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Coppers, bobbies, peelers, rozzers, the fuzz, the old bill...

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Why does it make you feel better. Its your country no, and took multiple attempts to get anyone to notice.

Because we take every such allegation seriously. No matter how ridiculous it seems on the face of it. At the time it can be really frustrating because the number of false and malicious allegations is pretty high, but hearing about this is just a reminder that there is a point to it.

Evidently you didn't.

His area may be different. Some abuse rings go on for so long because of the areas they operate in.

Indeed, I work up in Scotland where things tend to be a bit more rigorous about dealing with such things.

 jreilly89 wrote:
How about burning pedophiles at the stake? Something I'd be in favor of

Nah, that would make you even worse than the pedophiles.
Rape is a pretty bad crime, raping a kid is even worse, but it still is not as horrible as murder.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
How about burning pedophiles at the stake? Something I'd be in favor of

Nah, that would make you even worse than the pedophiles.
Rape is a pretty bad crime, raping a kid is even worse, but it still is not as horrible as murder.

I would wholely disagree. I feel murder is sometimes justified. Can the same be said of rape?

Rape typically leads to a life of prolonged suffering and emotional damage, when somebody is killed they aren't suffering or feeling anything once they are dead. IMO being raped can be worse than being murdered, particularly when it's endured at a younger age as your mind processes everything different then when you are older. (and even then it's horrible)

jreilly89 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
How about burning pedophiles at the stake? Something I'd be in favor of

Nah, that would make you even worse than the pedophiles.
Rape is a pretty bad crime, raping a kid is even worse, but it still is not as horrible as murder.

I would wholely disagree. I feel murder is sometimes justified. Can the same be said of rape?

paulson games wrote:Rape typically leads to a life of prolonged suffering and emotional damage, when somebody is killed they aren't suffering or feeling anything once they are dead. IMO being raped can be worse than being murdered, particularly when it's endured at a younger age as your mind processes everything different then when you are older. (and even then it's horrible)

You guys are crazy.
When somebody is killed, they aren't suffering anymore, because they are fething dead. They can't feel anything anymore, it is over, gone. People who are raped are often emotionally scarred by it, but only very rarely to such an extent that they will never have happy moments or experience joy anymore. A rape victim still lives, they can still make something of their life if they have the willpower, and they can seek pshycological help to aid them in dealing with it. A dead person won't ever experience that anymore. Death is final, the end of all hope. Rape victims often say their life has been 'destroyed', but only a dead person's life has been literally destroyed. And not only that, all the relatives, who will forever have to miss their loved one can also experience severe trauma because of it.
There is no worse crime than murder. Ask yourself: Would you rather be raped or murdered?

And to jreilly89, in what scenario do you think it is justified to murder someone?

The severity of the abuse can vary a lot, take a look at what goes on over in Africa where women are being subjected to gang rapes or even machete rapes. Many of them don't survive and those that do are often severely mutilated or disfigured to the point they wish they had been killed. They amputate limbs, cut off breast, cut out their uterus, and all manner of horrors as they are basically attempting to attack their entire femininity. Severe cases of rape, and child rape are not something you "just get over" it impacts the victims ability to have relationships and their entire mental state as it fundamentally alters who they are a person. At many points in history women have opted to end their lives (and the lives of their children) rather than face rape, people have even bitten off their own tongues so they can avoid that fate, that's a pretty profound statement about the brutality and horrific nature of rape.

It doesn't just impact the victim, just like a murder it impacts their families and all of their loved ones. They know that their family member has endured extreme suffering and are powerless to help, it is extremely painful to watch somebody close to you struggle with the emotional fall out from having been raped. When somebody is killed often the first thing the family wants to know is did they suffer? Because nobody wants their loved ones to feel pain, and unfortunately rape is one of the most extreme forms of both mental and physical pain that a human being can endure as it's very much a form of torture.

While nothing replaces the loss of a loved one, knowing that they met a quick end and without pain is a form of comfort, rape does not have that comfort.

Agree with Paulson on this rape can be worse than murder, it doesn't just physically harm a person but also mentally.

Rape is bad. Machete rape (whatever that is, and no I refuse to Google it) is bad. Prolonged and repeated gang rape is bad.

But you know what? Iron_Captain is right. If you survive the rape, you have the possibility of dealing with the psychological pain and living a normal life. It isn't guaranteed, of course, and it certainly won't be easy, but you have the possibility. The scars can heal. There are plenty of rape survivors who would never choose death over violation.

If you die? Guess what?

You dead, son.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

jreilly89 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
How about burning pedophiles at the stake? Something I'd be in favor of

Nah, that would make you even worse than the pedophiles.
Rape is a pretty bad crime, raping a kid is even worse, but it still is not as horrible as murder.

I would wholely disagree. I feel murder is sometimes justified. Can the same be said of rape?

And to jreilly89, in what scenario do you think it is justified to murder someone?

Only in certain situations. I personally think the death penalty exists for a reason. It shouldn't be rolled out for everything, but I think some of the most heinous crimes deserve the right punishment. Murder in cases of self defense and abuse I feel is often justified. That's not to say that I think people should go back to the Old West days and murder each other censelessly, but I don't hold it against someone for being pushed to the brink of murder by an abusive spouse/parent.

The death penalty doesn't exist in most countries. The thing that is worrying about it is that it is most common in the kind of country that is never thought of as a shining beacon of civilisation and advanced social progress. Places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China and the like.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The death penalty doesn't exist in most countries. The thing that is worrying about it is that it is most common in the kind of country that is never thought of as a shining beacon of civilisation and advanced social progress. Places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China and the like.

Are you suggest... Oh I see what you did there;

 Iron_Captain wrote:

jreilly89 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
How about burning pedophiles at the stake? Something I'd be in favor of

Nah, that would make you even worse than the pedophiles.
Rape is a pretty bad crime, raping a kid is even worse, but it still is not as horrible as murder.

I would wholely disagree. I feel murder is sometimes justified. Can the same be said of rape?

paulson games wrote:Rape typically leads to a life of prolonged suffering and emotional damage, when somebody is killed they aren't suffering or feeling anything once they are dead. IMO being raped can be worse than being murdered, particularly when it's endured at a younger age as your mind processes everything different then when you are older. (and even then it's horrible)

You guys are crazy.
When somebody is killed, they aren't suffering anymore, because they are fething dead. They can't feel anything anymore, it is over, gone. People who are raped are often emotionally scarred by it, but only very rarely to such an extent that they will never have happy moments or experience joy anymore. A rape victim still lives, they can still make something of their life if they have the willpower, and they can seek pshycological help to aid them in dealing with it. A dead person won't ever experience that anymore. Death is final, the end of all hope. Rape victims often say their life has been 'destroyed', but only a dead person's life has been literally destroyed. And not only that, all the relatives, who will forever have to miss their loved one can also experience severe trauma because of it.
There is no worse crime than murder. Ask yourself: Would you rather be raped or murdered?

And to jreilly89, in what scenario do you think it is justified to murder someone?

This is incredibly false. Rape is still one of the most under reported crimes - and that's with women! Male rape, (yes, it really does exist), is even worse as it's almost never reported, not to mention it's still almost impossible to actually bring to trial thanks to social biases.
Here in North America, it's still estimated that up to half of all rapes go unreported by victims, whether due to intense shame, fear of reprisal/becoming a social or familial pariah, etc... Rape fs you up for life, let alone for a child or young teen who's abused/exploited by some filthy pervert. It's also well documented that child victims have a much greater risk of becoming a rapist or pedophile themselves.
Rape victims often tend to suffer in silence as well, since the act is both typically very violent, as well as utterly destroying a victim's self esteem and sense of self worth. Yes, some victims are able to put their ordeal behind them and move on, but it's estimated that the majority do not entirely, if at all, move past their psychological trauma.
Murder victims may equally suffer, but in the end it's final by the very nature of the criminal act. As they say, 'there are much worse fates than death'. Rape is certainly one of those, which can be compounded even further should the victim become pregnant as a result of her rape. The children of rape victims often end up screwed over from the word "go", as they are often seen as a living reminder of what is likely the very worst point of a person's life. (or end up in a screwed up social system due to the mother giving them up for adoption at birth)

As a woman, I would honestly rather be a murder victim than a living rape victim.


And yes, there ARE certainly those rare instances where murder is totally justified. I suggest you read the novel 'A Time to Kill' as a prime example of why in exceptional circumstance, vigilante "justice" is the right way to go about solving things.
If you can watch the end summation in the movie version and somehow not be moved to tears or feel utter revulsion and the urge to kill the gakkers yourself, then there's something very wrong with you.

squidhills wrote:
Rape is bad. Machete rape (whatever that is, and no I refuse to Google it) is bad. Prolonged and repeated gang rape is bad.

It's pretty much like it sounds, stick a machete into the person (substitute with tree branches broken bottles, pipes etc). If the woman is lucky enough to survive she's so damaged internally that she'll be unable to bear children and as a double measure they often cut off their breasts (on men they cut off the genitals). It's a widely used torture and genocide tactic in places like Rwanda, the worst part is they like to do it to the victim in front of their family and make the family watch. If they are feeling generous they'll do this repeatedly over a week's time.

I can't think of a much more horrible situation then being forced to watch your wife, daughter, or mother treated in this fashion, there's a very good chance that they won't survive and if they do they won't ever be the same. They may survive, but what type of "life" the person is left with is debatable.

(They also like to dismember people so they are unable to care for themselves yet let them live as a way to torture them on a daily basis long after the actual attack happens).

The world can be a sick fething place and in some case yes death is preferable.

Yeah, against the animals who pull off those kind of things, murder is not only justified, it's praiseworthy.

However, I'm not sure that burning pedophiles at the stake is on the same level of moral clarity.
Certainly, they deserve to be punished and removed from society until they are no longer pedophiles (whether that's be therapy, lifelong incarceration, (humanely executed) castration or execution is for wiser heads than mine to decide, but burning at the stake is a truly horrific death that no one deserves.

Experiment 626 wrote:
.
Rape victims often tend to suffer in silence as well, since the act is both typically very violent, as well as utterly destroying a victim's self esteem and sense of self worth. Yes, some victims are able to put their ordeal behind them and move on, but it's estimated that the majority do not entirely, if at all, move past their psychological trauma.

How many move past being murdered?

What's up with cops anywhere? FTP!

 paulson games wrote:
Rape typically leads to a life of prolonged suffering and emotional damage, when somebody is killed they aren't suffering or feeling anything once they are dead. IMO being raped can be worse than being murdered, particularly when it's endured at a younger age as your mind processes everything different then when you are older. (and even then it's horrible)

Yep. It opens a whole can of worms where a raped child has a comparative higher percentage chance to abuse other children, or experience other behavior disorders.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
.
Rape victims often tend to suffer in silence as well, since the act is both typically very violent, as well as utterly destroying a victim's self esteem and sense of self worth. Yes, some victims are able to put their ordeal behind them and move on, but it's estimated that the majority do not entirely, if at all, move past their psychological trauma.

How many move past being murdered?

I think that would depend on if one believes in an afterlife. If there is an afterlife you can move past death.

If there's no afterlife? then pretty much all of human existence is pointless and no amount of joy or pain we experience in our lifetime has any significance.


Personally I feel there is something beyond this lifetime, so I'm not afraid of dying as death signifies a release from all mortal pain and suffering. (If I'm wrong? I'll never know as my consciousness will simply cease to be) Either way I don't worry about it as nobody makes it out alive. In the meantime I prefer to avoid being in terrible situations like rape and torture. (and I think most people try to avoid it as well).

There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Before you go calling people idiots, you might want to give pause to ask about and consider what life experiences or insights led them to that conclusion. I know several people that were raped that are fuctional, but have never been able to let go of the fear or pain. I have heard of other experiences from parents of children who have been raped or abused that turn on younger children or even their own siblings.
Perhaps that is the experience they judge by and their life view is such, maybe through personal experience, that they believe death would be preferable.
BTW, it isn't just women that get raped.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The death penalty doesn't exist in most countries. The thing that is worrying about it is that it is most common in the kind of country that is never thought of as a shining beacon of civilisation and advanced social progress. Places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China and the like.

True. In all cases, I think said person deserves a fair trial, being innocent until proven guilty. That being said, I wouldn't expect a fair trial in any of those countries


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feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

I don't think that's fair. A guy asked me my opinion and I gave it, I never said I was right. I also feel attacking people like this, you are the "gent (who should) give your head a fething shake".

Relapse wrote:

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Before you go calling people idiots, you might want to give pause to ask about and consider what life experiences or insights led them to that conclusion. I know several people that were raped that are fuctional, but have never been able to let go of the fear or pain. I have heard of other experiences from parents of children who have been raped or abused that turn on younger children or even their own siblings.
Perhaps that is the experience they judge by and their life view is such, maybe through personal experience, that they believe death would be preferable.
BTW, it isn't just women that get raped.

Would you rather your mother, daughter, sister or wife be murdered than raped?

Interesting that you said "life experiences". Something murder victims don't have anymore.

feeder wrote:

Relapse wrote:

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Before you go calling people idiots, you might want to give pause to ask about and consider what life experiences or insights led them to that conclusion. I know several people that were raped that are fuctional, but have never been able to let go of the fear or pain. I have heard of other experiences from parents of children who have been raped or abused that turn on younger children or even their own siblings.
Perhaps that is the experience they judge by and their life view is such, maybe through personal experience, that they believe death would be preferable.
BTW, it isn't just women that get raped.

Would you rather your mother, daughter, sister or wife be murdered than raped?

Interesting that you said "life experiences". Something murder victims don't have anymore.

His point is everything is not so black and white. There's always something to consider, so no one can really make any blank statements such as being raped is better than being murdered.

feeder wrote:

Relapse wrote:

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Before you go calling people idiots, you might want to give pause to ask about and consider what life experiences or insights led them to that conclusion. I know several people that were raped that are fuctional, but have never been able to let go of the fear or pain. I have heard of other experiences from parents of children who have been raped or abused that turn on younger children or even their own siblings.
Perhaps that is the experience they judge by and their life view is such, maybe through personal experience, that they believe death would be preferable.
BTW, it isn't just women that get raped.

Would you rather your mother, daughter, sister or wife be murdered than raped?

Interesting that you said "life experiences". Something murder victims don't have anymore.

Just saying that there are more experiences out there than yours that lead people to think this about rape, and I've encountered a few. Kudos, however, on helping whoever it is that you love getting on with life after rape.

LISTEN UP ALL NONE BRITS: cops in britain are the worst. If a murder occures, they go to the place of the murder, take notes, question 70 million people, then inform friends and family of the victim if their are any leads, which there never are

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Nobody said that as a rule, but there are people that given the choice between two absolutely horrible situations may see things differently. Every victim is effected by rape differently, some move beyond it, but many do not. There's many cases in history where women have chosen suicide rather than fall victim to rape. (including instances done enmass) However in no way did I advocate saying that it's the way it should be, it's a horrible choice that nobody should be forced to make, and in an ideal world nobody should ever be subject to murder or rape.

For a short time I dated a woman that'd been repeatedly raped by family members starting at the age of 3 and it lasted until after she was 17 when she ran away from home, she suffered 14 years of abuse and the attacks have left her unable to have children and taken a very heavy toll on her mental state. Some days she's "alright" and other times she's shaking and uncontrollable when some event triggers one of her memories. She never has a "good" day and is severely bi-polar, without regular medication she quickly becomes suicidal, and has attempted suicide at least 5 times that I know of (and been in the local mental ward for extended periods each time) in addition to OD'ing on heroin several more times. She's dealt with this for over 25 years at this point and no matter how much she tries it's not something that she can casually sweep under the rug and move past. Her case was pretty severe and no matter how much love she's given by others she simply cannot heal the broken trust she has towards anyone (male or female). There's been many, many times where she has said she wishes she'd never lived through this and knowing the levels of abuse she suffered I can't say I blame her point of view as I can't even begin to imagine the horrors and pain she suffered for years.

When she's having "the bad days" there's nothing anyone can do to reach through to her as she's completely catatonic. Knowing how badly she's suffering inside tears apart the people that care for her as there's literally nothing anyone can do to help. It's something she has to carry with her every day for the rest of her life and it certainly isn't easy. When the situation is that severe it takes tremendous strength to recover from it and many never do. Their lives often get destroyed from their experiences and they often turn to drinking and drugs as a coping mechanism which drags them down even further. In her case she turned to heroin to help manage her pain and she's gone off the deep end with her addiction (I broke things off when I discovered she'd started using)

The younger the victim the worse they typically get messed up, which is why the numbers of children preyed on by this pedophile ring is particularly tragic

Da Stormlord wrote:
LISTEN UP ALL NONE BRITS: cops in britain are the worst. If a murder occures, they go to the place of the murder, take notes, question 70 million people, then inform friends and family of the victim if their are any leads, which there never are

As a) a Brit and b) a cop in Britain and c) a cop in Britain who has actually worked on half-a-dozen murders, I can say with some assurance that you're talking complete rubbish.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/06/9697/6#table1

I'll direct your attention to table 3 showing the clear-up rate for homicide over a period of ten years. Lowest rate in that period - 97%.

 paulson games wrote:

feeder wrote:
There are a whole lot of fething idiots ITT talking nonsense out their arse about being a victim of rape is worse than a victim of murder. I love someone very dearly who was molested as a child and raped as a teen. She's better off alive, believe me.

To suggest that a woman is better off dead than raped is condescending at best and straight up misogynistic at worst. FFS gents give your heads a fething shake.

Nobody said that as a rule, but there are people that given the choice between two absolutely horrible situations may see things differently. Every victim is effected by rape differently, some move beyond it, but many do not. There's many cases in history where women have chosen suicide rather than fall victim to rape. (including instances done enmass) However in no way did I advocate saying that it's the way it should be, it's a horrible choice that nobody should be forced to make, and in an ideal world nobody should ever be subject to murder or rape.

For a short time I dated a woman that'd been repeatedly raped by family members starting at the age of 3 and it lasted until after she was 17 when she ran away from home, she suffered 14 years of abuse and the attacks have left her unable to have children and taken a very heavy toll on her mental state. Some days she's "alright" and other times she's shaking and uncontrollable when some event triggers one of her memories. She never has a "good" day and is severely bi-polar, without regular medication she quickly becomes suicidal, and has attempted suicide at least 5 times that I know of (and been in the local mental ward for extended periods each time) in addition to OD'ing on heroin several more times. She's dealt with this for over 25 years at this point and no matter how much she tries it's not something that she can casually sweep under the rug and move past. Her case was pretty severe and no matter how much love she's given by others she simply cannot heal the broken trust she has towards anyone (male or female). There's been many, many times where she has said she wishes she'd never lived through this and knowing the levels of abuse she suffered I can't say I blame her point of view as I can't even begin to imagine the horrors and pain she suffered for years.

When she's having "the bad days" there's nothing anyone can do to reach through to her as she's completely catatonic. Knowing how badly she's suffering inside tears apart the people that care for her as there's literally nothing anyone can do to help. It's something she has to carry with her every day for the rest of her life and it certainly isn't easy. When the situation is that severe it takes tremendous strength to recover from it and many never do. Their lives often get destroyed from their experiences and they often turn to drinking and drugs as a coping mechanism which drags them down even further. In her case she turned to heroin to help manage her pain and she's gone off the deep end with her addiction (I broke things off when I discovered she'd started using)

The younger the victim the worse they typically get messed up, which is why the numbers of children preyed on by this pedophile ring is particularly tragic

Exalted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Gonzo wrote:

Da Stormlord wrote:
LISTEN UP ALL NONE BRITS: cops in britain are the worst. If a murder occures, they go to the place of the murder, take notes, question 70 million people, then inform friends and family of the victim if their are any leads, which there never are

As a) a Brit and b) a cop in Britain and c) a cop in Britain who has actually worked on half-a-dozen murders, I can say with some assurance that you're talking complete rubbish.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/06/9697/6#table1

I'll direct your attention to table 3 showing the clear-up rate for homicide over a period of ten years. Lowest rate in that period - 97%.

I don't think he was being serious, though, was he? It seems like the murder is being fairly well investigated from what was being said, mixed with some facetious comments.

Just watched the documentary about this on UTV, don't know how anyone can say these guys don't deserve to be executed.