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Made in us
Lurking Gaunt



New York

As the title says & In 7th Edition Rules:

If I have a Space Marine that is 2" away from the long side of a Flying Monstrous Creatures or Zooming Flyers base, can that model move through the base of that Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer?

Points to note:

1. In Flying Monstrous Creatures it states that you can move "beneath" the model, but may not end your movement within 1" of the base.
2. In Movement, under "Moving Through Models" it specifically states you can not move through another model.

Thank you for your time.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






The FMC / Flyer rule is more specific than the general "you can't move through other models" rule (if it wasn't, there would be no point writing the rule as it wouldn't work).

In cases of conflict between rules, the more specific rule wins (i.e. you cannot move & shoot normally with a Heavy weapon, but Relentless is a more specific rule allowing you to override that).

This is also known as Basic vs. Advanced in some circles.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

No.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




notbriang wrote:
As the title says & In 7th Edition Rules:

If I have a Space Marine that is 2" away from the long side of a Flying Monstrous Creatures or Zooming Flyers base, can that model move through the base of that Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer?

Points to note:

1. In Flying Monstrous Creatures it states that you can move "beneath" the model, but may not end your movement within 1" of the base.
2. In Movement, under "Moving Through Models" it specifically states you can not move through another model.

Thank you for your time.


Yes, you cane move through (but not end on) the base if you have sufficient movement. So a space marine biker can race right through that base but a foot slogger probably can't make it all the way across while maintaining 1" spacing. A 2d6 charge may or may not make it. In a friendly game you could ask to be allowed to run past it as part of the movement phase but RAW not.


Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it.
...
If a Flyer is Hovering, it is treated exactly as a Fast Skimmer.


As long as it is swooping or zooming, yes you can move under it so long as you don't land ON the base when you end your turn. If it is hovering, then it is treated as a skimmer and to get within 1" you need to be assaulting.

If someone is making a "wall" of unassaultability with flyers, just hold them to the RAW in terms of restrictions on when they can move and pivot and try to jam up his movement since:

If a Zooming Flyer is forced to move less than 18" in its own Movement phase, it is automatically Wrecked.


Flyers are a lot less powerful if you force them to be played RAW with precisely limited movement. It may make you feel like a to do it, but their limited movement and firing angles are the only shred of balance on any that have AV11+.



   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt



New York

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
notbriang wrote:
As the title says & In 7th Edition Rules:

If I have a Space Marine that is 2" away from the long side of a Flying Monstrous Creatures or Zooming Flyers base, can that model move through the base of that Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer?

Points to note:

1. In Flying Monstrous Creatures it states that you can move "beneath" the model, but may not end your movement within 1" of the base.
2. In Movement, under "Moving Through Models" it specifically states you can not move through another model.

Thank you for your time.


Yes, you cane move through (but not end on) the base if you have sufficient movement. So a space marine biker can race right through that base but a foot slogger probably can't make it all the way across while maintaining 1" spacing. A 2d6 charge may or may not make it. In a friendly game you could ask to be allowed to run past it as part of the movement phase but RAW not.


Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it.
...
If a Flyer is Hovering, it is treated exactly as a Fast Skimmer.


As long as it is swooping or zooming, yes you can move under it so long as you don't land ON the base when you end your turn. If it is hovering, then it is treated as a skimmer and to get within 1" you need to be assaulting.

If someone is making a "wall" of unassaultability with flyers, just hold them to the RAW in terms of restrictions on when they can move and pivot and try to jam up his movement since:

If a Zooming Flyer is forced to move less than 18" in its own Movement phase, it is automatically Wrecked.


Flyers are a lot less powerful if you force them to be played RAW with precisely limited movement. It may make you feel like a to do it, but their limited movement and firing angles are the only shred of balance on any that have AV11+.





Could you cite a specific source for the allowance to move through the base? I'd just like to be able to point this out as specifically as possible in real world discussion with my gaming group.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

notbriang wrote:
Could you cite a specific source for the allowance to move through the base? I'd just like to be able to point this out as specifically as possible in real world discussion with my gaming group.


There is no allowance to move through another models base.

You can not do it.

The part about ignoring a flyers base is only for measuring, not for moving. That is why the rule about ignoring the flyers base is in the section titled Flyers and Measuring.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




notbriang wrote:

Could you cite a specific source for the allowance to move through the base? I'd just like to be able to point this out as specifically as possible in real world discussion with my gaming group.


It is under Flyers and Measuring:

The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:


Combine "move beneath the model" with "ignore the base" (outside of CC/disembark) and you are good.

Note this applies only to a zooming/swooping FLYER, not a SKIMMER (which is how you treat a non-zooming/swooping flyer).

   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
notbriang wrote:

Could you cite a specific source for the allowance to move through the base? I'd just like to be able to point this out as specifically as possible in real world discussion with my gaming group.


It is under Flyers and Measuring:

The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored, except for when:


Combine "move beneath the model" with "ignore the base" (outside of CC/disembark) and you are good.

Note this applies only to a zooming/swooping FLYER, not a SKIMMER (which is how you treat a non-zooming/swooping flyer).



And that applies to Flyers and Measuring.

Now find a rule stating you can ignore the base as you move. because that is what you need to find to be able to move through the space occupied by a flyers base.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If you will ignore the part that says "ignore the base" and focus only on this:

Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1" away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1" of other enemy models.


then I assume you think the "can move beneath it" portion refers only to wings etc that stick out beyond the base? So nothing can move "beneath" a storm talon?


Flyers and Measuring:
The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored,

I think that that part is the more reasonable reading, but I'll agree that your perspective is also a legitimate one, if not how people in my meta play.

That said, I do hope that anyone who reads restrictively on that part of flyers rules also volunteers to wreck their flyer if it is zooming and can't move the 18.0" to 36" without getting within 1" of another model's base while scrupulously following the single, no more than 90* pivot rule.


   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Why are you using rules for measuring (Flyers and Measuring) when you're not measuring?

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
If you will ignore the part that says "ignore the base" and focus only on this:

Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1" away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1" of other enemy models.


then I assume you think the "can move beneath it" portion refers only to wings etc that stick out beyond the base? So nothing can move "beneath" a storm talon?


Flyers and Measuring:
The base of a Flyer is effectively ignored,

I think that that part is the more reasonable reading, but I'll agree that your perspective is also a legitimate one, if not how people in my meta play.

That said, I do hope that anyone who reads restrictively on that part of flyers rules also volunteers to wreck their flyer if it is zooming and can't move the 18.0" to 36" without getting within 1" of another model's base while scrupulously following the single, no more than 90* pivot rule.



Sure, I follow that rule strictly. because its nearly impossible that a flyer will not have somewhere within that 90 degree arc and between 18 and 36" to drop.

Thats around 324 square inches of board space that would need to be completely covered by or within 1" of enemy models.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
If you will ignore the part that says "ignore the base" and focus only on this:

Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1" away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1" of other enemy models.


then I assume you think the "can move beneath it" portion refers only to wings etc that stick out beyond the base? So nothing can move "beneath" a storm talon?

Moving beneath a flyer is not permission to move across its base.

Your models can not do it unless they are jump or jet pack units anyway, as models only are ever given allowance to move through terrain and a models base is not terrain.

 Ghaz wrote:
Why are you using rules for measuring (Flyers and Measuring) when you're not measuring?

Exactly what Ghaz said, why are you bringing up rules for measuring when you are moving?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/19 17:59:10


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
 
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