Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi!

I've decided to try this out as a hobby and am a bit overwhelmed with all the information as I look to pick out an army. I think I've finally settled on Eldar though.

My question is, particularly for Eldar players, would you guys suggest buying a starter kit or are there other units you'd suggest starting out with (or a mixture of both)?

I don't want to spend a bunch of money redoing my army, so what units are you guys most happy with for Eldar?

I've noticed from my confused and brief research that people mention Farseers as important to an Eldar army and the kit doesn't come with that.

I'd like to stay under $200.

I generally don't recommend starter kits. You don't actually save any money, its just a selection of units. Personally, I would get the Codex and battle rulebook first, as those are kind of pricey. Next, I'd flip through the codex, maybe watch some battle reports and google some Eldar army lists, and then start buying units. Generally, 1 HQ and 2 troops are enough to get a 500 point army which you can use to play combat patrol style games. You may have to redo part of your army, but eBay is a great use for 2nd hand and used models. Best of luck to ya.

The Battleforce actually saves you $33, and if you add a Farseer (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Eldar-Farseer it makes a legal army (1 HQ, 2 Troops). You basically get a free Vyper, which some people rate well and others don't. Dire Avengers and Wave Serpents will definitely play a part in your army, and Guardians are viable as well, but if you're after a theme (Wraiths, Saim Hann jetbikes) or are going to be really competitive you're better off buying individual units.

Depending on what's near you, independent retailers will generally sell GW things for a 10-25% discount.

Put the Farseer on the back of the Vyper, and play it as a jetbike.

If you're going to use all the models in the Battleforce, go for it. You get a unit for free. If you're not going to use that unit, you've lost nothing.
Price up the box using individual unit boxes and see what the price comes to. Do the same against the price you can get it at, if not direct from GW.

But, first, get the rules and codex, and work out what kind of force you want to run.
All jetbikes? Skip the box and go custom.
Wraith army, go custom.
Footdar? Get the box, and use the WS for Fire Dragons or the DA squad.


As for me, I use my Warp Spiders every chance I get. I don't use Wraiths much, just 1 or 2 Wraithlords sometime, but I bought some Wraithguard a while ago to put my Spiritseer with.
The Crimson Hunter is great, too, but that depends on your meta. Do your opponents games against fliers?

In general, if a bundle comes in a box, it has a savings. If it’s just a web-collection on the e-store, you get nothing for picking it up.

The boxes can save you money, but if you don’t want what’s in there, the savings go away fast.

I’d pick up the codex first. That or do a lot of reading online to figure out what kind of army you want to play. While some Eldar armies are stronger then others on the table, there are a lot of viable options for what to play. You want to get the units that fit your style. And if your army overlaps with the battleforce, that’s a lucky break, you saved some cash.

But as was pointed out above, the battleforce doesn’t overlap with a lot of the Eldar armies out there.

Edit: Oh, and Welcome to Dakka!

I think the eldar starter kit is fine.

Most eldar armies that people see as "competitive" consist of jetbikes as troops, or guardians/dire avengers in a waveserpent.

You would still need to pick up something for your HQ, most people would pick a farseer because psychic powers are fairly useful.

If you are paying full retal price for these, you could get:

starter kit $140
farseer $25
additional vyper $36

total= $201

would give you a waveserpent, 10 guardians+support platform, farseer, dire avengers, and 2vypers.

Which honestly is a decent force, especially at $200.

Welcome to Dakka, mantarays! The first purchase I would make would be the codex. Look at the pretty pictures in the book and online, and browse the Dakka army lists and tactics subforums to see how people are constructing lists. The battleforce boxes and army boxes do save some money, but they may also contain units that don't appeal to you.

Lastly, I would always suggest buying models that you think look cool before worrying about how well they do in game.

EDIT: NVM, noticed other people already pointed it out!

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

I guess the consensus is I still have to do more research on different types of eldar armies and what I like!

It's also helpful to know that the cost benefits of a starter kit is basically one free unit.


EDIT:

 Skinnereal wrote:

As for me, I use my Warp Spiders every chance I get. I don't use Wraiths much, just 1 or 2 Wraithlords sometime, but I bought some Wraithguard a while ago to put my Spiritseer with.
The Crimson Hunter is great, too, but that depends on your meta. Do your opponents games against fliers?

Based on how we play Starcraft, everyone will go heavy air if they can (probably me too, because I do like air...). That said, one of my friends is doing ork mekmob and I didn't notice much air in the starter kit he got.
Another friend is playing necro, another chaos space marines, and the last is still undecided.

Eldar have it very nice right now. Pick what you want. Put it on table. In anything but a very comparative meta, you'll do fine/well. So I strongly suggest getting the codex, and paging through it to see what you like.

40k doesn't do air spam well for most armies. Necrons can, and you'll hate the CSM Hellturkey, but aside from that, air probably won't be dominating their lists.

A big question we can't answer is what kind of meta are you expecting? Was your group the kind that would write out build orders for StarCraft, and every game was SRS Biznez? Or did you guys just log in and throw stuff at each other? Basically, competitive or casual?

If you all liked air, you'll probably be seeing a lot of vehicles. Take look at the Eldar Grav tanks. They aren't flyers, but they might be what you're looking for.

As has been said, the best idea is to page through the Eldar codex, and see what you like. There are a lot of different ways to do Eldar. And most of them are tons of fun.

As for what to start with, the battle box gives you the two troops, and a Serpent for one. Plus a free vyper. If you'll use those troops, it is a good way to start. But I wouldn't buy a second vyper just yet. They are fun, but diversity is fun too. For HQ, an Autarch would be easier to learn, but a Farseer is a lot more fun (and usually effective).

Traditional army styles generally track after a specific craft world. Most of them are good on the table top. Note that any craft world can field any tactic, but they usually use what they're known for.

Craft world's:
-Biel-Tan - Swordwind - basically, a box of each Aspect type you want, and extra Dire Avengers to take objectives. Transports for those that need them (Fire Dragons, for example). Any HQ works. Each unit is a specialist with its own role. Use the wrong unit for the wrong thing, and it won't do much. But can be very brutal. Things go wrong, and your guys die easily. Probably my favorite.

- Uthwe - Black Guardians - Lots of Guardians. On foot or in Serpents. Defenders and Vauls Wrath artillery. Fluff-wise, includes Warlocks and a Farseer. Works great with an Avatar. Very few, if any, Aspect Warriors. Basically, an anvil army, with artillery to force them into it. And the Guardians can move forward without much difficulty.

- Sam-Hainn - Windriders - Jetbikes. And jetbikes. And gravtanks. And jetbikes. Very mobile. The tanks can do a lot of dakka. Guardians on Bikes can go wherever they want, whenever they want, basically. And jetbikes are so cheap now, they can have a lot of them. Both Autarchs and Farseers (and Warlocks) can take jetbikes. People often suggest putting them on the back of a Vyper. It works, and if you ignore the pilot, is WYSIWYG compliant. I don't think it looks 'right', but I'm in the minority. At any rate, jetbikes. If you want to zoom across the board all game and never commit, nobody does it like Sam-Hain. Not my favorite, but a lot of people love this style. And now its effective.

- Iyanden -Wraiths - Wraithspam basically. A spiritseer (or more than one), and Wraith guard/blades are troops. Take them. And more of them. And maybe a Wraithlord/knight. At 5 or 6 models, guard/blades can use a Serpent. Very durable, but very low model count. The only slow Eldar build, really.

- Yme'lock (I think?) - Tanks. Serpents, Falcons, Fire Prisms, etc. Your only non-vehicles are small Dire Avengers in Falcons (or, possibly, Serpents). And they never leave their tanks. Mech, like this, is brutal. If you want to do this, and still have friends, I strongly suggest Falcons, as Serpents are brokenly OP right now.

- Alaitoc - Rangers/all of the above - Alaitoc is known for Rangers, so people expect a unit or two of them. But Alaitoc use a combination of just about everything.

- Craft world Wyn'yt'eill'kozts - Don't need no friends - (might have made this craft world up). Lots of min Dire Avengers squads in Wave Serpents backed by a Wraithknight. Fill remaining points with anti-tank. Most Eldar lists these days are built this way. Leads to uninteresting matches where you shoot the opponent off the table and they can't really hurt you. Consensus is this is OP right now. And it doesn't really feel like Eldar. Your friends won't enjoy the game if you do this. Avoid the Knight at first, and keep Serpents to a minimum.

Don't go starter kit (yet). You need to ask yourself a question first.

How do I want to play?

All armies are a mixture of three categories: Cheesy, Balanced, and Themed.

Cheesy armies are lists that take advantage of current edition rules to field units that are currently more powerful then their peers. These guys are trophy chasers.

Balanced armies are well rounded armies that don't excel at any one particular thing, they have a lot of diversity between units and can handle all situations.

Themed armies can be fluffy and generally utilize a min/max strategy. Example: an scouting themed army with mostly snipers and light walkers, a ghost army of wraithguard/lords/knights and their spirit seer guides, or a war host of jet bikes and skimmers.

Imagine a triangle, with each point being one of the 3 categories. Your army can fall anywhere in that triangle.

If you decide on a balanced army, the starter box is a good starting point. If you decide on a themed or cheesy army, don't get the starter box. Determine your theme / cheese of choice.

Your first purchase should be an HQ, two troops, and the rules (codex/rulebook).
Here's a little guide for troops: Rangers for a Sniper Army. Wraithguard for a Ghost Army. Jetbikes for a Mobility Army. Guardians for a Massive Army. Dire Avengers for a Aspect Army. Any of these choices (minus rangers and jet bikes) can be taken with a Waveserpent (more mobility, less numbers) or without (less mobility, more numbers). Mobile is generally more competitive.
HQ's are all preference. Be wary of point costs though. I'd advise against an avatar, and I recommend a Farseer or Spiritseer over Special Characters / Autarchs (but they are still good options if you like them).

Once you get these basics down, try to join in some games. Play with a 1500 pt army vs a 1750 and feel the game out. Learn the rules, you might start with a speedy army but find they are too fragile for your play style. Once you are set on what you actually like, then it's time to expand.

One more question you should ask yourself is do I want to take allies from other armies? If you go with elder, you can also utilize dark elder, and imperial armies and the tau to a lesser extent. Or you might want to run only Eldar. The choice is yours.

I'd advise doing the above first, and bring up an expanding topic when you've got some bearing.
-DB

Start off with a box of whichever troops you like and a HQ of your choice (don't worry about rules with these, just get whichever you like) and a Codex.

If you go to a gaming store they'll be able to give you intro games and you can split the troops box into 2 troops units to make it legal and once you get the hang of it you can decide which troops choice to get next and then something else.

When your ready get the rule book, I've been playing since last summer and only just got the rules now when I bought Stormclaw.

I didn't want to fork out for the standard rules so I waited until they released a box set which interested me and it hasn't been much of an issue as most people have been friendly enough to help me out.

Once you've got the basics down make lists of 500pts, 750pts and 1000pts which you can aim for. You could post them here as well to get advise.

Have fun with it

Personally, I would go with either a farseer or spiritseer, dire avengers in wave serpents, wraithknights and war walkers. If your opponent is fond of flyers, replace the walkers with a crimson hunter. Don't listen to all the people telling you its some kind of crime to pick the best units for your army. Also, I built my army when I first started the hobby based on "rule of cool". Several months and several hundred dollars later I realized I wasn't going to win a game until I built my army based on what actually works instead of just what looks cool. The only thing I still use from my early days is 3 squads of grey hunters. I have 2 dreads, a rhino, ragnar, logan and a scout squad that haven't seen the table in months if not longer because of this.

The thing with the Crimson Hunter is that you can kit it out as a sniper-type.
The Exarch upgrade lets you swap the BLs for Starcannon, which are Heavy2 each. That's 6 shots per turn at 36".
Also, there is an Exarch upgrade to allow Precision Shots on a 5 or 6. It hits on 2s anyway.
So, taking the rolls in an average turn, of the 6 shots, 1 will miss, 3 will hit, and for the other 2 you get to choose the target model.
If your group plays a lot of fliers, taking 2-3 CH in either configuration should do you well.

Sorry for the late reply, but wow, thank you everyone for taking the time to give me all this great advice!

Bharring wrote:
A big question we can't answer is what kind of meta are you expecting? Was your group the kind that would write out build orders for StarCraft, and every game was SRS Biznez? Or did you guys just log in and throw stuff at each other? Basically, competitive or casual?

Thanks especially, Bharring, for your long and detailed post. As for your question about Starcraft, it was a bit of both. At a certain high point, we'd be writing out build orders and timing everything. In the end though, we often opted closer to throwing stuff at each other cause this was more fun/less stressful; and then every once a blue moon, we get nitty gritty strategy crazy hermits. But it was generally considered 'no fun' if a player rushed another player early game and completely wiped them out cause they'd have nothing to do for the next 40 minutes. <- this also applies to when we play Civ and a player decides to wipe out a player's entire civilization and knock 'em out of the game.

It's difficult to answer, cause within the group there are varying playstyles. On one end, we have a very head-strong, just for fun, doesn't mind that he loses; and on the other, we have one who researches everything and spends their free time making plans and practicing. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle of that, leaning on the right, but tend to be lazy. So, essentially, a bit of both, but more so on the casual end.



I am very indecisive.

Once you have 3+ people ready to play, you might want to try team games or FFA games of Warhammer. Those are my favorite games, personally. Lots of crazy fun that can be had that way.

Welcome to the hobby, and of course, feel free to ask any further questions!