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So I have a can of Krylon Matte black primer. I normally use it as such, but for my Ravenwing, I spray it and use this as a basecoat. Other than painting the trim and details, this is usually how I leave them, no varnish or anything. They can be a little rough to the touch, but I love how the primer leaves the black kind of flat and rought, like I would consider normal used aarmor to be. What are your guys' thoughts? Is this a cheap copout or do you usually use primer as a basecoat?

i use krylon ultra flat paint for my base coats. black and green lately green for my nids and black for marines

Do you follow it up with something else like a varnish or shading, or do you just leave it as is?

I recommend to make coat of black Vallejo model or mat black from Tamiya and use hairdryer, its make black super mat, same for mate varnish.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Is this a cheap copout or do you usually use primer as a basecoat?

Are you happy with the finish? Yes? Good enough.

I "prime" my Orks with a flat black enamel rattlecan (Walmart's ColorPlace flat black). It's what I started with, it's cheap, and it's effective, so I've stuck with it for the sake of continuity. For their black clothing, I just leave the sprayed black showing. Admittedly, the whole model does get varnished (a coat or two of gloss, followed by Testors Dullcote), so it's not quite a bare sprayed finish, but I'd consider it comparable and I'm satisfied with the results. The matte finish catches enough diffuse light that, even without any highlights, the black sections don't become a glaringly plain surface. The skin and details usually attract the bulk of the attention, anyway. As a slow, sporadic painter putting together a horde army, I'm fine taking some shortcuts.

As with anything in the painting world, the results are far more important than the methods. Tools and techniques are just that - finding a quicker/easier way to get the results you want isn't "cheating" or "copping out," it's just economical. I'm sure there are plenty of painters that would advise against leaving bare primer for any number of reasons (some technical, some aesthetic), but if you save yourself time and effort and are happy with the look, keep doing what you're doing. If you want to broaden your skill set, win competitions, impress other painters, etc. then it's a habit you should probably get out of.

 oadie wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Is this a cheap copout or do you usually use primer as a basecoat?

Are you happy with the finish? Yes? Good enough.

I "prime" my Orks with a flat black enamel rattlecan (Walmart's ColorPlace flat black). It's what I started with, it's cheap, and it's effective, so I've stuck with it for the sake of continuity. For their black clothing, I just leave the sprayed black showing. Admittedly, the whole model does get varnished (a coat or two of gloss, followed by Testors Dullcote), so it's not quite a bare sprayed finish, but I'd consider it comparable and I'm satisfied with the results. The matte finish catches enough diffuse light that, even without any highlights, the black sections don't become a glaringly plain surface. The skin and details usually attract the bulk of the attention, anyway. As a slow, sporadic painter putting together a horde army, I'm fine taking some shortcuts.

As with anything in the painting world, the results are far more important than the methods. Tools and techniques are just that - finding a quicker/easier way to get the results you want isn't "cheating" or "copping out," it's just economical. I'm sure there are plenty of painters that would advise against leaving bare primer for any number of reasons (some technical, some aesthetic), but if you save yourself time and effort and are happy with the look, keep doing what you're doing. If you want to broaden your skill set, win competitions, impress other painters, etc. then it's a habit you should probably get out of.

Groovy yeah, I don't plan to ever get THAT good (I have too many other interests/obligations to make my self insane in the likes of Golden Demon) I just like getting them up to tabletop standard Speaking of, I've heard good things about Testors Dullcote. What do you use for sealing/finishing them?

 jreilly89 wrote:

Groovy yeah, I don't plan to ever get THAT good (I have too many other interests/obligations to make my self insane in the likes of Golden Demon) I just like getting them up to tabletop standard Speaking of, I've heard good things about Testors Dullcote. What do you use for sealing/finishing them?

Testors Dullcote is great. Mr. Hobby (much harder to find) makes an super matte and a semi-matte that are also fantastic. Vallejo Matte and Satin finishes are quite nice if you have an airbrush, too.

In terms of using spray paint as a matte basecoat... whatever works for you, man Citadel actually makes basecoat sprays that are acrylic and color matched to their paints (like a Mephiston Red Spray or a Zandri Dust Spray). There are other acrylic sprays too, like Liquitex.

In any case, I would try it on a cheap model first, and test it for loss of detail and adhesion of washes and the next coat. I mean, you don't want your whole model just the spray color, presumably, and it won't be helpful if a wash runs too much or pools, or your next layers won't go on evenly without several coats. I would also let it fully cure (not just dried, but cured -- give it a few days) and then check for chip resistance. Lightly scratch at a section with a fingernail, and then keep scratching harder until it comes off. It should take a some effort to scrape off once it's fully cured.

Krylon sprays are fine for use as Primer and basecoat. I use their camo line extensively when I have projects whose basecoat is in one of those colors. It's no different from using an "Army Painter" colored primer.

The entire army in this gallery was bascoat/primed with Krylon Camo spray.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-24779-20144_Ventauran%20Army.html

The issue of whether to varnish is a separate issue entirely. Varnish is a protectant that I always recommend. If you really like the matte or flat finish, then dullocote is a good choice, or you can go with a brush-on acrylic matte varnish from an arts store. I've been doing alot more with the brush on-as it's quite affordable, can be used indoors and seems less prone to getting shiny.

I love my black as a primer / base to start, I rarely use grey or white.
I find ensuring complete coverage still needs a couple coats with the can or going over with brush/airbrush.
I found that something like "Payne's gray" I prefer because it is not quite black.
As soon as you are at a matt black, you cannot shade darker so models lose some depth or you have to add a lighter wash to raised areas.

Krylon also has excellent sealants.
Use the "shiny' / hard clear varnish first then a quick spray of "Matt varnish" = I found matt sealants wear easier so the prior coat extends life and you still reduce the glare with the matt.

 jreilly89 wrote:
What do you use for sealing/finishing them?

If you search a little, there are tons of threads about Dullcote, specifically, as well as plenty mentions of it in more general "favorite varnish" type threads. Many, myself included, love it for its finer qualities - it's stronger than most acrylic matte varnishes (it's a lacquer), gives a very flat finish, and does so quite consistently. Its detractors generally have two issues: First, they claim it's particularly prone to frosting. That's user error. Second, that it's the "death of metallics." This one actually may have some credence - Dullcote does significantly decrease the shine of metallic paints. I don't generally like super-shiny metals, so the subtle sheen it leaves (still distinguishable from flat, non-metallic paints) I would consider a plus. Really depends on your tastes and/or motivation, as you can always selectively reapply gloss by hand. If I want a predominantly shiny model, I obviously don't break out the Dullcote!

Like many others, I also use the gloss varnish undercoats before my final matte layer. The general consensus is that gloss is stronger than matte. Personally, I think the differences are negligible, at least for our purposes (especially since I'm pretty gentle with my models). I'd trust three layers of Dullcote as easily as one over two layers of acrylic gloss. The reason I do it is simple - acrylic gloss is cheap and varies comparatively little between brands. One company's matte is anothers satin is anothers ultra-matte, but "clear and shiny" means clear and shiny. Since the top layer determines the final look, I use any old acrylic gloss to do the heavy lifting, in terms of ultimate protection of the paintjob, using a spritz of the somewhat more expensive (not terribly so, when you pick it up in craft stores that regularly have 40% and occasionally 50% off coupons) Dullcote to guarantee the look I'm after. I believe I settled on Krylon's Crystal Clear, for aerosols, but have largely shifted to airbrushing on Pledge FloorCare (a replacement for/alternative to the old Future floor polish of modeling legend), which is even cheaper and more generally useful, as it can also serve as a thinner, DIY wash medium adjunct, clear part restorer/sealant, etc.

Awesome. Well, after nearly running out of green and black primer, I know what else is on my shopping list to buy