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2014/08/30 15:21:41
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
And how do you know that in the first or last 15 seconds, a valid point is brought up in the video?
Because there is no valid point in proving "she's not a real gamer." It's basically holding up a flag saying "I have no real criticisms of your work, your opinions, or the subject matter being discussed so I'm going to hammer you on this one comment you made and pretend that if I prove I'm right that I won."
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slarg232 wrote: Quite often, to tell the truth. So apparently even Game Developers (Like Tim Schafer) have this elitist donkey-cave mentality you just described.
Why do you think I send them hate mail I'm gonna go write one up right now! Maybe I'll send this one by horse courier... They won't see that coming
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 15:22:56
Because there is no valid point in proving "she's not a real gamer." It's basically holding up a flag saying "I have no real criticisms of your work, your opinions, or the subject matter being discussed so I'm going to hammer you on this one comment you made and pretend that if I prove I'm right that I won."
Slarg232 wrote:
Also, how many times in this industry do you hear "Have you actually ever made a game?" from game devs? Quite often, to tell the truth. So apparently even Game Developers (Like Tim Schafer) have this elitist donkey-cave mentality you just described.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2014/08/30 15:40:02
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
And how do you know that in the first or last 15 seconds, a valid point is brought up in the video?
Because there is no valid point in proving "she's not a real gamer." It's basically holding up a flag saying "I have no real criticisms of your work, your opinions, or the subject matter being discussed so I'm going to hammer you on this one comment you made and pretend that if I prove I'm right that I won."
That wasn't the point of the video, the point is she is either lying to gamers by saying she is fan of video games, Or she is lying to her class when she says she's not a fan of video games.
Either way she's lying to someone and thus a liar.
2014/08/30 16:11:30
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
So she told one lie, therefore, everything is a lie (wait, don't tell me the cake is a lie!)?
Brilliant argument. Clearly everything she says is a lie because like most people, she's told at least 1 lie in her life.
If she doesn't play games herself, then her opinions are not going to be well informed as they could be, because she'll be getting her information from second hand sources.
Then it stands to reason the opinion itself can be attacked on its own validity (or lack there of). Not belonging to the club is a complete side issue.
Isn't that just an appeal to authority?
Game devs say it, journalists say, directors say it, soldiers say it, artists say it. Pretty much everyone who can't handle criticism at some point tries to proclaim that the criticism directed at them is invalid because the person saying it "wasn't there man".
Do you demand that anyone with an opinion on Football be a Football player or a coach? No. Because that's stupid. You don't need to play a game to observe it and form an opinion on it anymore than you need to be a gamer to look and games and have an opinion on them.
(assume) She's 'not a real gamer.' Congratulations. You've just proven the most pointless point ever, cause 'not being a real gamer' basically amounts to nothing to do with anything. If that's the best criticism anyone can come up with then the critical analysis has truly died, been kicked in the groin, hung out over a road to rot, and then water boarded and finally buried in a shallow grave with a cheap suit.
Guess what? If you're being invited to discussions on football, being paid as a football consultant, or launching criticisms on the rules of football, I would hope you have a cursory understanding of football at least, if not being a player or coach. Yeah, calling her not a real gamer is an elitist attitude, but raising concerns about her knowledge of video games isn't really that insensitive.
If you can't find a video that doesn't have a misogynistic splash page, why the hell don't you just make your own points instead?
Every time someone links a video and says "respond to this", I just roll my eyes. It's incredibly lazy, and you're trying to force me to put all the effort in to this debate while you put zero in. I don't need to respond to everyone who makes a youtube video on the topic-- and I'm not going to. One-liners linking to videos will get a one-liner response..
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 16:42:48
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/08/30 16:31:48
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
I never said that, if you'd bothered to watch the video he addressed that point.
I have seen it before and actually so has Mel (she's just sick of dealing with it I assume). It's kind of hard not to have seen it because it's been posted every time this subject comes up (roughly at least once every six months ), and no he doesn't have a point. It's 4 minutes of wasted life that gets thrown out all the time as proof she's a liar while people pretend that matters in some way to anything.
Go find me someone who has never lied once and I'll ask him to rapture me the freak out of here, because clearly it's time of the Apocalypse and I'd rather not be around when it happens.
you're being hyper-melodramatic this morning.
This morning?
Why do you think I watch so much anime? I'm all about the melodrama
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 16:33:32
I never said that, if you'd bothered to watch the video he addressed that point.
I have seen it before and actually so has Mel (she's just sick of dealing with it I assume). It's kind of hard not to have seen it because it's been posted every time this subject comes up (roughly at least once every six months ), and no he doesn't have a point. It's 4 minutes of wasted life that gets thrown out all the time as proof she's a liar while people pretend that matters in some way to anything.
Go find me someone who has never lied once and I'll ask him to rapture me the freak out of here, because clearly it's time of the Apocalypse and I'd rather not be around when it happens.
It is proof she's lying on this topic. As she's lied about her interest in video games it calls into question everything she says on the topic of video games.
Fine she says there's a trope about damsels in distress. It's her opinion, she's entitled to it. But that is not all games, it's a few first & 3rd person shooters, and some mario sytle games. Hardly a reason to opine the motivation for all male, female & other gamers who play those game and what reactions they get from it.
She got 160k to research it, it's been a year, what has her research lead to for a way forward? What research as been done? Any?
could she now be lying about these death threats? She released this information to the public, where is the police report? This whole leaving her house is highly suspicious, because if the police were trying to investigate it, she is hindering her own investigation. Maybe they should arrest her for obstruction of justice, she'll be safe in jail.
She does not strike me as anyone with any integrity.
2014/08/30 16:58:56
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
You have yet to prove that assertion. Just because you have proved it in your own head doesn't mean anything.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/08/30 17:02:55
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
sirlynchmob wrote: Well she's said both "I enjoy video games" and "I do not enjoy video game"
One has to be a lie right?
Nope. I enjoy some video games. I also don't enjoy other video games. I enjoy some aspects of a game, and don't enjoy other aspects of the same game. You don't have to ever like anything 100%, so there's not a contradiction in terms here, just you taking a quote out of context in order to attack someone you don't like.
And of course I'm not dismissing your points. You're not making any.
All you're doing is saying "but what if she isn't researching?", and "but what if she made it all up?". The only way that can be an argument is if you assume the answer to those questions are the ones you want them to be, but since that's logically fallacious I don't do that. So you have yet to make an argument.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 17:06:51
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/03/02 17:11:46
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
sirlynchmob wrote: Well she's said both "I enjoy video games" and "I do not enjoy video game"
One has to be a lie right?
Nope. I enjoy some video games. I also don't enjoy other video games. I enjoy some aspects of a game, and don't enjoy other aspects of the same game. You don't have to ever like anything 100%, so there's not a contradiction in terms here, just you taking a quote out of context in order to attack someone you don't like.
And of course I'm not dismissing your points. You're not making any.
All you're doing is saying "but what if she isn't researching?", and "but what if she made it all up?". The only way that can be an argument is if you assume the answer to those questions are the ones you want them to be, but since that's logically fallacious I don't do that. So you have yet to make an argument.
The way you worded video games is the proper way for anyone who's a gamer to say it. That is not how she said it. She had no disclaimers, just like how she fails to use any when she insults all games.
point 1. It's been a year, if she was researching anything, there would be evidence of it. to disprove point one, show me the research.
point 2. She's lying about her death threats making her leave her house. to disprove point two, show me the police report.
Until then, my opinion of her is, she does not strike me as anyone with any integrity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/30 17:13:15
2014/08/30 17:15:58
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
It's one thing to accuse her of being misleading, but to say that the existence of an entire trope is an opinion? You get points for novelty for that one
But that is not all games, it's a few first & 3rd person shooters, and some mario sytle games.
You might want to click on the video games section of the above link. Damsel in Distress is an absurdly common trope, not just in Video Games but all media.
Hardly a reason to opine the motivation for all male, female & other gamers who play those game and what reactions they get from it.
One of my issues with her is that when you make a 30 minute video, spend about 2 minutes on actual content, and the other twenty-eight pointing at things and saying "this is sexist" and occasionally repeating the other two minutes, people very quickly lose track of what you're actually talking about, especially when you're talking about a subject that's already poorly understood. Welcome to poorly made internet videos. They're not necessarily wrong. They just suck.
She got 160k to research it, it's been a year, what has her research lead to for a way forward? What research as been done? Any?
Hey man. Ripping video of Youtube and hiring someone to make a really sloppy NewGrounds video is expensive.
She does not strike me as anyone with any integrity.
Then ignore her (or come up with something better than "she's a liar nah nah nah nah nah"). All the raving against Anita has achieved in the last 2 years is making people look bad.
sirlynchmob wrote: point 1. It's been a year, if she was researching anything, there would be evidence of it. to disprove point one, show me the research.
Her videos show that she has done research, as she lists numerous examples and talks about gaming culture and game developer culture within her videos.
You have provided no proof to your assertion that she has not done any research, therefor, I must assume you have none.
sirlynchmob wrote: point 2. She's lying about her death threats making her leave her house
Citation needed.
You're the one that claimed she was lying. She provided proof of the death threats existing via a screenshot of them before they were deleted. If you want to assert that was faked, it is up to you to prove that, not me to prove that it wasn't faked. You have provided no proof to your assertion that she faked the death threat, therefor, I must assume you have none.
Conspiracy theories are not evidence. Stop giving me conspiracy theories.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/30 17:18:16
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/08/30 17:28:04
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
@melisa you can't prove a negative statement, you're asserting those to be true, prove it. The burden of proof is on you.
@lordofhats, you're as bad as your idol. All media has the damsel in destress trope? who's the damsel in distress on the big bang theory? Who's the damsel in distress on sesame street? Who's the damsel in distress on dora the explorer?
Who's the damsel in distress in minecraft? Who's the damsel in distress in farmville?
This started 2 years ago? Then she should be able to prove the negative impacts of this trope by now. I just heard about her when I jumped into the thread a few pages ago.
2014/08/30 17:34:06
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
Guess what? If you're being invited to discussions on football, being paid as a football consultant, or launching criticisms on the rules of football, I would hope you have a cursory understanding of football at least, if not being a player or coach. Yeah, calling her not a real gamer is an elitist attitude, but raising concerns about her knowledge of video games isn't really that insensitive.
Seems relevant here:
2014/08/30 17:35:46
Subject: Re:Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
Well, in the Big Bang Theory it's Penny. Funnily enough I don't watch Sesame Street or Dora The Explorer. How are you defining a Damsel In Distress?
LordOfHats is right. Damsel In Distress is an incredibly common media trope, throughout all forms of media. Vladimir Propp calls this role the Princess, and it also refers to the goal of the quest as well as a true character.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:If 40K has Future Rifles, and Future Tanks, and Future Artillery, and Future Airplanes and Future Grenades and Future Bombs, then contextually Future Swords seem somewhat questionable to use, since it means crossing Future Open Space to get Future Shot At.
Polonius wrote:I categorically reject any statement that there is such a thing as too much boob.
Coolyo294 wrote:Short answer: No.
Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
2014/08/30 17:38:54
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
You're the one that claimed she was lying. She provided proof of the death threats existing via a screenshot of them before they were deleted. If you want to assert that was faked, it is up to you to prove that, not me to prove that it wasn't faked. You have provided no proof to your assertion that she faked the death threat, therefor, I must assume you have none.
There was a picture posted of exactly that a few pages ago that brought up some "facts" (put in quotations, because I don't use Twitter so I cannot say with any veracity how the picture was gotten) in that, the person who got the screen shot was not logged in, the timing/rapidity of posts, combined with a near flawless grammar for the bulk of the posts, etc.
Again, I'm not saying with any authority that this was or was not faked, but I'm saying that there are those out there who see that and see that she/someone close to her fabricated this event.
2014/08/30 17:43:28
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
Critical reading fail. All media as in mediums. Books. Movies. Television. Theater. Games. Being a very basic trope, its one of the most commonly used by light years.
Hell, you could probably time the seasons by the appearance of a whole bunch of Damsel in Distress moments. Go to the theater, see a damsel in distress in the movie? Did you see the same in another movie last week, and another before that? Yeah it's probably summer blockbuster season.
Also;
you can't prove a negative statement. The burden of proof is on you.
That part where I said all that's been achieved about the Anita raving in the last two years just makes people look bad? Yeah this is kind of what I was talking about.
This started 2 years ago?
The British made more progress (with less figurative bloodshed) from 1914 to 1916
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 17:46:46
sirlynchmob wrote: Then she should be able to prove the negative impacts of this trope by now. I just heard about her when I jumped into the thread a few pages ago.
She cannot. Reasons:
a) Anita is not interested in actual reasoning. She wants to get attention by presenting out-of-context and opiniated information and that's it. If she did, she would not present opiniated information, she would pay attention to coherent use of information and she would use the money to conduct actual long-time studies.
b) Anita is no researcher, will never be one and does not understand how research works. The only way to prove an actual relation between tropes presentation and actual changes would be empiric evidence. And...
c) ...there is not a single proof for any sort of correlation between those two things. Not. A. Single. One. If you see someone saying "Yes, there is no proof, but it's just logical that there is a relation!", then this person is a good one to avoid when you want to seriously discuss a topic as this very person is only interested in presenting his / her own opinion instead of having an actual discussion. Some (wo)men just want to watch the world burn. Or, rather, put themselves in the spotlight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/30 17:58:41
Critical reading fail. All media as in mediums. Books. Movies. Television. Theater. Games. Being a very basic trope, its one of the most commonly used by light years.
Hell, you could probably time the seasons by the appearance of a whole bunch of Damsel in Distress moments. Go to the theater, see a damsel in distress in the movie? Yeah it's probably summer blockbuster season.
Also;
you can't prove a negative statement. The burden of proof is on you.
If you don't like the media or the tropes, why suggest people give them money to continue them? Yes it's a common story, but so what? is there any evidence that it is harmful to society? Nope. It is also not prevalent in ALL games, some games, no where near all.
If you want to claim she received death threats, or researching anything, it's up to you to prove it to me. From her wiki she gets 160,000 and makes 5 videos in 2 years, and no mention of funding any research. I wonder what she really did with the money.
2014/08/30 18:00:07
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
You're making an assertion. You must prove your assertion.
As the immortal bard once said...
Conspiracy theories are not facts. I have no obligation to give any weight to your conspiracy theories.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 18:01:56
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/08/30 18:10:37
Subject: Sarkeesian driven out of home by online abuse and death threats
Sometimes I regret the invention of the internet solely because people throw out logical fallacies while utterly failing to apply them properly. You might want to finish reading the intro to that page... At least the first five sentences.
If you don't like the media or the tropes, why suggest people give them money to continue them?
Where'd I suggest that?I freaking love tropes. I spend more time on TV Tropes than I do on Dakka
Also:
If you want to claim she received death threats, or researching anything, it's up to you to prove it to me
point 1. It's been a year, if she was researching anything, there would be evidence of it. to disprove point one, show me the research. point 2. She's lying about her death threats making her leave her house. to disprove point two, show me the police report.
You made the assertions that she is lying. Melissa says you have no proof. You then demand she provide proof she isn't lying and then when I point out to you that you're shifting burden of proof, you try to throw AoI out. That's just ironic gold. I love ironic gold.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/30 18:13:27
I have proof that I am actually Matt Ward. I use a picture from Codex: Sisters of Battle from 2nd edition as my avatar. That is the undeniable proof that I am Matt Ward, and therefore your spiritual liege.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/30 18:26:33
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I'm gonna go write one up right now! Maybe I'll send this one by horse courier... They won't see that coming 
~1.5k
), and no he doesn't have a point. It's 4 minutes of wasted life that gets thrown out all the time as proof she's a liar while people pretend that matters in some way to anything.
? Tropes are not bad, but they can be overused or misused.