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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Oh and Bloodwing.

Is Bloodwing a male or female??

Both. It changes thoughout it's life.

In Borderlands Mordecai refers to Bloodwing as male, however in Borderlands 2 Mordecai refers to Bloodwing as female. According to the lead writer, this is because Bloodwing's species is sequentially protandric and changes gender half way through life.

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodwing

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
.... Zelda, Mario, and all the "Main aggressors" of the Damsel in Distress plot are made in the East.....

And then for western games, there is Earthworm Jim, Battletoads, Dragon's Lair, and tons of other games that are now basically almost entirely forgotten, but that were BIG in their time. And those were forgotten because they have not “ gotten sequels out the wazoo”. Ever heard of Double Dragon? Huge series at some point, now forgotten. So, not, at one time, it was really a ton of games that were using this trope, not just two series. If you bought a TMNT game, you could quite likely expect April to be captured and you would have to rescue her. It did not happen in every TMNT games, but in quite a few. It was the default plot.

Earthworm Jim: Parody of all the mainstream titles.

Battletoads: No one got past level 3, story doesn't matter.

Dragon's Lair: Classic tale of Knight, Dragon, Damsel.

All the others that are forgotten: Well it seems we don't remember them for a reason, doesn't it?

Actually, most TMNT games I remember had April in the role of Reporter, not anything else. Usually as a Narrator.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, the most famous use of the "Damsel in Distress" trope was in the story of Saint George and the Dragon, which dates back to the middle ages, and is a firm part of Western culture.

Yes, but in Vidja Games, most of the main users of the trope come from Japan.

Art does imitate life, so a trope that's been around since the first written stories is still going to appear in our art.

But with the length of time it's been used, what is it's effect on our culture? Is it a positive one or a negative one? (If anyone answers this question they better link the research or admit it's your opinion)

Until research can be done on the topic, pointing out the trope is equatable to pointing out the sun is yellow.

It's the other way around. It's how men and women work.

Men are...simple in that regard. In order to be motivated, they just need a female in danger and wham, they're motivated. It's always been like that. And by "always", I mean...always. Neandertal tiam.

Women are more difficult. In order to develop a feeling similar to men, just having a member of the opposite sex isn't sufficient, they need to develop an emotional bond to them - and that's just way harder to have in a game than the former.

There's more detail to it, like men being able to immediately activate their adrenaline to save a female, whereas the other way around is more difficult. There are quite a few stories about women being able to lift a car to save their child - adrenaline.

There's tons of stuff to it but the tl;dr is:

"UGH, UGH, LOOKY WOMAN MAYBE SEX UGH"

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's the other way around. It's how men and women work.

Men are...simple in that regard. In order to be motivated, they just need a female in danger and wham, they're motivated. It's always been like that. And by "always", I mean...always. Neandertal tiam.

Women are more difficult. In order to develop a feeling similar to men, just having a member of the opposite sex isn't sufficient, they need to develop an emotional bond to them - and that's just way harder to have in a game than the former.

There's more detail to it, like men being able to immediately activate their adrenaline to save a female, whereas the other way around is more difficult. There are quite a few stories about women being able to lift a car to save their child - adrenaline.

There's tons of stuff to it but the tl;dr is:

"UGH, UGH, LOOKY WOMAN MAYBE SEX UGH"

TIL: I'm not a man.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's the other way around. It's how men and women work.

Men are...simple in that regard. In order to be motivated, they just need a female in danger and wham, they're motivated. It's always been like that. And by "always", I mean...always. Neandertal tiam.

Women are more difficult. In order to develop a feeling similar to men, just having a member of the opposite sex isn't sufficient, they need to develop an emotional bond to them - and that's just way harder to have in a game than the former.

There's more detail to it, like men being able to immediately activate their adrenaline to save a female, whereas the other way around is more difficult. There are quite a few stories about women being able to lift a car to save their child - adrenaline.

There's tons of stuff to it but the tl;dr is:

"UGH, UGH, LOOKY WOMAN MAYBE SEX UGH"

I guess I'm the odd man out then, because in those games I just want the gold and the XP. And if she's not worth much, or isn't a part of the main story that I have to get through, she's going to be there a long while.

Oh my...

 Slarg232 wrote:
Earthworm Jim: Parody of all the mainstream titles.

So the mainstream titles did it. And not just Mario or Zelda, because Earthworm Jim sure looks like neither.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Battletoads: No one got past level 3, story doesn't matter.

Still counts.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Dragon's Lair: Classic tale of Knight, Dragon, Damsel.

Yeah, it does not need to be original still counts as one example.

 Slarg232 wrote:
All the others that are forgotten: Well it seems we don't remember them for a reason, doesn't it?

Yes, that reason being that they had no gazillion of sequels. Really, there is no reason to remember the first Mario over the Double Dragon series.
Can I remind you of Ghouls and Ghosts? That is another extremely famous in his time game with some damsel in it. What about freaking Prince of Persia?

sirlynchmob wrote:


I guess I'm the odd man out then, because in those games I just want the gold and the XP. And if she's not worth much, or isn't a part of the main story that I have to get through, she's going to be there a long while.

I merely stated that this is a typical male mechanism - and as with all of them, such as sex drive, hunger, pain resistance, etc., they vary from individual to individual. But wait, there's more! In a game, there are more conflicting reward systems, such as XP, money, trophies etc. It's very muddy. The above is just an explanation why one iteration of the trope in regards to one gender is more prominent than vice versa!

Video that connects Quinn to Anita, to a misogynist and corruption and fraud, its right there, not that the SJWs will actually acknowledge it as evidence.




Try watching the whole thing before you comment.

I am not going to spend 29 precious minutes of my life watching some video called Quinnspiracy Theory .

If you honestly believe that video has anything resembling what you claim it does, you will certainly have no problem typing the supposed evidence out.



In before it's just another conspiracy theory video and he doesn't post anything, instead simply attacking people for not watching the video which supposedly contains "the truth".

Skip to the 23:00 if you want to see the Quinn Anita connection. Devin Faraci. Good old Devin Faraci. Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

Basic point of the video; Game journalists have attempted to sweep their unethical conduct under the rug in various ways, with many unconnected or side media sources like Forbes, joining in in helping them try to side step the issues underlying 'GamerGate.'

There's actually some decent things in there about midway through, namely citing several examples of Kotaku writers having a conflict of interest and asking why Kotaku's leadership is only paying attention to it now being a good highlight of the video. Also agree with his criticism of Patreon. I liked the idea behind that service when it first came up but it has kind of become supportabum.com.

Also probably something to a point he kind of hints at; presenting some of these social issues as a problem with gamers themselves, might have been a terrible idea that's backfired horribly. Rather than looking at games and their place in a larger culture, they're created a line of discussion that seems specifically targeted at gamers and has relied too much on treating gamers as the adversary (which regardless of reality, and this is my opinion here) might have overly polarized things.

I give it a 7/10. Could have been ten minutes shorter and more straight to the point but of well.

Never heard of David Faraci, the only thing I see about him is that he accused a few female journalists of being pornstars of some kind or other. Could you be more specific?

 Melissia wrote:
Never heard of David Faraci, the only thing I see about him is that he accused a few female journalists of being pornstars of some kind or other. Could you be more specific?

He's one of a limited number of people who has made a living off being a professional internet troll. Over the years he's been found saying really really sexist things (including a famous incident where he used some of his social media accounts to dox women on the internet, revealing their addresses and encouraging people to go to their homes and attack them). He's also held on and off paying work as a journalist at various outlets and is currently employed as an editor with Baddass Digest, which recently published an article linking the hate pointed at Quinn with that pointed at Anita and being critical of gamers. The above video links Anita's approval of the Baddass Digest article as hypocritical of her stances when Devin Faraci is an editor at the site as well as pointing out some legitimately strange support for Anita and Quinn by Faraci for a guy so famous for being a pig.

He's basically a media whore on social networks who does whatever he likes while being a journalist on the side.

What evidence did they provide of their supposed links?

 Melissia wrote:
What evidence did they provide of their supposed links?

Screen shots from Feminist Frequency website (linking to the Badass Digest article) and one of Devin's social media accounts (where he states ISIS is more respectable than the people attacking Quinn, which is pretty funny )

It's kind of shallow as a 'connection' but it is kind of funny. I mean, Anita probably doesn't even know Faraci works for Badass Digest. His name isn't exactly plastered over the site. Just one of those funny things that happens when people are on the internet and linking things. The funniest part of that bit is seeing Devin Faraci's ISIS comment considering his history

Hm. The latter I don't really count as evidence (just some bag being a douche to get attention; basically, it's Reddit in a nutshell; I don't expect peopel who are busy with other things to look at everyone who mentions them on twitter after all, I sure as hell don't). I'd have to see the former article in question in order to really see if it would bother me.

The article in question

I rather enjoyed the description of Phil Fish as 'volatile.' Bit of an understatement . Personally though I see no reason why Sarkeesian wouldn't like the article. Seems like something she'd like, and just because Devin Faraci is an editor at the site doesn't mean he handles all their articles (though it does raise questions why the site would employ him with his background) XD

Okay video. Good fact presentation, but too long. Should have been around 10 minutes long.

 LordofHats wrote:
The article in question

I rather enjoyed the description of Phil Fish as 'volatile.' Bit of an understatement . Personally though I see no reason why Sarkeesian wouldn't like the article. Seems like something she'd like, and just because Devin Faraci is an editor at the site doesn't mean he handles all their articles (though it does raise questions why the site would employ him with his background) XD

Yeah. The article you linked was written by Andrew Todd, so I don't really see that as a link to this Faraci guy any more than hotlinking a Fox news article means you're connected with Rupert Murdoch.

 Melissia wrote:
Hm. The latter I don't really count as evidence (just some bag being a douche to get attention; basically, it's Reddit in a nutshell; I don't expect peopel who are busy with other things to look at everyone who mentions them on twitter after all, I sure as hell don't). I'd have to see the former article in question in order to really see if it would bother me.

Im surprised you're not really upset about Zoe Quinn and Maya Kramer crashing the Fine Young Capitalists game jam.

That's the first time that accusation has been mentioned in 25 pages of discussion, so why are you surprised?

 Melissia wrote:
That's the first time that accusation has been mentioned in 25 pages of discussion, so why are you surprised?

You just haven't mentioned it, its women attacking other women in gaming and there hasn't been any repercussions. It seems something that you'd be championing. This isn't an attack just a genuine query. It seems like its all connected and you'd be more upset with the more people are connected to that.

She has a point. It hasn't actually been mentioned and unlike the rest of us, I don't think she's bouncing between the threads on this. Brief on the incident;



And yes, this has been effectively confirmed as essentially being what happened as Quinn and those who helped her railroad the event did so publicly on social media sites and bragged about it. This incident is what eventually led to 4chan's "wtf let's do something nice for a change" decision and they ended up being the ones who backed the Games Jam event and are now working with FYC on some other projects.

I'm not interested in listening to the philosophical equivalent of proselytizing. Where is your evidence for the accusation?

 LordofHats wrote:
[img snip]

And yes, this has been effectively confirmed as essentially being what happened as Quinn and those who helped her railroad the event did so publicly on social media sites and bragged about it. This incident is what eventually led to 4chan's "wtf let's do something nice for a change" decision and they ended up being the ones who backed the Games Jam event and are now working with FYC on some other projects.

If that's true, it certainly sounds like Quinn was being total donkey-cave.

 Melissia wrote:
I'm not interested in listening to the philosophical equivalent of proselytizing. Where is your evidence for the accusation?

 LordofHats wrote:
[img snip]

And yes, this has been effectively confirmed as essentially being what happened as Quinn and those who helped her railroad the event did so publicly on social media sites and bragged about it. This incident is what eventually led to 4chan's "wtf let's do something nice for a change" decision and they ended up being the ones who backed the Games Jam event and are now working with FYC on some other projects.

If that's true, it certainly sounds like Quinn was being total donkey-cave.

That's what I'm getting at, I thought you knew about the fine young capitalists game jam being attacked by Zoe Quinn and Maya Kramer and it being confirmed publicly in tweets and other sources.

It was the first time I ever heard of it.

The only thing regarding Quinn anyone ever talked about to me was that she supposedly cheated on a now ex-boyfriend whom showed himself to be a vicious, spiteful ass whose words can't really be trusted as a result of how he has handled the situation.

And that includes on this forum.

That said, I still see her being an donkey-cave (and she was, and if that happened she certainly deserved to be called out for being an ass) as less of a problem than the wave of violent misogyny that resulted from the accusations of adultery.

 Melissia wrote:
It was the first time I ever heard of it.

It was in a few of the videos you had no interest in watching, IIRC.

 Melissia wrote:
It was the first time I ever heard of it.

The only thing regarding Quinn anyone ever talked about to me was that she supposedly cheated on a now ex-boyfriend whom showed himself to be a vicious, spiteful ass whose words can't really be trusted as a result of how he has handled the situation.

And that includes on this forum.

That said, I still see her being an donkey-cave (and she was, and if that happened she certainly deserved to be called out for being an ass) as less of a problem than the wave of violent misogyny that resulted from the accusations of adultery.

Well Zoe Quinn and Maya Kramer crashed that game jam and crashed Matti Leshams the year before, and this was before Zoe was announced the head of Rebel Game Jam, something she hasn't updated since march and is accepting money for to her personal paypal with numerous journalists providing money via that and her Patreon. Then the fine young capitalists indiegogo was crashed as well with again Zoe and Maya publicly congratulating themselves. Maya and Robin Arnott (one of the "five guys") gave her an award for her game. Maya works at a PR company that Anita and John McIntosh (Anitas BF) are advisors for. It also doesn't help everyone is pretty much in the same city.

Its when all the game journalist sites reported that "gamers are toxic" on the same day it feels like there is a coordinated effort to attack certain aspects, like a PR company would organize. But there is no connection to that so far. Its just a series of people doing borderline illegal and unethical things with no repercussion is one of the problems, another problem is the smoke screens and muddying of the situation by using sexism as a defence. There will be bad apples out there no matter what in every aspect and walk of life and it sucks people are focusing just on them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It was the first time I ever heard of it.

It was in a few of the videos you had no interest in watching, IIRC.

To be fair it was buried in some of them and mentioned in passing, I think the fine young capitalist aspect should be the focal point.

Oh and I forgot to mention, when Zoe Quinn crashed Matti Leshams game jam (who she was working under) she totally through him under the bus and got him fired and it was a huge story that the gamer Journalists put up everywhere, so its a little odd they are protecting Zoe Quinn after she fully admits to purposely crashing that and the FYCs stuff.