For me, I think assault terminators are wicked cool. When I submitted a small build (of around 800 points) to a site I frequent that included assault terminators and lysander as an HQ, I was told by a few people that the terminators/Lysander were a very poor choice as They probably would never get to actually fight. I tried to get some clarification, but all I got was someone telling me that assault terminators were garbage without a landraider. I would like to break down why this might be true, and how (if at all) you might be able to make a decent list with a squad of assault terminators.

We're assuming assault terminators with 3 Thunder hammers/SS; 215 points.

As far as I can tell, the only reason it would actually be bad to play the assault terminators is that
A) You couldn't get them into combat
or
B) They got destroyed deep striking

I am not the best with the rules and am still learning, so please keep that in mind. From what I understand, you would be able to take a landraider as a dedicated transport, put the assault terminators inside, and pretty reliably get your assault terminators into a group for melee combat without the risk of dying deep striking. This is obviously way out of the point range that I'm looking at, so it's not really on the table for an option.

If I want to bring in the terminators without buying them a landraider; how should I go about it? I'm guessing what the people who were telling me that I'd never see combat were getting at is that you could perhaps destroy your own unit via rolling poorly on the mishap chart if the scatter die/dice roll is against you. How big a risk is this, really? Is it REALLY such a poor choice, and is there anything you can do to make them better in a lower point value game? How big of a game would you need to make them effective?

While I'm no master tactician, a unit of assault terminators takes up a HUGE portion of your points. I usually run them in a land raider with 5 TH/SS (bear in mind I play ONLY fluffy lists so this is of limited use).

It's a great unit to find mismatches with. For example I find it hilarious when the squad rolls up on something so squishy that is not even a fair fight (e.g. IG heavy weapons teams. ). Even assault marines have a hard time standing up to the the squad with double numbers.

It's not so much that it's a bad unit or expenditure of points in that it might be putting too many eggs in one basket.

Sure you just drilled the gak out of those Blood Angels assault marines, but the other squads that your opponent brought have boltered or objective'd the rest of the board to death.

Think of it like the Navy. (Back when navies were more than just aircraft carrier protection Details) You don't have 35 battleships you have a mix of units that can handle various obstacles. Sureyour big guns screw things over when they hit, but for the times you don't smash things into itty bitty pieces, have
something else to engage that faster moving unit.

Personally I like games between 1750 and 3000 and I always find my terminators do well if supplied correctly with things to smash.

Your mileage may vary but hey, I think we're on the same page. Just gotta get some faster other stuff to help out that army.

FM Argos

So, you are dropping 1/4 of your points on a unit that won't be on the table until turn 2-3, and when it hits takes a round of shooting to the face while forced into a tight cluster. 3 T4 2+/5++ wounds... people will have the daka to kill it dead before they even get a chance to move.

Assault terminators are cool... but for that many points you could nearly bring a land raider. Bring more boys and less toys and you will de better. Hell, bring a squad of assault marines. Cost less and can punch more.

They're golden when you face something like a squad of carnifex or some lords of war. But in low pt games they have decent chances of not meeting their favored targets and being a point sink. Atermies are a bit too specific if you ask me. And they need a landraider to utilise their full potential.

In my experience, Terminators are better in low points games, because the enemy will not have enough AP2 shooting to kill them off easily. You could even use non-storm shield ones.

Don't get me wrong, they CAN be used in any game. But in low-pt games they're gona have issues with mobility and lack of appropriate targets. Cause to engage enemie's hard hitters you got to catch them first. With slow termies, even with deepstrike, it won't be easy. You'll most likely end up deepstriking them in the backfield and killing point-holders. Still not bad but not quite point efficient. Assault marines or bikers are way better at this role. While assault marines will have issues in larger pt games, bikers will always have their place. Especially with awesome gravgunz.

If you like atermies - run them. They're not terrible - they're just not super-good in all situations. Rules change but cool models remain. Mostly...

i always say if you like the model then play it. If you like the look of the assault terminators then by all means field them. Only you can decide for yourself if they are any worth it to have on your list after using them.

With that said, my experiences with tdas haven't been as much fun since templars got rolled into SM codex. I used to run a "Blackwing" list
2 command squads with double Assault cannons
1 tactical tda squad with double Assault cannons
2 assault tda squads with hammers

This worked for awhile in 6th because of our old 4ed codex letting me bring vindicators with POTMS. Its a huge point sink army but my vindicators made short work of shooting army formations, while having any single unit survive all that shooting will mean bad things happen during my assault phase.

Losing the double special weapons in tactical tdas and potms hurts that list, but this time i get to play more boys instead. About the only time i field terminators now is in games over 2k, and mostly just to be a fire magnet so my bikers can get into assault.

Edit:
Oh and yeah, gravguns eat you for breakfast, lunch and dinner... And still gets up for a midnight snack

I had exactly the same thinking as you starting out with 750-1000 point games. I still really like the look of assault (and tactical) terminators.

However the problem is getting them into combat. If you deep strike them they will have to weather a round of shooting from your enemy before they can do anything. Seriously not cool trust me.

Walking them up the table, well yeah.

Just consider what goodies you can get for that 215 points, two 6 man assault squads will give you far more assaulting joy.

However I would say go ahead and try them out in lower point games. It may just work for you. Even if it does not work out its still a learning experience.

Maybe you should decide what's your list gona look like if/when you expand it to 1500+. If assault termies are there, why not take them right now if you ike the models that much?

Well, in small pt games you need numbers in the first place.
Five Assault Termies led by Lysander in an 800 pt game is already a large chunk of the army.

Definitely without Lysander. Cheapo libby or tech-guy are a way to go there. And i'd not combine them in 1 squad. 5 assault termies are gona obliterate anything they can encounter at such low pt games anywayz.

 Hansisaf wrote:
In my experience, Terminators are better in low points games, because the enemy will not have enough AP2 shooting to kill them off easily. You could even use non-storm shield ones.

In my experience you don't need ap2 to deal with terminators. Cultist autoguns are just as good at taking out storm shield point-sinks as they are regular terminators.

Terminators are almost never worth it IMO, I'm not even a competitive player either. I've never seen them pull their weight.

I’m one of those people who advocate taking the LR for your assault terminators. I do it from time to time, and it works for me.

In general I’m not a fan of reserving assault troops in general. You DS in, and have to take a turn of fire. Terminators are better then jump units here, as they have a better chance to live. Your opponent can also move away. Sometimes this can be a win, as moving units generally aren’t putting the same fire downrange as they would be stationary. But it can be hard to run them down with the terminators; jump troops are a little better here. But your opponent is going to have a full turn of both movement and shooting to respond to you before you get to do anything.

All that assumes you land where you want. I have a hate-hate relationship with my scatter die. Unless you are dropping very aggressively (hoping for the “hit”), you are going to be a bit away from your target even if you are lucky. You can use teleport homers and locator beacons to remove this step, but you need to plan ahead of time to use them (and they eat points)

If you want to use DSing assault terminators I would include some form of guidance for the landing. Fitting that into a low point list could be tough, as you already have the expensive terminators. One good place to get them would be drop pods. Build your list as a planet fall list. Everyone in pods, or teleporting. Another thing to add would be some scouts of some form, as they are good at getting where they want to go. They also fit from a fluff POV, scouting out the battlefield and providing homers for the rest of the force.

With the beacons you can do the aggressive drops. This makes it much harder for people to move away from you. It also lets you get better use out of LOS blocking cover, so you don’t get shot as hard.

I think that because they cant shoot, they will be quite useless walking up the table. If you put them on a point they will keep it but nothing else.

Would you consider taking normal terminators instead?
They are much more useful, since they can shoot.
Normal terminators have powerfists dont they?
So they do well in close combat anyways, against everything.
Give one of your terminators an assault cannon, it looks cool..

And dont put lysander in the same squad with them, or atleast split him off when you come higher up the table, so they can kill one squad each...