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Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Its incredibly likely IMO that ISIS has no credible links within mainland Europe or IMO we would see continued competent acts of espionage. We see non of this, we see out bursts by sad deluded disenfranchised individuals with weak links to fanatical Islam and an internet search history tainted with questionable research. Terrorist groups have a history of claiming responsibility for attacks that further their cause regardless if its out side their direct influence, it gives them power by proxy. We need to dilute this influence by reducing them to what they truly are not by putting them on pedestals as martyr of a cause.
Not sure what you mean by 'acts of espionage'.
I understand the rest of your point, and it is a good one. But it ignores a basic fact, DaIsh, and likely whomever takes over the mantle of Sunni Scumbag Fanatics once DaIsh is finally crushed, actively ask for these 'lone wolf'/isolated nut job types of attacks. It is part of what makes them so dangerous. They encourage it. They actively put out propaganda and recruiting materials towards that encouragement. The don't just claim the acts to Look Cool or whatever, they claim them, turn them into propaganda to encourage MORE of this behavior. And it is working, clearly.
If you want to treat each as an isolated crime with nothing to do with radicalization you are ignoring the real problem in my opinion.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
CptJake wrote: If you want to treat each as an isolated crime with nothing to do with radicalization you are ignoring the real problem in my opinion.
Even without ISIS, we are seeing more stuff like this new article about a man who stabbed a woman and her three daughters because they were wearing T-shirts and shorts (dressed immodestly).
A woman and her three daughters have been stabbed in a French resort for being ‘scantily dressed’.
An eight-year-old girl was left fighting for her life after the attack in the Garde-Colombe in the Hautes-Alpes region of Southern France.
The man is believed to have attacked the three girls outside the family’s apartment before entering the building and attacking the mother.
Jean-Marc Duprat, a deputy mayor for the town of Laragne-Monteglin in the Hautes-Alpes region said the suspect, who is not related to them, was upset they were wearing shorts and T-shirts.
He’s believed to have met the family earlier in the week and was staying next door.
The girls are believed to be aged eight, 12 and 14 while their mother is 46. The knifeman is alleged to have fled the scene by car before being arrested.
Amaury Navarranne from the regional council said: ‘The religious motive of the attack is in no doubt.
Meanwhile prosecutors said details were still ‘very vague’ and investigations were continuing.
The mayor of the town Edmond Francou said: ‘I was called around 9.45am to the holiday village next to the town hall because there had been a fight between two tenants in neighbouring apartments.
‘There was a crowd. That’s when I found a lady with three daughters who had stab injuries. They were lying on chairs.’
French media says that the man is of Moroccan descent and is 37 years old. It is also reported that he is known by police for previous crimes.
Mr Francou, said the girl had suffered a perforated lung and is being treated at Grenoble
Police said they had a 37-year-old man in custody.
CptJake wrote: If you want to treat each as an isolated crime with nothing to do with radicalization you are ignoring the real problem in my opinion.
Even without ISIS, we are seeing more stuff like this new article about a man who stabbed a woman and her three daughters because they were wearing T-shirts and shorts (dressed immodestly).
Yep, and DaIsh and similar groups asking for and praising these types of acts and disseminating the praise (and often video/pictures of the acts themselves) via social media and other methods as further 'call to action' exacerbates the increase in these activities. Even when the perps do not take 'the pledge' to DaIsh or a similar group they get to feel part of the group and know their actions are 'appreciated'.
There is no easy or quickly executed solution set, but again, I don't believe treating these types of acts as one off crimes really addresses the issue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/19 19:33:53
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
CptJake wrote: If you want to treat each as an isolated crime with nothing to do with radicalization you are ignoring the real problem in my opinion.
Even without ISIS, we are seeing more stuff like this new article about a man who stabbed a woman and her three daughters because they were wearing T-shirts and shorts (dressed immodestly).
A woman and her three daughters have been stabbed in a French resort for being ‘scantily dressed’.
An eight-year-old girl was left fighting for her life after the attack in the Garde-Colombe in the Hautes-Alpes region of Southern France.
The man is believed to have attacked the three girls outside the family’s apartment before entering the building and attacking the mother.
Jean-Marc Duprat, a deputy mayor for the town of Laragne-Monteglin in the Hautes-Alpes region said the suspect, who is not related to them, was upset they were wearing shorts and T-shirts.
He’s believed to have met the family earlier in the week and was staying next door.
The girls are believed to be aged eight, 12 and 14 while their mother is 46. The knifeman is alleged to have fled the scene by car before being arrested.
Amaury Navarranne from the regional council said: ‘The religious motive of the attack is in no doubt.
Meanwhile prosecutors said details were still ‘very vague’ and investigations were continuing.
The mayor of the town Edmond Francou said: ‘I was called around 9.45am to the holiday village next to the town hall because there had been a fight between two tenants in neighbouring apartments.
‘There was a crowd. That’s when I found a lady with three daughters who had stab injuries. They were lying on chairs.’
French media says that the man is of Moroccan descent and is 37 years old. It is also reported that he is known by police for previous crimes.
Mr Francou, said the girl had suffered a perforated lung and is being treated at Grenoble
Police said they had a 37-year-old man in custody.
Weird. Can't find anything about this on some big french news site that I often read. I guess some intern fell asleep, or they're unwilling to write something about it.
Some of the comments in the article you gave are sickening. "The French deserve it." Well, feth you too, man.
(But I shouldn't pay attention to random comments on a news website)
Whatever policy France is going to implement and enforced I've a feeling the rest of Europe will follow behind it.
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Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Its incredibly likely IMO that ISIS has no credible links within mainland Europe or IMO we would see continued competent acts of espionage. We see non of this, we see out bursts by sad deluded disenfranchised individuals with weak links to fanatical Islam and an internet search history tainted with questionable research. Terrorist groups have a history of claiming responsibility for attacks that further their cause regardless if its out side their direct influence, it gives them power by proxy. We need to dilute this influence by reducing them to what they truly are not by putting them on pedestals as martyr of a cause.
Not sure what you mean by 'acts of espionage'.
I understand the rest of your point, and it is a good one. But it ignores a basic fact, DaIsh, and likely whomever takes over the mantle of Sunni Scumbag Fanatics once DaIsh is finally crushed, actively ask for these 'lone wolf'/isolated nut job types of attacks. It is part of what makes them so dangerous. They encourage it. They actively put out propaganda and recruiting materials towards that encouragement. The don't just claim the acts to Look Cool or whatever, they claim them, turn them into propaganda to encourage MORE of this behavior. And it is working, clearly.
If you want to treat each as an isolated crime with nothing to do with radicalization you are ignoring the real problem in my opinion.
What I meant by espionage vs the current terrorist attacks is as we are at war if you will, a competent trained planned set of attacks that disrupt and kill without being so brazen as to be unrepeatable would be what most guerrilla fighter would carry out. You can only take hostages once, plow a truck into a crowd once, with the IRA for instances or Islamic terrorism in the middle east these people used car bombs and other IED's. Attacking bridges and trains, water sources and power plants wouldn't leave the attacker compromised. These are the kinds of attacks that would show that they really to have a foot hold among us(a claim heavily used by ISIS to give people the strength to feel their sacrifice may create a movement or a difference). Which covers the first part of my point we aren't dealing with an organisation just its message. So that's why we need to fight the message not the people, fighting the people reinforces the message. I said these instances further their cause i certainly wasn't trying to imply otherwise or want to dilute the effect these atrocities have had on the people that have endured them i just feel that the media and certain elements of government either miss-comprehend or wish to spin it the wrong way, and by doing so they make these attacks into exactly what ISIS wants and needs to thrive and inspire. We currently play directly into this terror.
Yeah grim as anything, this is why war is grotesque and i get fed up with the glorification of conflict and arbitration by force. Its sad and sickening to see the lengths people can be driven too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/20 20:54:30
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Your definition of 'espionage' is not close to mine (and frankly is not close to correct).
And you are dealing with an organization. The message does not disseminate itself. Dabiq does not magically appear on the net. Recruiting and propaganda videos don't just exist because they exist.
Yes, we need to get better at 'fighting the message'. We also need to kill a lot more folks. Those are not mutually exclusive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/20 21:48:41
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Ita there capital. Its going to a be a right pain to capture.
He,s gonna have to move slow and steady and keep his lines consolidated. There going to do anything to stop them laying siege.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/21 17:43:47
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
CptJake wrote: Your definition of 'espionage' is not close to mine (and frankly is not close to correct).
And you are dealing with an organization. The message does not disseminate itself. Dabiq does not magically appear on the net. Recruiting and propaganda videos don't just exist because they exist.
Yes, we need to get better at 'fighting the message'. We also need to kill a lot more folks. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Sorry i think your misconstruing my point, apologies if it wasnt clear or i was using terms out of context. I'm wasn't trying to claiming that the terrorist attacks are espionage, I was just pointing out that along side attacks on people wouldn't you expects attacks on infrastructure(im aware espionage is commonly used to infer info gathering spying ect, but i thought it also covers convert subversive attacks too) too if we had a routed organised body of terrorists, isis followers, sleeper sells or want ever buzz word you'd care to use. Recently we had the ISIS video pop up online showing how they had all these cells around the globe, im quite willing to believe they do im just not sure all the attacks have been made by such cells or there followers and that maybe our current information war against them maybe having the opposite effect. I dont remember saying anything about us not killing people thats quite a different discussion that im willing to participate in if your interested in my perspective at all.
Just to clear that up I think my main point was valid on how you shouldnt pander to these people, how you just end up perpetuating there message and giving them a strength and a sense of presence far stronger that they really have, which will in turn just create more of the same.
3500pts1500pts2500pts4500pts3500pts2000pts 2000pts plus several small AOS armies
President Obama has authorized a 30-day mission for the U.S. military to conduct airstrikes against the Islamic State terror group in Libya as new strikes were unleashed Tuesday, Fox News has learned.
Marine Corps Harrier jets launched from the Navy amphibious assault ship USS Wasp conducted at least two airstrikes against ISIS targets in the coastal city of Sirte Tuesday. USS Wasp is set to remain off the Libyan coast in the Mediterranean Sea for the next month along with an escort ship, the guided-missile destroyer USS Carney.
The U.S. has launched at least seven airstrikes in total since the campaign began Monday.
Speaking at the White House Tuesday, Obama explained, “At the request of [the Libyan] government, after they had already made significant progress against ISIL and had essentially pushed ISIL into a very confined area in and around Sirte, it is in America's national security interests in our fight against ISIL to make sure that they're able to finish the job.”
“This is a finite period of time and a very finite mission,” Pentagon spokesman Capt. Jeff Davis told reporters. “We don’t envision this as being something that’s going to be too long” in duration, he added.
Tuesday's strikes destroyed an ISIS rocket launcher and a heavy equipment excavator, Davis said. He added that three Harrier jets and two unmanned Reaper drones conducted yesterday's strikes, destroying two Soviet-era ISIS T-72 tanks, two other vehicles and an ISIS “fighting position.”
While President Obama’s authorization to strike ISIS in Libya was limited to Sirte, Capt. Davis said the U.S. military reserved the right to conduct counterterrorism strikes elsewhere in the country as the U.S. military did in November and February.
Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook said Monday the number of
ISIS fighters in Sirte was under 1,000. When asked by Fox News how the number of ISIS fighters had decreased so rapidly in Libya, Davis said it was a combination of factors.
Some had been killed and others had “changed allegiances” he said. “They have decided ISIS was not all that it was cracked up to be and have moved on to something else.”
In February, the U.S. military began flying armed drones over Libya from Sigonella, Italy, on the island of Sicily. Fox News is told the drones used in Monday's ISIS strikes did not originate from Sicily, but likely from a drone base in Africa.
USS Wasp is the flagship of a flotilla of Navy ships carrying thousands of U.S. Marines, part of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit based out of Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. They are expected to move from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf eventually.
Aboard USS Wasp are Marine Cobra attack helicopters, Harrier jets and CH-53 transport helicopters to take Marines ashore should they be needed.
Italy's foreign minister said Tuesday his government would evaluate any U.S. request to allow use of the Sigonella base in the airstrike campaign.
“I believe that it's a very positive fact” that the Americans have decided to intervene, Paolo Gentiloni said. He noted that the extremists were concentrated in four or five compounds, but said it won't be easy to eradicate them.
In February, Italy agreed to let armed U.S. drones take off from Sigonella but only to defend U.S. forces targeting ISIS extremists. Italy has stressed that it won't let Sigonella be used for offensive purposes.
Italy has insisted Libya must request any anti-ISIS airstrikes, which Libya's U.N.-brokered unity government did in the case of Sirte.
The strikes send a “very strong message not only against terrorism, but also for the stabilization of Libya,” Gentiloni said. He added that "90 percent of migrants in Italy come from Libya, and this is the reason why we are so keen on its stabilization."
Libya slid into chaos after the ouster and killing of longtime strongman Col. Moammar Qaddafi in 2011.
Its long coastline on the Mediterranean's southern shore serves as a base for smuggling operations that have launched boats with hundreds of thousands of refugees toward Italy over the last few years. The Libyan coast is more than 300 miles from southern Italy.
Yay?
I’m old enough to remember when it was Congress that authorized the use of force (usually the party opposite to who holds the WH).
I’m old enough to remember when it was Congress that authorized the use of force (usually the party opposite to who holds the WH).
The President has carte blanche to do what he wishes with the military, for 60 days. Beyond that, Congress is required to approve it. It's been this way since 1973.
I’m old enough to remember when it was Congress that authorized the use of force (usually the party opposite to who holds the WH).
The President has carte blanche to do what he wishes with the military, for 60 days. Beyond that, Congress is required to approve it. It's been this way since 1973.
I know... it just seems like we're "always there" with skirmishes for less the 60 days... pause... then another round.
Dear, its not kosher to approve of the use of chemical weapons on civilians in polite company... Though I'm aware of certain user's "do no wrong" stance towards the Russian government and its allies. I guess this lot are Nazis too?
Long as not used a direct fire weapon its perfectly legal.
Smoke, area denial.
It also does kinda work well direct fire....
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
Think the point is that even due to white phosphorus being a chemical/incendiary weapon.
Its use in warfare is still legal?
Best guess...
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
Think the point is that even due to white phosphorus being a chemical/incendiary weapon.
Its use in warfare is still legal?
Best guess...
I’m old enough to remember when it was Congress that authorized the use of force (usually the party opposite to who holds the WH).
The President has carte blanche to do what he wishes with the military, for 60 days. Beyond that, Congress is required to approve it. It's been this way since 1973.
I know... it just seems like we're "always there" with skirmishes for less the 60 days... pause... then another round.
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
You want kosher weapons, here are kosher weapons. No more whataboutism, they lost twice their chance to become real moderates, now they considered as a terrorists and must be destroyed. Even USA agree that
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
You want kosher weapons, here are kosher weapons. No more whataboutism, they lost twice their chance to become real moderates, now they considered as a terrorists and must be destroyed. Even USA agree that
No... no we don't. Our ROE says nothing about dropping munitions on crowds of non-combatants.
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
You want kosher weapons, here are kosher weapons. No more whataboutism, they lost twice their chance to become real moderates, now they considered as a terrorists and must be destroyed. Even USA agree that
No... no we don't. Our ROE says nothing about dropping munitions on crowds of non-combatants.
We have some agreements, says if terrorists and moderates don't want to be separated, they all can be considered as a terrorists
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Sorry, but does that random image of the Israelis shooting smoke into Gaza has any relevance to this thread at all, or is this another case of that patented Russian whataboutism?
You want kosher weapons, here are kosher weapons. No more whataboutism, they lost twice their chance to become real moderates, now they considered as a terrorists and must be destroyed. Even USA agree that
No... no we don't. Our ROE says nothing about dropping munitions on crowds of non-combatants.
We have some agreements, says if terrorists and moderates don't want to be separated, they all can be considered as a terrorists
No... that is not at all how we operate. I've seen more strikes called off because a target was in an area where civilians could be affected, then actual strikes committed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Your nation (Russia), has a very good reputation among US forces as a nation of indiscriminate killers. We do not conduct warfare like you guys do, and I for one am proud of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/03 13:31:43
Tyran wrote: Looking at the article, it doesn't say the Russians dropped the gas. It could have been Assad, or maybe even some other faction.
Dropped by helo's, so it could only be the Syrian military, or Russia. Russia has been quick to the trigger to deny that it was a chemical attack... so, draw your own conclusions.
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3500pts
2000pts 
2000pts plus several small AOS armies 
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
