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I'd like to start a post that addresses ways to bolster the ork leadership.

Boss pole, the Big Boss Pole, Grotznick. What else do we have?

- You can join named characters, warbosses or big meks to your units.
- When rolling on command traits for your warlord traits (IMHO the best table for orks), they might even spread it to nearby units.
- By fielding Grukk, Zagstrukk, or rolling on the ork warlord table you can get rerolls for LD.
- Stompa and the Council of Waaagh! dish out fearless to units nearby.

I don't think ork LD is too bad though. Outside of fear tests and some psychic powers, a mob with a character has at least the same chance at passing tests as LD8, a boss pole even bumps that to LD9. In combat or above 10 models it even becomes a lot higher.

But LD 8 army wide for an army which is designed to suffer many casualties (and thus roll lots of morale tests) is pretty crap.Space marine units with LD 8 suffer from this and they have ATSKNF to help out.

@OP Jidmah's pretty much got you covered with your options. The tricky part is arranging the points and characters per unit so that you don't overspend on non critical units and your critical units don't have to rely LD 7 or LD8 equivalent

Mob rule really keeps them together anyway. Jam painboys in mobs and shrug things off.

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
But LD 8 army wide for an army which is designed to suffer many casualties (and thus roll lots of morale tests) is pretty crap.Space marine units with LD 8 suffer from this and they have ATSKNF to help out.

@OP Jidmah's pretty much got you covered with your options. The tricky part is arranging the points and characters per unit so that you don't overspend on non critical units and your critical units don't have to rely LD 7 or LD8 equivalent

Still with the hyperbole? LD9 if you have a boss pole, which you should. I think koptaz is the only unit without access to it.

Nah man, don't make it personal, it not hyperbole, this

 Jidmah wrote:

I have not yet failed a single pinning or moral test with the new codex all thanks to mob rule.

is hyperbole.
Manz missiles fail pinning tests all the time, things in Trukks have to take pinning and casualty test like peanuts and Tanbustaz or even boyz in Battlewagon worry about a melta on a drop pod, bike or the Wolf flyer.
Maybe you plain alot of Necrons/Eldar/Tau who glance you to death, or you got a boat load of stuff on foot YMMV
But if it wasn't an issue this topic would not be coming up in every in few ork threads all over the internet.
I stand by what I said:
28% chance to fail any morale or pinning test is pretty bad on a army designed to take casualties. We can also discuss the vunerability of the character in the unit that buffs the Ld from 42% to 28% (or 19% with the BP)

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
Nah man, don't make it personal, it not hyperbole, this

 Jidmah wrote:

I have not yet failed a single pinning or moral test with the new codex all thanks to mob rule.

is hyperbole.

Actualy it's fact. In about twelve games I have yet to fail a single test. Anecdotal, but fact. You should look up the definition of hyperbole

Manz missiles fail pinning tests all the time, things in Trukks have to take pinning and casualty test like peanuts and Tanbustaz or even boyz in Battlewagon worry about a melta on a drop pod, bike or the Wolf flyer.

All the time = about 17% of the time, as I've shown in the last thread were you were posting your nonsense. "I roll sixes all the time" is about as accurate. And hyperbole, in case you weren't sure.

Maybe you plain alot of Necrons/Eldar/Tau who glance you to death, or you got a boat load of stuff on foot YMMV

Newsflash: Even a melta has a whooping 67% chance of not exploding open topped AV10. Trukks are still not a competitive choice to base an army around, by the way.

But if it wasn't an issue this topic would not be coming up in every in few ork threads all over the internet.

So we're at "I must be right, it's on the internet!"? Of course, I guess that's a much more valid point than statistics and actual experience/battlereports.

I stand by what I said:
28% chance to fail any morale or pinning test is pretty bad on a army designed to take casualties. We can also discuss the vunerability of the character in the unit that buffs the Ld from 42% to 28% (or 19% with the BP)

You point has been proven wrong, as have all those numbers been. You might as well keep claiming that earth is a disc. By chance, do you also believe in creationism?

It's not hyperbole if it's the truth. I haven't failed a Mob Rule test either.

The fact is that when the codex changed it changed the way you had to design lists and units to be the most successful. In 6th I wasn't even putting Nobs with bosspoles in my big 30-boy blobs because by the time they got whittled down enough for that to come into play, if you're going to fail one LD test you're likely going to fail two. Now, I make sure there's at least one bosspole in any unit, two for redundancy.

On topic: the Council of Waaagh lets any unit reroll any failed morale or pinning tests within 12" of the Council's unit, which could potentially cover most of an army's units. I wouldn't take it JUST for that ability but it's a really nice benefit.

Dude!! Did I offend you internet status or something? Your coming across as awfully hostile and you have played all of 12 games with the new dex?. Chill out try and assume that I am a person standing next to you and we can have a disagreement without insults yeap?
Now we agree on the numbers mostly
Units out of combat and under 10 fail ld
41.67% without a character
27.8% with a character
and 18.6% with a character and a bosspole.
What we disagree on is the significance of those numbers. For most armies Ld is rarely a weakness
Sm of all kinds have mediocre LD but ATSKNF me that they can survive a failure with little consequence.
Necrons are LD 10 armywide
Tyranids are Fearless when built properly
Demons dont give a tiddly toss about ld out of combat
Eldar are safe in their awesome boxes of death
Ig have some weakness which they can overcome with stubborn, commisars and orders
Tau can have problems with pinning without an ethreal nearby
Orks have permanent issues.

I am not claiming "it's on the internet, it's right" but general tendancies and consensus are an indication. Every tau list plays Riptides- Riptides are good. Every eldar plays wave serpents -wave serpents are good.(this is hyperbole but you get my point ) If several ork players are having trouble with ld = ork ld is a problem

On the point of the exploding trukk, the melta you said has a 33% chance of exploding a Trukk. I think those are great odds and in fact the best inthe game. 3 meltas in a unit is a almost a certain explosion. You think whopping odds of no explosion.

What do you play at around 1850? Would you mind sharing, maybe you have abetter list or some combo that minimizes what I feel is a problem with Ork LD

So only Tau and Orks 'suffer' from a bad leadership?
If only their troops weren't 6 and 9 points

I personally like this change from the old codex.
Morale checks and the like are there for a reason, it's weird that nearly every army had something to ignore it.

Tau doesnt really suffer from leadership either, since they have Ld10 bubbles from Ethereals and LD10 commanders. Any unit that isnt near an ethereal or attached by a commander usually never even gets a morale check, theyre just wiped off due to small numbers.

And Tau are not really vulnerable to fear even without the LD10 bubble because they are so bad at melee as it is, passing a fear check wont really make a difference against anything that actually causes fear lol.

Orks on the other hand can easily deal with things that have fear, provided they pass the fear check. Without the LD10 bubble, or even LD9 from a warboss with the proppa Command trait, they succumb to fear way too easy imo. Mob Rule should really affect ALL leaderships.
Considering the bulk of the ork force is melee orientated, this is really painful to be susceptible to fear.

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:

Orks have permanent issues.

This isn't true, though, and you broke down why in your last post. You included several instances that are circumstantial, such as IG getting orders, Eldar being in a vehicle and Tyranids needing the proper builds. Orks can still get fearless with a big bosspole, being in 6" of a Stompa or being in a unit with Mad Dok Grotsnik. You can also have units with Fearless, such as the Council of Waaagh/Da Bully Boyz - I may have missed some more. A green tide with a big bosspole granting fearless is tournament competitive, as well. It's just not a big deal in the slightest

Green Tide with Big Boss Pole....

I must get this damn ghazzy supp...lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Green Tide with Big Boss Pole....

I must get this damn ghazzy supp...lol

it's so good

there have been a few conversations here about how it's practically indestructible as a unit.

I don't get it. You complaing about how MANz get pinned all the time even though they are actually 2 times better here than before.

4-th dex: truck kabooms - happened 2/3 of the times and it was easier to get Explode! in the first place. Manz pass ld7 test.
7-th dex: truck gets wrecked/kabooms - happens less often and soaks up more fire due to new vehicle damage table. Manz pass ld7. If failed, they roll extra d3 and have 5/9 chance to be fine and just recieve d6 s4 ap- wounds thanks to new mov rule and ability to take bosspole.

Even if we don't consider changes in truck's durability, they've allready gotten 2 times better at passing pinning and ld tests.

Yep, your get it right, blobs are now vulnerable to ld stuff. But come on, if you want to get everything for free you got to play eldar and not orkses. No offence The new mob rule just helps out smaller squads and penalizes big ones. That's not good or bad. You got to deal with it.

stormclaw is the answer I like

take Grukk Face-Rippa as your warlord as he gets bellowing tyrant. Trail your boy mobs so 1 boy stays within 12" of him and you get two chances to pass morale, and 2 chances on the mob rule table. I still take bosspoles for my nobs.

its 58.33% to pass with a LD 7, so with 2 rolls you should statistically always pass.

sirlynchmob wrote:

its 58.33% to pass with a LD 7, so with 2 rolls you should statistically always pass.

82.6% to pass ld7 with reroll...assuming it's really 58.3% to pass LD7 in the first place =D

When you factor in the mob rule on that failed ld, it's like 1/36 further for a 10+ strong squad. It's a total of 0.48% to fail.

sirlynchmob wrote:
stormclaw is the answer I like

take Grukk Face-Rippa as your warlord as he gets bellowing tyrant. Trail your boy mobs so 1 boy stays within 12" of him and you get two chances to pass morale, and 2 chances on the mob rule table. I still take bosspoles for my nobs.

its 58.33% to pass with a LD 7, so with 2 rolls you should statistically always pass.

no... you still have a 41.77% fail rate.

Cumulative events do not effect individual probability. Cumulative probability does.

IE Q1 what is the probability you roll 6 on one d6 six times? 1/6. Woo
IE Q2 what is the probability you roll 6 6's with d6s at once? 1/6^6. Woo.

The difference is significant and often misunderstood. I use to have trouble grasping the difference, but it is clear after much practice.

If Mega Armour being pinned is your problem, Da Bully Boyz formation is fearless.