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So, Flayed Ones. Especially dark harvest forge world with the upgrade to take scarabs that grant Shred on the first round of combat.
130 points for 10. Ws, s, t, and Armour of 4. 3 attacks, 4 on the charge and getting shred??
I can't see why everyone says they suck so bad... they can infiltrate or deep strike. either option should reliably allow a turn 2 assault.
Yes, they'll get shot to hell, but they're almost as tough as Marines so it's not like they just die. And when they start getting back up they're even more resilient.
One squad probably won't do much. But if you infiltrate three squads of 10 18 inches away... that sounds pretty scary. they're not going to lose most combats. And point wise, that's less than 400 points for three ten man squads.
If the opponent is shooting at THEM then the other 1000 points of your army are going on a rip.
A long as you're careful of high strength, low ap templates, you should be able to get some real knocks in.
PLUS they're troops on the IA book. Granted I usually run unbound so that doesn't matter to me now but still a plus.
I'm not saying they're the best ever, but to me they seem above average. Thoughts?

I agree entirely, if the models were cheaper I'd run them by the dozen (I mean to convert a bunch one day). Like all assault units, they require proper support, but take 2 squads of 15 and Infiltrate as close as possible, the enemy won't likely kill them all inside a turn, and then they hit hard. If they do manage to seriously dent them, the chances are the rest of your army is largely unmolested.

How can they assault on T2 with Deep Strike?
Don't forget that we are mostly talking about the normal Flayed Ones, they aren't troops and they can't get Shred.

The main issues would be:
What list will you put them in?
Or what happens if they encounter vehicles?
Or what if they get into combat with Sv2+ ?

Three units of 10 are almost 400 points. I could have "four" Annihilation Barges.
Or I could take 8 Spyders, or 2.5 Flyers or 12 Wraiths.

As they are now, I would like to see some things added:
1) A Lord to go with them in Infiltrate or Deep Strike.
2) A Cryptek that could join them.
3) Troops.
Some people say that they lack an ability and should get Rending, Shred or Furious Charge. I think that is not how Necrons work, stuff like that should be added through a Lord/Cryptek.

I'd put them in a silver tide list that brings a ton of warriors/immortals with lords, as by the time the enemy have got through 30-40 Flayed Ones, they could have 50+ warriors moving up into effective range.

2+ saves should be easy to handle through masses of attacks. Vehicles might be a bit tougher, but most have AV10 back armour and the FO should be able to strip HP if they have to. That said, with most other Cron units being inherently effective against tanks, the FO should be going against infantry where possible.

Necron dark harvest assault list.

Spam wraiths in FA, take Dlords of bargelords as your HQs and spam tons of flayed ones that infiltrate.
By the time he takes care of the horde of flayed ones that infiltrated right next to him-if he manages to-the wraiths and lords show up and go to town on the survivors of the initial flayed waves.

thats what im talking about

im not saying the flayed ones are the best unit ever or anything, but theyre certainly useable.

as a dark eldar player, ive always tried to find uses for mandrakes and they just seem to hurt any list. but flayed ones; especially from IA with shred really start to look attractive if used properly

I think the best response isn't that they aren't as AIDS as some people make them out to be but there are better options.

In the end if you enjoy playing with them then run them.

The problem most people tend to have with slow moving units is literally that, they're slow. You look at most infantry heavy armies and can see why you wont see many units like Flayed Ones as prominent. Most other slow Infantry units have forms of Transports. Which tends to give them a lot more board mobility and makes them a bigger threat.

Now I'm a CSM + Daemons player and I have a good friend who always swears by Flayed Ones and how good they can be if just given a good chance. I have yet to see a way for them to be well taken sadly. =/

Sure they're dirt cheap at 130 points for 10. But for 120 points I could just take a 20 x Cultist squad with 2 Flamers and Autoguns and effectively shoot them to death before they ever get to me. And those Cultists can have Objective Secured. At an average of 4 Wounds per round just from shooting, not including the flamers if you end up too close or fail a charge, or from Wall of Death, it really doesn't work out =/

They get swept too easily, sometimes run from shooting, can be pinned, overwatch deaths do not rez until after combat, have a terrible initiative. Mainly they are simply inferior to wraiths in every way as a cc choice.

They need fearless as a minimum.

Thing is, yes, they're worse than Wraiths in CC..... but look at their points cost for a RP unit that can outflank or infiltrate. They're relatively cheap wounds that rez.

OK.

You Infiltrate your Flayed Ones.

The enemy gets to shoot them with the majority of his army that, because nothing else you have is in range, would otherwise be wasted. Lets be generous to the Flayed Ones and say they suffer 50% casualties - Eight of fifteen.

You move up and assault.

You get Overwatched by the unit you're charging. They're... hm. Guardsmen, Sergeant with a power maul and laspistol. Ten lasguns, rapid firing.That downs another one. Six left. The Guardsmen then attack first at I3. Another two die. Four left.

Flayed Ones attack. Four guardsmen on average die.

A unit of fifteen infiltrating Flayed Ones is just shy of 200 points. By turn two, they have managed to kill 20 points worth of models, assuming that the casualties are all lasgunners. Lets assume that the Guardsmen hold on Ld 5, somehow (since they probably would be in range of something with a Ld bonus).

Next turn, assuming nobody can be spared to help the poor guardsmen. Another two Flayed Ones go down. And... another two Guardsmen go down. That's fair, yes? Two for two. Ten points in exchange for twenty three?

Of course, ressurection protocols will protect a third of the Flayed Ones casualties, so... eh, I don't actually have time to work it out. have fun

You're going wrong at the beginning. You said that the enemy will shoot them because they'd be the only thing in range --- ofc if you use the Flayed Ones like an idiot, they'll die like chaff.

The trick is to make the Flayed Ones the lesser threat in your enemy's immediate area. Deep-striking Deathmarks or some other form of distraction unit is perfect for buying the Flayed Ones the time they need to get into CQC.

 Otto Weston wrote:
You're going wrong at the beginning. You said that the enemy will shoot them because they'd be the only thing in range --- ofc if you use the Flayed Ones like an idiot, they'll die like chaff.

The trick is to make the Flayed Ones the lesser threat in your enemy's immediate area. Deep-striking Deathmarks or some other form of distraction unit is perfect for buying the Flayed Ones the time they need to get into CQC.

Or taking 2-3 unit of FO, or using terrain to block off parts of the enemy army. Unless you're deploying on an open field with a single unit, the enemy aren't shooting at you 'with their whole army'.

 Otto Weston wrote:
You're going wrong at the beginning. You said that the enemy will shoot them because they'd be the only thing in range --- ofc if you use the Flayed Ones like an idiot, they'll die like chaff.

The trick is to make the Flayed Ones the lesser threat in your enemy's immediate area. Deep-striking Deathmarks or some other form of distraction unit is perfect for buying the Flayed Ones the time they need to get into CQC.

If you're going for a second turn charge, they have to be the only threat in the enemy's immediate area because you can't get anything else in their threat range in turn one, and they have to be infiltrating (not deep striking). The closest you can get is sending forward jump infantry or jetbikes, neither of which pose as big a thread as an undamaged blob of flayed ones.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
You're going wrong at the beginning. You said that the enemy will shoot them because they'd be the only thing in range --- ofc if you use the Flayed Ones like an idiot, they'll die like chaff.

The trick is to make the Flayed Ones the lesser threat in your enemy's immediate area. Deep-striking Deathmarks or some other form of distraction unit is perfect for buying the Flayed Ones the time they need to get into CQC.

If you're going for a second turn charge, they have to be the only threat in the enemy's immediate area because you can't get anything else in their threat range in turn one, and they have to be infiltrating (not deep striking). The closest you can get is sending forward jump infantry or jetbikes, neither of which pose as big a thread as an undamaged blob of flayed ones.

Not True. You can easily have threats on their side of the board on turn 1. I personally have two full squads of teleporting immortals, and 1 squad of Teleporting Lychguard and they can all be in my enemy's face as early as turn 1. Faced with all of those threats, who is going to focus on a slogging bunch of Flayed Ones?

But with all that, are the flayed ones actually useful? Or are they just filler and everything else does the heavy lifting?

Actually, they're quite good. People underestimate them and usually leave them alone and then you get around 60 attacks on the charge.

Against a dedicated CC unit they'll probably get mulched, but those aren't really their targets anyway.

Even against dedicated CC units, by sheer numbers of attacks/cost, many things will find themselves overwhelmed.