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Alright im gonna throw it out there and ask for a bunch of randoms to help me make a proper (as proper as this situation allows ) Rough Rider Codex.

So here are the goals I personally would like to have complete:

Full range of units for FOG slots.

100% Mounted units

7th Edition compatible

Special Characters

Final PDF copy to share.

First off, before we start I think we need a plan. My thoughts are we pretend the Imperium doesnt exits as a force for this, to avoid becoming Imperial Guard on horse back (or xenos back, or robot back etc) we need to give these guys something to warrant being different about. I think we should push towards small numbers of specialized hit and run troops. But since Eldar are meant to fill that void, we should push away from deadly efficient and super psychicy and head down the path of rag tag efficiency and shock troops. So like a mix of orks, eldar and space marines without the horde, heavy psychic powers or power armour.

The above is very debatable at this point, but I personally think we should have a focus set out and ready.

With the above in mind, we should take the rough rider unit in the imperial codex and modify it to create our first troop unit (and actually make the unit work while we are at it.) From there we will expand the troops section then work on the HQ section and so on. Names and fluff will be done later. Rules are priority for now.

For the first unit, I think it should stay a Melee focused one, with the other troop unit being a shooty one (dragoons). But they will be next.

Currently ONLY working on "Carbine Cavalry" entry, see notes below unit entry.











Wargear (will add as the units grow)

Power Lance = as per Rule Book

Light Barding = 5+ Armour Save

Heavy Barding = 4+ Armour Save

LasPistol = As per Rule Book

Frag Grenades = As per Rule Book

Krak Grenades = As per Rule Book

Melta Bombs = As per Rule Book

Plasma Pistol = As per Rule Book

Power Sword = As per Rule Book

Power Axe = As per Rule Book

Power Maul = As per Rule Book

Power Sword = As per Rule Book

Multiple Hunting Lances = As per rule book but NO LONGER ONE USE.

Light Grenade Launcher = Same as Grenade Launcher but 18" Range

Plasma Carbine = Same as rule book but 18" range rapid fire.

Las Carbine = Range 18" Assault 2 S3 AP - (same as shotgun)


Units

Troops

Carbine Cavalry Platoon

Platoon Command Cavalary
1 Per Platoon
(same stats as Carbine Cavalry)
Platoon Sargent has +1 Ld
50 Points a squad
Same upgrades as Carbine Cavalry but open for all members.
Carbine Cavalry Platoon Sergeant may replace his Close Combat Weapon with a Power Weapon from the wargear list for 10 points
Carbine Cavalry Platoon Sergeant may replace his Las Pistol with a Bolt Pistol (2pts) or a Plasma Pistol (10pts)
1 member may forgo a weapon upgrade to become a medic (15pts-same as book)
The Platoon sergeant will have orders which will be thought up of soon.


Carbine Cavalry Squad
2-5 per Platoon
Points 11
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 2
I 3
A 2
Ld 7 (+1 for Sergeant)
Sv 5+

Unit Type Cavalry (Sergeant Cavalry Character)

Composition 4 - 9 Carbine Cavalry 1 Carbine Cavalry Sergeant

Wargear

LasCarine

Close Combat Weapon

Light Barding

Frag Grenades

Krak Grenades

Officer has laspistol and Close Combat Weapon

Options
Carbine Cavalry Sergeant may take Melta Bombs for 5 points
Carbine Cavalry Sergeant may replace his Close Combat Weapon with a Power Weapon from the wargear list for 10 points
Up to 2 Carbine Cavalry may take a
Flamer 5pts
Meltagun 10pts
Plasma Carbine 10pts
Light Grenade Launcher 5pts

The whole squad may replace their Lacarbine for 2 Laspistols for 2 points per model.
Up to 2 models may replace their Laspistols (not the Sergeant) with
2 Plasma Pistols 10pts
2 Melta Pistols 10pts

Notes

What should be changed in the above?
SO no weapons beyond the range of 18" for these guys, to make it interestings. Points change to 11 per model, role on the battle field drastically changed and weapon options added.
Removed Laspistols
Added "Pistolier" option
Added basic Platoon command.

Updated the first unit.

Those guys are way to good to be 10pts. You are getting a 12'' moving 2 W Ws 4 Str 5 AP 3 on the charge model for 10pts is far and away to good. If these are the troops, i suggest dropping the Hunting Lances base and allow each model to buy one for say, 3pts, while coming stock with a normal spear (Which would be a normal CC weapon, but grant+1 strength to HOW).

You should also give them the option to carry Las-guns, because if these are your core troops, you don't want to be stuck into the niche of they HAVE to be a close combat unit. You should at least have the option to swap CC weapons for a Las-gun.

So, imagine you drop hunting lances and Krak Grenades to an upgrade but kept the base stat-line and upgraded the CC weapon into a Cavalry Spear you could get those models in at 10pts a piece. Then 2+pts for Krak and 3+pts for Hunting Lances would allow you to take the ''whole package'' for 15pts. When you reply to this, remember most armies have to pay 15pts just to get a Power Lance, something each of these models could come with as well as a fast stat-line for the same cost.

What if I make them 15 points and keep them as is? Because you are right 10 points means I can field a lot of these guys.

I was gonna have a second troop choice which would be a ranged unit of riders. To try break away from the imperial way of doing things (keep it interesting). But that unit will be next.

So you think the unit above is fair at 15 points? If so I agree.

I could add the option for multiple lances as on top of the 15 points? Making them 20 points? But that sounds pretty steep for what they are.

As a counter point to Alex, they're also T3 and a 5+ save. Even W2 isn't much of an issue for anything S6 and up, or AP5 and better...which is mostly everything. They'll still die easily, which is half the reason the current RR are a joke.

I do agree that 10pts is a little too cheap for all of that, but even 12 is sensible, or 13.

Then again, I think your stock troop choices should be less melee oriented and fill the role of the standard cavalry; mounted infantry units. I'd give them rifles, or even carbines (18" Assault 1) with two special weapon slots. Give them a platoon structure so you can have larger squads with a command squad for cool orders.

Then make a profile for 'Lancers' that could fill a FA slot. They could have outflank and hunting lances and act as your flanking/charge/assault force to support the main push.

Then do a heavy mounted version for elite, and horse pulled arty for heavy.

It's not the points cost that i find iffy about the Hunting Lances, it's the entire idea of the weapon. The weapon quite literately explodes when used, they use up a lot of explosives and are quite dangerous to the user. This would lead me to believe, that if you are trying to make the basic ''Grunt on a horse'' then the fact they would come with such a powerful weapon base stands at odds with me. Remember you haven't finished the codex, their are plenty of other units you can pile hunting lances on (Look into specialized spear heads on this site for ideas http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hunting_Lance) but in my opinion the basic lackie should represent the average joe of the army. If it's your intention to have every average joe hulking around several 9ft long explosive poles, then that's fine.

But in my head i am imagining an all mounted army to be carrying around basic spears and machine guns, with the Lances (possibly with specilized tips such as Melta or Poison) thrown around into the units much like Power Weapons are thrown around in other armies, either having a few just thrown about on random dudes of have entire units of 'elites' carry them.

£0.02

BlackSails

Yea, alright makes sense. How about, troops can have lascarbines (saving the lances for later) and have the option to buy chariot support weapons (which can be broken up between the troops) and that can be the standard mounted troops choice?

AlexisAwesome

Probably as above as well?

 Swastakowey wrote:
BlackSails

Yea, alright makes sense. How about, troops can have lascarbines (saving the lances for later) and have the option to buy chariot support weapons (which can be broken up between the troops) and that can be the standard mounted troops choice?

Oh, never thought of a chariot option. I'd make your troops 10-man squads with the basic profile as above, except WS 3, then give them the option to platoon with up to 5 squads with a 5-man command squad. As a part of the platoon, I'd have 3 chariot weapon support squads that can be taken 0-3 for each platoon. Each platoon must consist of 1 command squad and 2 squads base, with option for 3 more, and 3 chariot squads (each with 3 chariots). The basic squads can combine, the chariots can't.

Sounds like a plan. I shall save the lances for other slots . Well I'll put these up there, then we can work out things like orders etc.

Any ideas on the chariot profile?

Also, since its heading down the imperial route a bit, we could add an interesting unit. Anti Tank dogs (or whatever animal). With a rule like the old rage rule against tanks (have them run at tanks with melta bombs? But die in the process)?

That way we have something similar to the platoon structure without the Conscripts thing.

I dont have time to update the top now (as im on and off) but it will be done when I am home. For now, its all talk in the comments.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Any ideas on the chariot profile?

Man, for coming up with ideas for complex things like that, I better be compensated.

No, but seriously, I have no clue.

They could have 3 wounds, but that seems like too much. They could be T4, but then it raises the question why the rest of the models aren't T4. Giving them a better save might work, but it wouldn't stack very well with having up armoured duded in other slots. Giving them a USR like FnP also wouldn't do a whole lot and doesn't make too much sense.

Honestly, the best option in terms of fluff and scaling is 3 wounds, but then ideally the model would have two horses. Which would look more badass anyways.

I'm personally not overly keen on the specifics of the anti-tank dog idea, but I see what you're trying to do. The very rough idea of what you're getting at I can get behind, just not the specifics of anti-tank dogs, but by all means, keep working at it.

This is probably the first idea I've come across in a long time that has me interested. I've largely given up on fixing, balancing, or otherwise adding to 40k as its such a mess, but I'll always get behind a bitchin Guard concept, especially cavalry.

I say we lay the idea of a chariot heavy weapons to rest for the moment and focus instead on the need for a Command Squad, an elites choice, a fast choice, and a "heavy" choice.

I feel the codex will need a dragoon option, dismounted cavalry with a higher level BS using lasguns. Since it provides no recoil it is perfect to use a modified pattern that has a collapsible stock for riding and a full on gun for ground combat. Make them cost 65 points for a squad of ten with the option to bring in an heavy bolter or mortar only as their lighter and smaller weapons.

Command Squad should do fine with 70 point base, stats to reflect the Commander and veteran horsemen as well. Also make power fists cheaper as 25 points is a joke for S6.

An elite choice I believe should be Hussar style cavalry, they have the option to pick up heavy barding 4+ AS, a standard squad has 5 members at 80 points and each new member is 12 points a piece. They have the option to forgo a hunting lance for Power sword, power axe, and power fists as their main hand. The Sergeant can choose to upgrade to any of this and plasma pistol or bolt pistol.

A fast attack choice, following the horsie theme here. The squad starts at 5 members for 70 points and each new member is 10 points a piece. They can no receive hunting lances but they are pistoleer troopers with each guardsmen using 2 las pistols as standard. They can upgrade their laspistols to bolt pistols at 2 pts each and they can carry a max of 1 plasma pistol per squad member, the sergeant can carry 2. With plasma pistols costing 10 points each.

Heavy attack choice. Throw in the Leman Russ varients and call this section done.

Alright black sails. Ill focus on the first unit anyway for now. Cheers though!


Bunker Bob
I kinda wanna break away from the imperial guard method of things. The idea behind a modern cavalry force is really just a poor countries cheap way having mobile troops, except they can simply eat the grass of the battlefield and operate outside of logistics for a while etc. Except we are gonna 40k it up with ludicrous outdated tactics (lances...)

So I agree things like hussars and dragoons need to be added, but I think an army is defined by its troops for the most part and so ill try focus on the troops. (things like pistolieers and so on are all good ideas though, and will be considered).

You could use horse drawn carriages for artillery or heavy weapon teams. Maybe not basilisk levels of firepower, but you could have a horse pull a lascannon mount on wheels around, or two harnessed up to drag around a large mortar.

Alright, the troop has been changed to carbine cavalry, with 18" range guns maximum and 11 points a model. How do they look for a troop choice?

If this gets the go ahead from you guys, we can turn them into a platoon and we can get onto some fun stuff like orders etc.

As the basis of the army, how do these guys fare?

Do the troopers have lascarbine, laspistol, and CCW? If so, I think that's a little much, especially with 2A base. I'd give them Lascarbine and CCW, and give the officer pistol and CCW.

You could do another troop choice of pistoliers as well.

I like it though. Seems like a solid beginning.

Very true, I thought about how they will be very close to the enemy so assault was going to be a common factor, but 4 attacks on the charge is waay to much. Ill drop the laspistol I think. Dead weight anyway.

Ok, with the pistoliers we could have 2-5 Carbines or Pistoliers in a platoon (so for example 2 carbines 3 pistoliers) as interchangeable stock standard units?

But, what can we do to make them takable? Give them some short rane but deadly pistols to chose from? Like bolt pistols, melta pistols, plasma pistols, flamer pistols etc?

I'd probably split up the entries and make them so they can't be mixed, purely for simplicity and avoiding confusion.

The pistoliers are already a decent tradeoff; think of it like old Ork Boyz. You either went Shootas for better ranged attack with less melee bite, or you went choppas for less ranged attack but better melee bite. The Pistoliers get the +1 bonus (I think? correct if wrong), but at the cost of range. Make them 12pts base, with upgrades for bolt pistols for all at...oh, 2-3pts per model. Let sergeant swap for plasma pistols if he so pleases.

One in 5 could take plasma, or some other type of pistol, to act as their special weapon slots.

They'll be costlier, but they have the same shooting at less range, with better melee. Seems fair to me.

Sounds good.

Ill add em in a second.

For simplicity, we can probably keep the command squads very similar to the IG ones. Just with similar weapons to their respective platoons.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Sounds good.

Ill add em in a second.

For simplicity, we can probably keep the command squads very similar to the IG ones. Just with similar weapons to their respective platoons.

You only need a single entry that can take either pistols or carbines. Make them carbines standard, and give the option for the squad to take pistols for a fixed cost for the whole squad. You don't even need to force the carbine command to go with the carbine platoon; that can be mixed because they're different units.

...

Simple as.

Really simple...

Yea thats what we'll do instead haha. Cheers mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added

Basic Platoon command added.

Here's an idea:

Ranged weapons (RW) list: Bolt pistol, Hot-shot laspistol, Plasma pistol

Special weapons (SW) list: Sniper rifle, Grenade launcher, Meltagun, Plasma gun, Demo charge, Heavy bolter

Heavy weapons (HW) list: Mortar, Autocannon, Missile launcher (Frag + Krak +/- Flakk missiles), Lascannon, Plasma cannon


Troop

Rifle Riders:
Basic riders with WS: 3, BS: 4. Armed with Lasguns. Composed of 1 Sergeant and 4-9 Rifles. Has "Shoot sharp and scarper" special rule.
- Sergeant may replace his Lasgun with a CCW and Pistol for free. May further replace the Pistol with a weapon from the RW list.
- Sergeant may alternatively upgrade his Lasgun with a Boltgun.
- 1 Rider may replace his weapon with a Missile launcher.
- Up to 2 Riders may replace his weapon with a weapon from the SW list (excluding Demo charge and Heavy bolter).
- The entire squad may upgrade to War horses (Gaining +1 to Toughness, at the expense of Fleet).

Sabre Riders:
Basic riders with WS: 4, BS: 3. Armed with CCW and Pistol. Composed of 1 Sergeant and 4-9 Sabres. Has "Move through cover" special rule.
- Sergeant may upgrade his Pistol for a Shotgun.
- Sergeant may upgrade his CCW with a Power weapon or Power fist.
- 1 Rider may replace his weapons with an Eviscerator.
- Up to 2 Riders may each replace their weapons with Heavy flamers.
-- The entire squad may upgrade to War horses (Gaining +1 to Toughness, at the expense of Fleet).


Elite

Lancers:
Elite riders with WS: 4, BS: 3, S: 4. Armed with Pistol and 3x Hunting lances. Composed of 1 Sergeant and 2-9 Lancers. Has "Infiltrate" special rule.
- Sergeant may replace his Pistol with a weapon from the RW list.
- Sergeant may purchase a Power weapon or Power fist.
- The entire squad may each upgrade 1 Hunting lance for a Power lance.
- The entire squad may upgrade to War horses (Gaining +1 to Toughness, at the expense of Fleet).

Saracens:
Elite riders with WS: 4, BS: 4, S: 3. Armed with Hot-shot lasguns. Composed of 1 Sergeant and 5-9 Saracens. Has "Relentless" special rule.
- Sergeant and 2 Veterans must purchase an additional weapon from the SW list.
- Sergeant may replace his Hot-shot lasgun with a Hot-shot laspistol and CCW for free.
- Sergeant may replace his Pistol with a weapon from the RW list.
- Sergeant may upgrade his CCW with a Power weapon or Power fist.
- The remaining Saracens may also purchase a weapon from the SW list.
- 1 Saracen may replace his weapons with a Heavy flamer.
- 1 Saracen may replace his weapons with a Missile launcher.
- The entire squad may purchase Doctrines: Grenadiers, Forward sentries, Demolitions.
- The entire squad may upgrade to War horses (Gaining +1 to Toughness, at the expense of Fleet).


Fast Attack

Heavy Weapons Chariot:
Open-topped horse-drawn chariot with no weapons, 10 armour on all sides and 3 HP. Contains 1 HWT. Comprised of 1-3 Chariots. HWTs may fire a second weapon at BS: 1.
- HWT must purchase a weapon from the HW list.
- HWT may also replace their Lasgun with a Heavy flamer or a weapon from the SW list.


Heavy Support

Heavy Artillery Battery:
Immobile artilleries a la DKK. Requires a horse-drawn chariot (occupied by 1Guardsman) to cart it around.

Your troops are too overdone. There's no reason why they're BS4 or WS4 considering they're basic guardsmen; doubly so when you consider that they're the army's basic troop choice.

It also doesn't stand to reason why a mounted Guardsmen can wield a missile launcher solo when the foot version needs a dedicated two man team. Leave heavy weapons off of mounted units. This helps give this force a distinct feel, and keeps some semblance of in universe logic.

Basic troops consisting of carbines and pistols is all you need. You don't want too many overlapping roles with assault riders as troops and slightly better assault riders as FA; the balance between them becomes very difficult.

I agree with blacksails. the other thing to consider is avoid making a mounted guard army. I do want to capture a different flavour of fighting along with a cool theme. I think what's up in the OP is on track towards a good basis of troops

Whoops. I meant to include/point out that the Missile Launchers being weilded by the Troops and Elites are single-use only. Hence the lack of upgrade for Flakk missiles.

As for why they would be WS: 4 or BS: 4, the reason for that is to help make up for how they can't be taken as a Platoon; my rationale being that Platoon guard is the defining trait of Imperial Guard infantry; whilst Auxillia aren't deployed that way. Hence why Rough Riders, Ogryns, Ratlings and Tanks can't be taken as Platoons whilst Infantry and Storm Troopers can. If it's more appealling, you could have them be WS: 3, BS: 3 but have the entire squad have the option to be upgraded to Veterans but I thought that just needlessly complicates things. As for the Troops being too "overdone" (presuming in terms of options), it should be worth noting that I have fewer options than Veteran Guardsmen (who can take 1 Heavy flamer, 1 Heavy weapon, 2 Special weapons AND Doctrines).

As far as avoiding a mounted guard army, in that it plays like guard but with a different aesthetic, then avoiding Platoons is a pretty important component. In terms of getting a different feel, it should be noted that the units I outlined should play quite different from normal Guard; which are typically quite stationary, particularly with Troops and Elites. Meanwhile, my suggestions would likely have the Rifles have a move-shoot-move type action of constantly readjusting their positions (as they are quite fragile and few in numbers, relative to IG, Orks, etc). Likewise, Assault Riders and Lancers could theoretically shoot-then-charge; which is something Guard doesn't typically do. In fact, Lancers, if upgraded properly, could give charging a tank a good crack with a chance of succeeding for a change.

The platoon is really the defining trait of anything in the Guard. While I understand the aim of 'Kowey is something not-IG, a platoon for troops is beneficial for several reasons.

The first being that it provides contrast with the rest of the forces in the army in terms of quality/training/equipment. The platoon is your basic troop choice, therefore it'll be cheap and abundant, while the other slots will have your specialists; lancers, heavy cav, horse towed weapons, chariots, and so on. The second benefit is for balance. Currently, a 10-man squad with T3 and a 5+ is a joke to wipe away. However, 30 T3 5+ bodies are far from a joke. This gives the army some semblance of staying power.

The army will play differently because its faster than foot guard, has a lack of heavy weaponry outside of dedicated slots and units that are easily picked out, and is more expensive.

The other option is have the squad size 5-20 for basic troops and 5-10 or even 15 for the more elite slots.

Something to chew on.

Given speed and mobility are the Cavalry's defining traits, shouldn't they focus on ranged weapons as well to make things interesting? Always staying two steps ahead strikes me as a more unique gameplay experience (especially for the Imperium) than the much used massed tactics and drown-them-in-numbers approach. Especially since these people are supposed to be horsemen; which by very definition means they're going to be much more trained than the average Guardsman.

The problem with close range is that they will get hit. And with those stats, they will die and so need high body/Wound counts to whether the attacks. Except the Cavalry's much more expensive than basic Guardsmen, and so the player wouldn't be able to field as many.

Anyway, it makes no difference to me either way since this isn't my baby. I'll let Swastakowey decide based on our cases. Either way, my parting piece of adice would definitely be to include more than just Carbine Platoons as Troops since a choice of one is not a choice at all. Definitely consider an Assault-focused troop choice as well (whether as separate from the Platoon or as an option for it) who get 2 CCWs (e.g. Pistol + CCW) with a model count of 10; since 10 models = 30 attacks. Even if they're weak, that's still going to be scary; especially coming from a mere "basic" Troop.

mr. peasant wrote:
Given speed and mobility are the Cavalry's defining traits, shouldn't they focus on ranged weapons as well to make things interesting? Always staying two steps ahead strikes me as a more unique gameplay experience (especially for the Imperium) than the much used massed tactics and drown-them-in-numbers approach. Especially since these people are supposed to be horsemen; which by very definition means they're going to be much more trained than the average Guardsman.

What do you mean by ranged weapons? Cavalry has always been about hit and run tactics, if anything, the whole codex could have that as a USR.

Anyway, it makes no difference to me either way since this isn't my baby. I'll let Swastakowey decide based on our cases. Either way, my parting piece of adice would definitely be to include more than just Carbine Platoons as Troops since a choice of one is not a choice at all. Definitely consider an Assault-focused troop choice as well (whether as separate from the Platoon or as an option for it) who get 2 CCWs (e.g. Pistol + CCW) with a model count of 10; since 10 models = 30 attacks. Even if they're weak, that's still going to be scary; especially coming from a mere "basic" Troop.

Unless I've missed something in 7th, but doesn't 2x pistols grant an additional attack? If so, there's your assault variant.

By assault-focused, I'm referring to WS: 4. At WS: 3, the unit would fail to land most hits (statistically speaking) unless going up against something like Tau. Plus, the Riders are pretty expensive for something that probably won't last more than a turn of Assault. 2x Pistols is more of a middle ground since while you do get the +1 attack, you are paying for the extra +1 shot for the shooting phase.

mr. peasant wrote:
By assault-focused, I'm referring to WS: 4. At WS: 3, the unit would fail to land most hits (statistically speaking) unless going up against something like Tau. Plus, the Riders are pretty expensive for something that probably won't last more than a turn of Assault. 2x Pistols is more of a middle ground since while you do get the +1 attack, you are paying for the extra +1 shot for the shooting phase.

The unit won't fail to land most of their stuff with WS3. They'll hit just about any normal unit on a 4+ with WS3. With WS4, they'd hit everything on a 4+ except for the models with WS3. Hardly a big difference.

Save for WS4 for the other force org slots for flavour. Leave the basic troops at 3's across the board.