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I can't figure out which one is better. There are many instances where you have this option and I wondered which loadout was better?

I think it depends a lot on the unit which is taking the option and what that unit's purpose is. An Anvil unit would benefit more from a shield and a hand weapon for armor and parry saves. A hammer unit with good strength like WOC would benefit more from 2x hand weapons.

^This.

Anvils take shields and hammers take 2 weapons.

What army do you play?

2x hand weapons is almost always an inferior choice to... well just about any other choice. 2x hand weapons only benefits the front unit fighting, since units in supporting ranks (i.e., ranks 2+) don't get the bonus attack.

The main exception I can think of is Beastmen Gors. Their only choice is XHW or HW/S. As their armor is already nonexistant, and Primal Frenzy (their only special rule) is offense oriented, XHW fits their stats and special rules far better than HW/S.

I've got the ultimate example right here: Savage Orc Big 'Uns. Frenzy and Warpaint makes a Parry save worthless.

Small units make better use of extra hand weapons, since they're getting the same benefit at less cost. But it really does depend on the unit.
I'd say that S3 and less should use shields. S4 is a toss-up. Above that, an extra attack per model in the front rank can add up.

Then, of course, there's things like halberds and great weapons. On average, you're better off making one attack more likely to cause an unsaved wound than getting another chance to cause a wound. Then again, you've got a more consistent average and a higher maximum output.

 streamdragon wrote:
2x hand weapons is almost always an inferior choice to... well just about any other choice. 2x hand weapons only benefits the front unit fighting, since units in supporting ranks (i.e., ranks 2+) don't get the bonus attack.

This.

There almost no instances in the entire game where getting ANYTHING < AHW. Spears, Shields, GW, Halberds, Flails, etc. They are almost always costed better. I can't remember Gors offhand, but WoC Trolls come to mind because...they can't take anything else at all.

Basically, normal infantry can add the extra attack. Monstrous CAN, but 99% of all monstrous troops have 3+ attacks and thus they can't add anymore than 3. If you find some oddball Monstrous with 2 attacks that can rank up, then it would be worth it if it's cost right. But basically, for every weapon, you're getting something. +1S, +1 armor/parry, +2S. AHW is the only one where that applies only to the very front rank (almost every time).

It's unfortunate, but it's how it is now.

Spears and extra hand weapons are a close one.
Extra hand weapons confer the same bonus as spears, but work whether you charged or not, and continue to work when the unit begins to lose ranks.
Spears let you get +1 armour from shields, but that usually costs more, too. Then again, extra hand weapons usually cost as much or more than spears and shields combined.

I am going to take a guess and assume the OP is asking about greenskins.

1. Which models do you have? If you pick up lots of 5th edition boxsets you can have a whole lot of two choppa orcs and arrer boyz, both are worth having and this will settle the issue for you.

Two core 5th Ed boxsets will yield: 2 boar chariots, 35 orc boyz with two choppas inc command, 35 orc arrer boyz with command. Two character orcs. All this is useful and in about the right numbers.

2. If you have orcs from the current kits, or the old multipose I would go with choppa and shield. For a start you can still pick up some 5th Ed boxsets later on eBay and have both, you cant have too many orcs after all, the orc chariot is somewhat pricy for what it does but the miniature is very cool and it holds out well amongst modern sculpts and it can help drop the hammer, which is good if you take advice and take your two choppa units as small attrition units.

3, Metagame speaking for orcs I would still go with choppa and shield. You get a 5+/6++ which isn't bad and S4 on the first round of combat. vs 6+ and +1A for first rank. I don't think thats an even tradeoff at all, but as there is nothing too wrong with two choppas either; so if you end up with lots of the single pose 5th Ed minitures (recommended) you can still field them.
Previous advice is correct, large units need choppa and shield, small units do better with two choppas for density of attacks in a low price package (and equally low survival probabilities in sustained combat).

4. If you are asking about gobbos go with hand weapon and shield every time, though spear and shield will do, its not the number of attacks that matter, its only about the number of ranks.

5. If you aren't talking about O&G, Waagh 18, then you are gathering da wrong army!

 Orlanth wrote:
I am going to take a guess and assume the OP is asking about greenskins.

1. Which models do you have? If you pick up lots of 5th edition boxsets you can have a whole lot of two choppa orcs and arrer boyz, both are worth having and this will settle the issue for you.

Two core 5th Ed boxsets will yield: 2 boar chariots, 35 orc boyz with two choppas inc command, 35 orc arrer boyz with command. Two character orcs. All this is useful and in about the right numbers.

2. If you have orcs from the current kits, or the old multipose I would go with choppa and shield. For a start you can still pick up some 5th Ed boxsets later on eBay and have both, you cant have too many orcs after all, the orc chariot is somewhat pricy for what it does but the miniature is very cool and it holds out well amongst modern sculpts and it can help drop the hammer, which is good if you take advice and take your two choppa units as small attrition units.

3, Metagame speaking for orcs I would still go with choppa and shield. You get a 5+/6++ which isn't bad and S4 on the first round of combat. vs 6+ and +1A for first rank. I don't think thats an even tradeoff at all, but as there is nothing too wrong with two choppas either; so if you end up with lots of the single pose 5th Ed minitures (recommended) you can still field them.
Previous advice is correct, large units need choppa and shield, small units do better with two choppas for density of attacks in a low price package (and equally low survival probabilities in sustained combat).

4. If you are asking about gobbos go with hand weapon and shield every time, though spear and shield will do, its not the number of attacks that matter, its only about the number of ranks.

5. If you aren't talking about O&G, Waagh 18, then you are gathering da wrong army!

You guessed it. O&G was what I was wondering about. I am working on gathering an army after my orks 40k army and looking for advice before purchase. Very insightful post

Should clarify.

I meant 6th edition boxsets.

This is what you get:


TIP, as you only want the miniatures consider foreign language sites. I bough mine on german ebay, box and books came in deutch, but the miniatures came in plastic.

This is still the only reasonable way to get arrer boyz. You dont need arrer boyz but they work.
You will need to buy new chariot bases as the old style two cav bases arent used anymore, and it looks sicky. Chariot is so so, woldf chariot is better, but the boar chariot model is excellent and had extra bits for limited customisation. I try and fit them in lists just because of how cool they look.



Limited pose on the infantry, and you only get one command group sprue (multipose), but I recommend two boxsets as you need bigger units anyway, so it all evens out.

Tip: Cut and repose some of the orcs on the above sprues (you get four of this sprue), it weill help with ranking up and you can repose a little for variety. You can if you wish completely repose and if you have shield spruies convert these orcs into choppa and shield. Again choppa and shield is actually definitely better, but there isn't too much in it, your army will not be gimped if you run them as is.
You may have a spare arrer boy (you ought to as 30 is the optimum unit size in three ranks) they all get to shoot all get to chop and have full command and reasonable rank bopnus, not bad for 'archers'. If you cut off the spare arrer boy's left arm and quiver, the pose is just right for the model to be converted into a shaman. The right arm loosing the arrow also looks likes its casting you see and the figure is unarmoured, convert up a new left arm with a scratchbuilt staff, add bitz to taste and you have a fairly effective orc shaman model.

the Empire stuff isn't bad either, as 6th edition boxsets are easy to find cheap if you look hard enough and dont grab the first one you see.

A set of Skull Pass (7th edition) night goblins is also a good rounding point.



Its not anywhere near enough for a gobbo army, but even a single boxset is a decent enough contingent.

One troll - nuff said.
Ten spider riders with full command - small but reaosnable support unit.
Twenty night goblin archers, with full command -- just enough for two ranks cheap shooting
2x Twenty night goblins with spear and shield, with full command - I would combine thsedinto one unit of thirty five seven ranks deep to be useful. Thec exceess command unit can be set aside or converted into characters.
One night gobbo big boss with great weapon holding a vicious squig.
Oner night gobbo shaman.
Some scenic bits with a night gobbo theme, including a hogtied stunty.

It's a good core and will go very well with 2x 6th edition boxsets. Sell the stunties that come with them. They aren't very good compared to the main multipose kits and there is not enough for an army core even with multiple boxsets.

Last Tip: Check your ork bitz box. 40K orks and Fantasy orcs are interchanageable a lot of the time. Plastic nobz with a little conversion to remove obvious items of technology like bandoliers make for excellent warboss minitures. a 40K ork player will already have a huge head start for conversions. It can also go the other way, spare orcs make for excellent Snakebites, it was he whole idea frankly.

This stuff is so hard to find.

A trick with online auctions is: be patient, give it two or three weeks to cycle up, or even longer. Deals will appear.

In fact there is a copy on US ebay right now.

Did you use adequate search criteria? Another trick.

Will PM auction link, looks like a complete 6th edition set, missing the whippy sticks and templates hence the 'not sure comments'.