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 Disciple of Fate wrote:


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 whembly wrote:
I agree.

Time to let the NATO or the UN deal with it.

Whatever we do... we'll be made out as a pariah.

To be honest even not doing anything will have the US take heat. Its just the way it is when the US has hegemony, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

To me... I'd just send cruise missiles to every known Syrian aircrafts and aircraft hangers to send the message.

Other than that? UN, GCC or NATO can deal with the fall out.

KTG17 wrote:
So the title of this thread refers to ISIS, but we're okay talking off-topic about Assad's gas attack? Hard to keep up with the rules on Dakka these days.

My girlfriend has a friend who's family is still in Syria, and when Trump bombed Assad's airfield she cried and was in a panic. Nevermind that the war has already killed 100,000s of people and the base was pretty empty, but she was in such fear that now that the US was involved "it would turn Syria into another Iraq". True story.

I guess we all just look at the world and see and believe what we want.

I hope things don't escalate and cooler heads prevail.

Aye... We have to be careful. We could end up with another Iraq, libya or Somalia.

No one wants that. Even keeping Assad beats that gak show.

Another power vacuum failed state... We do need to give the likes of I sis a second chance.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Well, Trump is now talking intervention.


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 Freakazoitt wrote:
I no longer believe any reports from White Helmets.

I gave up on believing Russians since about Mid Ukraine.

You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ? You know that, not even once, Assad was proven guilty of chemical use in the ghouta ? And the Russian are asking right now for an investigation ? Why not giving him time to be proven guilty or not ?
There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof.
What is even more sad, is my own president is like Dakka: too happy to show he is stronger than President Holland who didn't attack Assad, he jumped on it and will help bomb the poor guys fighting for our freedom...

 whembly wrote:
I agree.

Time to let the NATO or the UN deal with it.

Whatever we do... we'll be made out as a pariah.

Syria is not a NATO member state. The UN has a somewhat tricky relationship with armed intervention. (No matter how badly they wish to: see Rwanda)

Both would still, in theory, involve US deployments, even if they applied.


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 godardc wrote:

You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ?

Yes, them, their radical Christian branch the 'Red Cross' the Palestinian allies the 'Red Crescent' and their secret french masters: Médecins Sans Frontières.

Hilariously, they've occasionally been accused of being stooges of the very guys they're accusing of using Chemical Weapons.

Also, just, FYI, yes, actual chemical munitions have been recovered that were used in Syria, but, hey, why let reality get in the way, Comrade?

 godardc wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Well, Trump is now talking intervention.


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 Freakazoitt wrote:
I no longer believe any reports from White Helmets.

I gave up on believing Russians since about Mid Ukraine.

You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ? You know that, not even once, Assad was proven guilty of chemical use in the ghouta ? And the Russian are asking right now for an investigation ? Why not giving him time to be proven guilty or not ?
There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof.
What is even more sad, is my own president is like Dakka: too happy to show he is stronger than President Holland who didn't attack Assad, he jumped on it and will help bomb the poor guys fighting for our freedom...

The entire of Syria is one giant gak fest.

The truth of anything happening there is a long time lost.
Confirming anything that did or did not happen is borderline impossible.

Thefe so so many intrests, and angles... Facts are just lies.

 godardc wrote:

There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof..

Well, usually because the guys caught on film doing something bad were wearing Russian Uniforms, driving Russian armored vehicles, and collecting Russian paychecks while on 'vacation' from the Russian army. And then we have posters who watch the Russian equivalent of Fox News and believe every word of it. Even in total defiance of things like actual evidence.


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 jhe90 wrote:


The entire of Syria is one giant gak fest.

The truth of anything happening there is a long time lost.
Confirming anything that did or did not happen is borderline impossible.

Thefe so so many intrests, and angles... Facts are just lies.

See, this is where the British Stiff Upper Lip collides with modern cynicism. It's almost as depressing as talking about London weather.

 jhe90 wrote:

 godardc wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Well, Trump is now talking intervention.


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 Freakazoitt wrote:
I no longer believe any reports from White Helmets.

I gave up on believing Russians since about Mid Ukraine.

You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ? You know that, not even once, Assad was proven guilty of chemical use in the ghouta ? And the Russian are asking right now for an investigation ? Why not giving him time to be proven guilty or not ?
There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof.
What is even more sad, is my own president is like Dakka: too happy to show he is stronger than President Holland who didn't attack Assad, he jumped on it and will help bomb the poor guys fighting for our freedom...

The entire of Syria is one giant gak fest.

The truth of anything happening there is a long time lost.
Confirming anything that did or did not happen is borderline impossible.

Thefe so so many intrests, and angles... Facts are just lies.

it also doesnt help that obfuscation of the truth is heavily sought by all involved and the undermining of any idea of objective reality is a key concept of Russia's maskirovka defense strategy.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:
I agree.

Time to let the NATO or the UN deal with it.

Whatever we do... we'll be made out as a pariah.

Syria is not a NATO member state. The UN has a somewhat tricky relationship with armed intervention. (No matter how badly they wish to: see Rwanda)

Both would still, in theory, involve US deployments, even if they applied.


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 godardc wrote:

You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ?

Yes, them, their radical Christian branch the 'Red Cross' the Palestinian allies the 'Red Crescent' and their secret french masters: Médecins Sans Frontières.

Hilariously, they've occasionally been accused of being stooges of the very guys they're accusing of using Chemical Weapons.

Also, just, FYI, yes, actual chemical munitions have been recovered that were used in Syria, but, hey, why let reality get in the way, Comrade?

Several chemical attacks were made in syria, in deed. I don't recall one being being made by Assad, with proofs and all.
They are nothing like the red cross. They are a post war organization, that replaced sanitary service in...terrorist held areas and it has been proven several time, with witnesses and pictures that they work with the terrorists.
Like you know, when they saved people from sarin gaz without any kind of protection, but hey, why let reality get in the way ?


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Red croissant agents were on the area, and found nothing. I can't be the only one wanting proofs ! So what, they are russian agents, too ? Come on, can't you all just be rationnal for one minute ?
Every time the russians are involved in something, you loose your mind. I am being accused of believing propaganda because I want just one little proof...

 godardc wrote:
I don't recall one being being made by Assad, with proofs and all.

The attack on Khan Shaykhun left behind fragments of a KhAB-250. That's not something terrorists are likely to have the means to deploy, since you can't just blow it up on the ground and have it work. You do have to actually drop it from a plane to mix the binary agents. Damascus admitted to launching the airstrike on Khan Sheikhoun with Su-22 fighter-bombers. So, we have planes that could carry this bomb conducting airstrikes at the right time in the right place.

 godardc wrote:

They are nothing like the red cross.

They provide search and rescue services, ambulance, and first aid. However, my sarcasm may not have translated.

 godardc wrote:

They are a post war organization, that replaced sanitary service in...terrorist held areas and it has been proven several time, with witnesses and pictures that they work with the terrorists.

Generally if you're working in an area 'held' by someone you do have to work with them. That does not mean you actually 'are' them, however. You're confusing 'terrorist' with 'collaborator'.

 godardc wrote:

Like you know, when they saved people from sarin gaz without any kind of protection:

I can't say I've either seen nor heard of this incident, but frankly after a sarin drop, you're actually administering to people who've received low doses, since if you're exposed to a lethal dose, you won't live long enough to get to a hospital. (lethal in 1-10 mins after direct inhalation.)

If I remember right the contamination of the area from Sarin lasts something like 30 min. But I may be wrong.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 godardc wrote:

There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof..

Well, usually because the guys caught on film doing something bad were wearing Russian Uniforms, driving Russian armored vehicles, and collecting Russian paychecks while on 'vacation' from the Russian army. And then we have posters who watch the Russian equivalent of Fox News and believe every word of it. Even in total defiance of things like actual evidence.


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 jhe90 wrote:


The entire of Syria is one giant gak fest.

The truth of anything happening there is a long time lost.
Confirming anything that did or did not happen is borderline impossible.

Thefe so so many intrests, and angles... Facts are just lies.

See, this is where the British Stiff Upper Lip collides with modern cynicism. It's almost as depressing as talking about London weather.

Thr London weather is about as changeable as the situation in Syria!

By the time you worked out who holds where and alliances you'd be out of date!

Same with UK weather lol

 godardc wrote:
You know that the white helmet are a terrorist organization, don't you ? You know that, not even once, Assad was proven guilty of chemical use in the ghouta ? And the Russian are asking right now for an investigation ? Why not giving him time to be proven guilty or not ?
There is something strange here on Dakka: everytime something bad happens, it is the Russians. Instead of better and more likely conclusions, like the terrorists that are loosing the war used their last weapons, no, people jump to strange conclusions, with no proof.
What is even more sad, is my own president is like Dakka: too happy to show he is stronger than President Holland who didn't attack Assad, he jumped on it and will help bomb the poor guys fighting for our freedom...

Investigation?
It is so obvious that the Assad regime has committed innumerable war crimes that even if (and its very likely not) this is false you would have a justification to intervene a thousand times over. Your irrational conclusion that all who oppose Assad are somehow terrorists is even more depressing. If the guys fighting for our 'freedom' are doing so by carpet bombing civilians and hospitals I would seriously consider if that would be freedom worth fighting for


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I don't remember who said it, but after the latest chemical attack an expert said what boiled down to this. If its chlorine based it could be rebels, if its nerve gas its Assad.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Your irrational conclusion that all who oppose Assad are somehow terrorists is even more depressing.

I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

Yeah, tragically the PKK could have just gone the way of the FARC or IRA if Erdogan wasn't so power hungry. The last three year is firmly on him.

 BaronIveagh wrote:


Also, just, FYI, yes, actual chemical munitions have been recovered that were used in Syria, but, hey, why let reality get in the way, Comrade?

It's funny that we have a third red scare, when the antagonist isn't even red any more!

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Investigation?
It is so obvious that the Assad regime has committed innumerable war crimes that even if (and its very likely not) this is false you would have a justification to intervene a thousand times over. Your irrational conclusion that all who oppose Assad are somehow terrorists is even more depressing. If the guys fighting for our 'freedom' are doing so by carpet bombing civilians and hospitals I would seriously consider if that would be freedom worth fighting for

Yes, an UN investigation, they asked, and we refused. Pretty surprising, for countries looking for the truth, isn't it ? Maybe our bombing are going to destroy the proofs that the rebels did it, who knows ?

If you don't want to be free, that your business. I am not even surprised by that coming from you. People, I mean, A LOT of people, died for us to be free today.
If you lived during the Revolution, you wouldn't even have fought for freedom, you would have just asked people to remain slaves, because slavery is better than bloodshed, wouldn't you ?

You think after almost a decade of fighting, the democrats that we never helped, that we gave up so many years ago, are still here, waiting for us ? No, they died, they fled, or they find people who listened to them, that helped them: the extremist islamists, and they joined them. Even the "moderate" that obama trained and armed joined them !

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

Yeah, tragically the PKK could have just gone the way of the FARC or IRA if Erdogan wasn't so power hungry. The last three year is firmly on him.

Yeah, poor kurds, I hope that, in the end, everything will be ok for them and that they, at last, get their country. It's a tragedy, they did so much for crushing isis, and we let them to die

 godardc wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Investigation?
It is so obvious that the Assad regime has committed innumerable war crimes that even if (and its very likely not) this is false you would have a justification to intervene a thousand times over. Your irrational conclusion that all who oppose Assad are somehow terrorists is even more depressing. If the guys fighting for our 'freedom' are doing so by carpet bombing civilians and hospitals I would seriously consider if that would be freedom worth fighting for

Yes, an UN investigation, they asked, and we refused. Pretty surprising, for countries looking for the truth, isn't it ? Maybe our bombing are going to destroy the proofs that the rebels did it, who knows ?

If you don't want to be free, that your business. I am not even surprised by that coming from you. People, I mean, A LOT of people, died for us to be free today.
If you lived during the Revolution, you wouldn't even have fought for freedom, you would have just asked people to remain slaves, because slavery is better than bloodshed, wouldn't you ?

You think after almost a decade of fighting, the democrats that we never helped, that we gave up so many years ago, are still here, waiting for us ? No, they died, they fled, or they find people who listened to them, that helped them: the extremist islamists, and they joined them. Even the "moderate" that obama trained and armed joined them !

Actually we didn't refuse, the Russians did. The US proposed an OPCW (a neutral organisation) investigation in which the OPCW can point out the perpetrator. Russia wanted an OPCW investigation in which the Security Council could assign the blame, you know the one where Russia can veto anything they don't like as a conclusion? Wow, so convenient! Whatever happened to that UN Security Council MH17 investigation? Oh yeah, Russia killed that one too!

I don't know, I'd like to be free, but I wouldn't like being carpet bombed and murdered to achieve said 'freedom'. Assad is the slaver, people protested for more democracy and he bombed them. When Assad faced the moment he might lose control over his 'slaves' he decided he'd rather murder and torture every last one of them.

Yeah all the moderates died, you know why? Because your 'freedom' fighters started off murdering the moderates before they went after the more radical elements. While Western backed Kurds fought and died to try and defeat IS, Assad had an uneasy alliance with IS for years. Assad didn't beat IS, he just rolled in once the Kurds and the US air campaign had done the heavy lifting.

 godardc wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

Yeah, tragically the PKK could have just gone the way of the FARC or IRA if Erdogan wasn't so power hungry. The last three year is firmly on him.

Yeah, poor kurds, I hope that, in the end, everything will be ok for them and that they, at last, get their country. It's a tragedy, they did so much for crushing isis, and we let them to die

There was never much hope for the Kurds, everybody in the region hates them. This whole Erdogan attacking the Kurds thing that going on started off as a cynical but successful attempt by Erdogan to get more votes to later crown himself emperor for life.

Well, Trump has announced in a way that he flambe'd Obama for that missiles are on their way.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43727829

Couldn't find the link, but looks like all Russian Naval ships have left that Syrian base...

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
don't remember who said it, but after the latest chemical attack an expert said what boiled down to this. If its chlorine based it could be rebels, if its nerve gas its Assad.

Assad's nerve agent stockpiles were dismantled, it was part of the agreement Obama brokered. Since then Assad has used chlorine.

This has caused a few problems, because its much harder now to establish Assad was behind a chemical attack. It's also much harder to target any facilities making this possible, because chlorine is going to be in any industrial area.


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 BaronIveagh wrote:
I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

There are active terror groups within the Kurds, and it isn't like those groups are wholly seperate. There is seperation from more conventional Kurdish forces, but the line is constantly shifting.

That doesn't mean the Kurds are bad or their cause unjust, but it does mean there's some grounds to calling at least some of the seperatists terrorists.


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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Personally on the average suffering scale I believe chemical attacks > artillery/bombs, though that depends on the chemical obviously. The thing is some/most victims of explosions die horrid deaths, vs gas where they all do. As for the rest, well I did say you have somewhat of a point--I didn't mean to disregard the argument but rather comment on the logic of chemical attacks being considered worse than generic bomb ones. At the end of the day it's just about where global society has deemed these things fall on the acceptability scale, which as always is one part logic one part history and one part emotion.

Yeah, I'm not sure there's much value in debating the fine details of how much suffering there is in one attack against another.

Thing is, as you say history and emotion play in to this. Society tends to produce taboos, things that we will not do, and they have a powerful emotional impact on people. These taboos will often continue long after the circumstances that caused them faded away, breaches of them will still shock people, even though when prompted they can struggle to explain why it is still a taboo.

 sebster wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I find how easily that we call people like the Kurds 'terrorists' just because a psychopath like Erdogan thinks so depressing. It's almost like the word has lost all meaning anymore.

There are active terror groups within the Kurds, and it isn't like those groups are wholly seperate. There is seperation from more conventional Kurdish forces, but the line is constantly shifting.

That doesn't mean the Kurds are bad or their cause unjust, but it does mean there's some grounds to calling at least some of the seperatists terrorists.

I think the terrorist label was applied much more easily in the 2000's. The PKK went into an uneasy truce with the Turkish government that actually worked until 2015. When the Turkish Kurds started getting more politically involved with a new party. Of course this would damage Erdogan's chances in the upcoming election to expand his authoritarian might. So he pushed the PKK back into conflict to gain votes and start arresting the new 'Kurdish' party for thought crimes. Erdogan engineered the PKK's return to terrorism just so he could crown himself emperor down the line. I think that labelling the Kurds as terrorists considering the circumstances in Turkey nowadays is quite a bit unfair. Yeah as a definition its correct, but it carries heavy negative undertones that people will pick up on after events like 9/11 without knowing the full story

 sebster wrote:

Assad's nerve agent stockpiles were dismantled, it was part of the agreement Obama brokered. Since then Assad has used chlorine.

Well, welcome to the new Assad. (and you don't stockpile sarin, since it's lifespan can be measured in just weeks)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/u-s-has-blood-samples-show-nerve-agent-syria-gas-n865431

Reports are in that blood and urine samples taken by hospitals and US agents on the ground have tested positive for both an 'unnamed nerve agent' and chlorine.

OPCW and Turkey have both confirmed that chemical byproducts of sarin undergoing decomposition have been found on victims and in autopsies on victims.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39500947

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/u-s-officials-confirm-chlorine-nerve-agent-found-in-blood-urine-from-syrian-victims-1.5994632

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
I think the terrorist label was applied much more easily in the 2000's. The PKK went into an uneasy truce with the Turkish government that actually worked until 2015. When the Turkish Kurds started getting more politically involved with a new party. Of course this would damage Erdogan's chances in the upcoming election to expand his authoritarian might. So he pushed the PKK back into conflict to gain votes and start arresting the new 'Kurdish' party for thought crimes. Erdogan engineered the PKK's return to terrorism just so he could crown himself emperor down the line. I think that labelling the Kurds as terrorists considering the circumstances in Turkey nowadays is quite a bit unfair. Yeah as a definition its correct, but it carries heavy negative undertones that people will pick up on after events like 9/11 without knowing the full story

Agreed on every point. I'm just saying its hard to dispute the terrorist label, because it isn't untrue for some parts of the Kurdish seperatists. Which does mean some people like Erdogan use it without context, and it becomes hard to completely dispute.


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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Well, welcome to the new Assad. (and you don't stockpile sarin, since it's lifespan can be measured in just weeks)

Interesting, thanks. It must have been the facilities that were dismantled in 2013.

So, the airstrikes were made last night. 3 targets hit.
What now ? Still no real and strong Russian reaction, fortunately.
I don't really understand why hitting 3 so called storage and chemical research facilities, I mean what did this improve ? How has it made our position better ?
We just got Putin angree for no gain (because, as everyone know, there are no chemical facilities in Syria since 2013, so I don't know what they really stiked).

Meanwhile RT's saying that the Russian MoD's considering outfitting the Syrians with air defence systems, and the Russian/ Syria side is already playing up all the civilian casualties (ignoring all those dead civilians that Assad's created over the past years).

Hopefully we'll see the end of Assad soon, and then the Russians will reign back all their faux pas on the international stage. Though probably not, in part due to the later, and it'll just escalate. Given that all the other tactics in ousting Assad have failed so far (yes, including funding the opposition), it looks like we're edging closer to those UN resolutions which the Russians repeated vetoed years ago going ahead (just with the issue that Russia now has troops in the country). Where it must be restated, that the only reason that Assad's still in power and capable of continuing his terror campaign is due to the Russians backing him. ...Which leads to anyone who supports their causing knowing that he's killing his own people to me in a questionable state ("Oh he's a stabilising factor". ...The reason there's a war there in the first place is from him gunning down protesters and spreading insurrection by preemptively targeting civilians he didn't like)

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Meanwhile RT's saying that the Russian MoD's considering outfitting the Syrians with air defence systems, and the Russian/ Syria side is already playing up all the civilian casualties (ignoring all those dead civilians that Assad's created over the past years).

Hopefully we'll see the end of Assad soon, and then the Russians will reign back all their faux pas on the international stage. Though probably not, in part due to the later, and it'll just escalate. Given that all the other tactics in ousting Assad have failed so far (yes, including funding the opposition), it looks like we're edging closer to those UN resolutions which the Russians repeated vetoed years ago going ahead (just with the issue that Russia now has troops in the country). Where it must be restated, that the only reason that Assad's still in power and capable of continuing his terror campaign is due to the Russians backing him. ...Which leads to anyone who supports their causing knowing that he's killing his own people to me in a questionable state ("Oh he's a stabilising factor". ...The reason there's a war there in the first place is from him gunning down protesters and spreading insurrection by preemptively targeting civilians he didn't like)

I honestly think its too late to see the end of Assad. He is firmly back in control and the few rebels that are left are being driven back into a shrinking area. Thanks to empy Erdogan the Kurds might be willing to fall in with Assad just to try and stop Turkey from murdering them.

Last nights airstrikes just demonstrate the West's heart isn't in it. Because next time its going to be for realsies! Which is the 4th or 5th time by now. Sadly its hard to foresee a future where the murdering feth isn't in control until he croaks at this rate.

 godardc wrote:
So, the airstrikes were made last night. 3 targets hit.
What now ? Still no real and strong Russian reaction, fortunately.
I don't really understand why hitting 3 so called storage and chemical research facilities, I mean what did this improve ? How has it made our position better ?
We just got Putin angree for no gain (because, as everyone know, there are no chemical facilities in Syria since 2013, so I don't know what they really stiked).

Because the Syrian government 100% destroyed all chemical plants and made no attempt to replace them... of course they did. Please do tell me, if all chemical weapons were destroyed and never replaced, where did the ones come from in the recent attacks?

I see three possible answers to this:

1) Syria is lieing.
2) The weapons came from elsewhere
3) The attack didn’t happen.

Given the overwhelming amount of evidence of an attack 3 must be wrong. 2 leaves the possibility it was not the Syrian government, but if another force can get the weapons then they can.

What we gained is basically saying “we will destroy any chemical plants. Stop using chemical weapons”.

 godardc wrote:
So, the airstrikes were made last night. 3 targets hit.
What now ? Still no real and strong Russian reaction, fortunately.
I don't really understand why hitting 3 so called storage and chemical research facilities, I mean what did this improve ? How has it made our position better ?
We just got Putin angree for no gain (because, as everyone know, there are no chemical facilities in Syria since 2013, so I don't know what they really stiked).

Fortunately it was a carefully orchestrated "I'm not touching you" dance.

 Steve steveson wrote:

What we gained is basically saying “we will destroy any chemical plants. Stop using chemical weapons”.

Without provinding any rationale for why the Syrian government would order the use of chemical weapons when it's winning the war.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 godardc wrote:
So, the airstrikes were made last night. 3 targets hit.
What now ? Still no real and strong Russian reaction, fortunately.
I don't really understand why hitting 3 so called storage and chemical research facilities, I mean what did this improve ? How has it made our position better ?
We just got Putin angree for no gain (because, as everyone know, there are no chemical facilities in Syria since 2013, so I don't know what they really stiked).

Fortunately it was a carefully orchestrated "I'm not touching you" dance.

 Steve steveson wrote:

What we gained is basically saying “we will destroy any chemical plants. Stop using chemical weapons”.

Without provinding any rationale for why the Syrian government would order the use of chemical weapons when it's winning the war.

Here's a crazy theory. Because Assad is a mad man, whose strings are being pulled by a despot who just wants to keep tweaking the noses of the international community?

Its perfectly rational why Assad uses chemical weapons. He knows the international response will be mediocre at best and cracking the tougher parts of rebel resistance outweighs the cost of taking a few bombs. Yes Assad is winning, but he wants to have won. Every second the war drags on is taking on unneeded risk for him.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 godardc wrote:
So, the airstrikes were made last night. 3 targets hit.
What now ? Still no real and strong Russian reaction, fortunately.
I don't really understand why hitting 3 so called storage and chemical research facilities, I mean what did this improve ? How has it made our position better ?
We just got Putin angree for no gain (because, as everyone know, there are no chemical facilities in Syria since 2013, so I don't know what they really stiked).

Fortunately it was a carefully orchestrated "I'm not touching you" dance.

 Steve steveson wrote:

What we gained is basically saying “we will destroy any chemical plants. Stop using chemical weapons”.

Without provinding any rationale for why the Syrian government would order the use of chemical weapons when it's winning the war.

Why does it matter why they used them? The fact is that the evidence overwhelmingly points to the Syrian government using chemical weapons time and again against its own people and being willing to do it again. The why is not important. Only Russia and Syria claim anything else, and even they have bizarrely non consitant stories. One moment nothing ever happened, the next it was the rebels using the weapons, the next it is all staged by the US and UK. The why is not really relevant.