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Has anyone here any experience with these at all ?

Are they worth picking up or do they just bloat things ?

 reds8n wrote:
Has anyone here any experience with these at all ?

Are they worth picking up or do they just bloat things ?

They are bloat, but my old group uses them and I own Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic. However, I think that the Core Rule book and the Advanced Players Guide are MUCH better books. There are new spells and feats, but I don't care for most of the new stuff.

You can preview (read, actually) practically everything in both books using the official Paizo Pathfinder PRD right here.

As Cleric is the preferred class for me, I'm a huge fan of Quick Channel Feat from the Ultimate Magic book:

Quick Channel

Your divine energies flash with dazzling speed.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, channel energy class feature.

Benefit: You may channel energy as a move action by spending 2 daily uses of that ability.

Like almost all D&D/Pathfinder expansions of their type they've got or 1 or 2 things that feel like positive additions to the game buried under piles of bloat.

..hmm..


Had a glance at the site and some seemed alright.

One assumes the combat book is akin to the old 2nd edition combat and tactics book ?

Not sure I really want or have an interest in making combat longer, more detailed or "realistic" .

I own them, but you can get everything but the pictures straight from Paizo’s website. Which is how I actually use them these days, via my iPad.

I think they are just past the point of diminishing returns for bloat. Sure, there is good stuff in there, but is it really necessary? Obviously everyone draws that line differently.

Feats and spells are obviously a grab-bag Some good, some bad, lots to choose from.

Of the Base classes Magus is the only one worth the paper it’s printed on. Not that the other don’t work, but are unneeded. And the gunslinger bothers me mechanically; the grit system is too meta-gamey.

The archetypes are there if you want them. More choices if you want to do something a little different.

The alternate rules are there if you need them, which you probably don’t. Vehicle rules, gladiator performance stuff, changing around wounds and AC, alternate magic system, etc. If you are an experienced enough GM to be monkeying around with the rules set, you probably don’t need a book to tell you what to do. That said, it’s a few more things in the GMs toolbox for those not comfortable tinkering under the hood free-form.

Cool.


TBH I've never been convinced that there's much call for m/any other classes than the ones in the basic book, but YMMV.


Might get the magic one at some point then, but I don't think we've used most of the spells in the main book as it is anyway.

 Chongara wrote:
Like almost all D&D/Pathfinder expansions of their type they've got or 1 or 2 things that feel like positive additions to the game buried under piles of bloat.

This right here. Not sure yet how I feel about the new Advanced Class Guide yet. Some of the new base classes seem useful, but I haven't had much of a chance to look at much more then the new classes.

The only class or sub-class from the Pathfinder "splat books" that I really like (and would play) is the Weapon Master Fighter-subtype in the advanced guide. That looks fun to play.

The only time I've ever used Ultimate Combat was for the Gunslinger and I borrowed it because it was my first session. The Samurai is just a stylized Cavalier and the Ninja a fancier Rogue. The APG alone gives me a lot of interesting character ideas as it is. Blight Druid? Jackie Chan styled Drunken Master Monk? Yes please!

Some things to note about these two supplements. They are not on the same level of the Advanced Player's Guide in terms of great content. Doesn't mean that they are horrible buys, it just depends on whether or not you are one of the ones who wants to have more options in the midst of some 'meh' ones. Compared to the WotC splatbooks of 3.5, however, I have found most PF supplements to not feel like I just dropped 30 to 40 bucks to get that one good feat.

You would think that Ultimate Magic would give quite a bit of focus to Wizards and Sorcerers, but this is not really the case. In fact, this book seems to want to make other casting classes and the hybrids to be more in line with the higher 9-level casters particularly the ones that came out in Advanced Player's Guide as they had no archetypes when they came out the gate. Alchemists and Inquisitors in particular got some of the most love out of this book being to create some rather varied characters with to up to even 3 archetypes (Chiurgeon, Internal Alchemist, and Vivisectionist come to mind) which is something you don't normally see a whole lot of with other archetypes like from the Fighter and Rogue that concentrate too much on alternating out Weapon Groups or Trapfinding.

The Magus is a pretty interesting class and would be home right next to the other classes for many options, but you definitely have to be careful with it for newer players as this class might be a bit confusing at first especially if they are not versed in the different magical weapon enhancements and their values.

As for the alternate and additional rules for Magic in this book such as Spellblights and Outsider Binding, I will admit that I have not really experienced this much. Both DMs I play with don't even touch this stuff. Words of Power seems to be regarded with no enthusiasm. This book seems to be rife more with throwing a bunch of things at the wall and hopes something sticks for different groups here.

Ultimate Combat seems to go in the same vein of not really giving much to Fighters. In fact, there is a reason that some call it Ultimate Monk, because that is the class that practically got a massive chunk of the feats in this book. If you are wanting to try a Gunslinger but in a world without guns now there is a crossbow version that came out with the Advanced Class Guide. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/bolt-ace Once again, the archetypes here as well seem to give more options more for casting classes and hybrids to bring them more in line with full-on martials.

The alternate rules in here seem much more accessible then the ones from Ultimate Magic. I personally like the Piecemeal Armor. Different weapons are also presented here from sections of Firearms, Oriental Weapons and Amor, Ancient Weapons, and Siege. I do think that maybe a little too much detail was put into firearms and alternate eras here, but I think the book works for the most part.