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So my LGG is starting up an escalation league in a couple weeks and the most threatening player for the lower point games is a Tyranid one who'll be running two flyrants. We'll be starting off at 750 and he'll be fielding the two along with two shooty-fexs and a zoanthrope. Player Space Marines, specifically the Raptors chapter tactics, how would one deal with these highly mobile guns?

sorry, what are the Raptors' Chapter Tactics?

sorry again, how about those skyfire-able Contemptors?

Skyfire Contemptors? that's possible?

Raptors get the Raven Guard scout move and Heavy 1, Rending on Boltguns/Bolt Pistols/Combi-Weapon Bolters if the unit didn't move.

I'm not certain, as I don't have much to do with FW. but I heard that there is a Mortis loadout, meaning the same weapon on both arms, that allows an optional Skyfire as well.

On the other hand, have you considered a Firestorm Redoubt? access to three skyfire weapons as well as the other buffs and defensive stuff you can buy is a good 'swiss army knife' with this structure.

 KathiasBlack wrote:
Skyfire Contemptors? that's possible?

Yeah, the Contemptor Mortis can skyfire. You're using forgeworld chapter tactics, so you might as well take advantage of some of the forgeworld anti-air units that SM have access to. I would suggest using the Mark V Mortis Pattern Dreadnought with the default missile launcher loadout - it will let you effectively engage both the flyrant and the carnifexes.

This is actually a rare case where a Devastator squad with flakk missiles might make sense. S8 AP3 with skyfire is very threatening to the flyrant - if nothing else, you'll force grounding tests almost every turn.

Mortis Dreadnought for sure, also try out the Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun. Pretty great for only 100 points

There are 2 skyfire dreadnoughts. They gain skyfire and interceptor if they have stayed still in their movement phase.

You have the basic mortis, which is a standard dread +5 points. Usually seen ith either 2 TL-AC, or 2 TL-LC.

Then there is the mortis contemptor. Has access to some awesome assault cannons, and can take a CML on top. Cost a lot of points though.

If you are using FW then a fireraptor would be awesome, and quite resistant to any return fire (AV12 4HP flyer).
19 TL shots a turn, some of them AP3, plus missiles. By far the best SM flyer imo.

S8 AP3 with skyfire is very threatening to the flyrant

Flakk missiles are not str8 or ap3.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 KathiasBlack wrote:
Skyfire Contemptors? that's possible?

This is actually a rare case where a Devastator squad with flakk missiles might make sense. S8 AP3 with skyfire is very threatening to the flyrant - if nothing else, you'll force grounding tests almost every turn.

Flakk are S7 AP4

I agree though, a contempter mortis would suit you well. Also, an aegis line never hurts.

The quad gun line may be the most easy to achieve and fit into my 750 list. We're jumping up to 1000 in the 2nd round of the escalation so it shouldn't be as big a deal. Two nasty flyers like that are fairly hard to deal with at 750 I feel though.

Would it be viable to just try and ignore them as well? go for objectives and just try to be him point wise?

Another question, mainly for a buddy of mine who'll also have trouble to deal with it: How would an Ork player deal with the same situation? he can handle the Fex's fine but the flyrants seem beyond his reach a little.

Flyrants are pretty hard to ignore, especially in the TL Devourer flavor. ADL will at least force him to jink, and wound him relatively easily

ADL is your best bet. Not sure what the Moris will run you, but at 750 it may take away from whatever other TAC units you have. ADL would be my recommendation. Remember, it has Interceptor, so it can shoot them as they come in. Also, they are too tough to ignore, especially when they can roll Psychic powers too

A single ADL will take slightly more than 5 turns to take down a flyrant, if we ignore fall down damage. If we include it, then a single ADL will take 3-4 turns to take down a single flyrant. I'm sure by this time that the unit manning the gun will have been wiped out.

An ADL is really a sub par option for taking out flyrants. It won't even force the things to jink.

well if an ADL is 100 points, I could possibly go the extra mile and find 10 more points, and include a Stormtalon. Would that be a good option?

I think you definitely want to try to get a Mortis Contemptor in there. Unlike a lot of the options, he will be hugely useful against non-flyer lists. AV 13 5++ packing 12 S6 Rending and 2 S8 AP3, yes please!

Try:

Lias Issodon - 175

10x Tacticals, Melta, Multi-Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta-Bomb - 175
10x Tacticals, Melta, Multi-Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta-Bomb - 175

Contemptor Mortis, 2x Kheres Assault Cannons, Cylone Launcher - 215

740 Points so 10 to play with.

Issodon can infiltrate all 3 units (I think I'm wrong and he can't infiltrate vehicles). The Contemptor gains Skyfire when standing still and the tacs get rending so infiltrating on to objectives/closer to the enemy and then holding tight and blasting them will be great.

If he's running two Dakkafexes and a Zoanthrope alongside the shooty Fyrants, call him out - that's over 750 points.

He's going to have to neglect the Devourers on the Flyrants or Carnifexes if he wants to field anarmy within the points limit, so you can focus down on the shooty models first and worry about the CC big bugs later.

chmcclellan wrote:
I think you definitely want to try to get a Mortis Contemptor in there. Unlike a lot of the options, he will be hugely useful against non-flyer lists. AV 13 5++ packing 12 S6 Rending and 2 S8 AP3, yes please!

Try:

Lias Issodon - 175

10x Tacticals, Melta, Multi-Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta-Bomb - 175
10x Tacticals, Melta, Multi-Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta-Bomb - 175

Contemptor Mortis, 2x Kheres Assault Cannons, Cylone Launcher - 215

740 Points so 10 to play with.

Issodon can infiltrate all 3 units (I think I'm wrong and he can't infiltrate vehicles). The Contemptor gains Skyfire when standing still and the tacs get rending so infiltrating on to objectives/closer to the enemy and then holding tight and blasting them will be great.

Yeah I'm definitely gonna do the contemptor after that example haha! So with what you've displayed here, I guess the idea is to just alpha stike turn 1 a unit with the MM and all the rending boltguns? With all that fire power may just kill the the flyrants before they even take to the air!

Frozocrone wrote:
If he's running two Dakkafexes and a Zoanthrope alongside the shooty Fyrants, call him out - that's over 750 points.

He's going to have to neglect the Devourers on the Flyrants or Carnifexes if he wants to field anarmy within the points limit, so you can focus down on the shooty models first and worry about the CC big bugs later.

Came here to post this. Beaten, mercilessly. :(

That list you described is likely 810 points (without troops). Demand a list. Get the Inquisition involved, if possible.

SBG wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:
If he's running two Dakkafexes and a Zoanthrope alongside the shooty Fyrants, call him out - that's over 750 points.

He's going to have to neglect the Devourers on the Flyrants or Carnifexes if he wants to field anarmy within the points limit, so you can focus down on the shooty models first and worry about the CC big bugs later.

Came here to post this. Beaten, mercilessly. :(

That list you described is likely 810 points (without troops). Demand a list. Get the Inquisition involved, if possible.

Yeah him and I are gonna have words. I didn't realize it was this bad. He's also running like 30x gaunts so he's wayyyy over 750

As the others have said, it isn't possible to bring all of those units at 750 points, though a combination thereof could happen (most likely 2x Tyrants + 1x Carnifex and Zoanthrope).

At such a low point value, your easiest counter is probably just going to be combat squad any units that have the ability to and just outlast them. The Tyrants can at best kill one unit a turn outside of any psychic power shenanigans (Warp Blast or Psychic Scream), so just split up to reduce their efficiency and focus all your ground firepower on whatever is on the ground. Also the Tyrants have to land eventually in order to score objectives, at which point they can basically be dropped like any other T6 4 wound monster.

230+230+50+300+120

 KathiasBlack wrote:

SBG wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:
If he's running two Dakkafexes and a Zoanthrope alongside the shooty Fyrants, call him out - that's over 750 points.

He's going to have to neglect the Devourers on the Flyrants or Carnifexes if he wants to field anarmy within the points limit, so you can focus down on the shooty models first and worry about the CC big bugs later.

Came here to post this. Beaten, mercilessly. :(

That list you described is likely 810 points (without troops). Demand a list. Get the Inquisition involved, if possible.

Yeah him and I are gonna have words. I didn't realize it was this bad. He's also running like 30x gaunts so he's wayyyy over 750

Ooh I thought the list was going to be unbound, yeah that makes things considerably worse. Certainly possible to have two Flyrants in a Battle-forged list with optial loadout, but you would have to forgo Carnifexen.

There was a guy at my LGC before I moved who ran Raptors, I think for 750 he ran scouts, three Tacticals with different weapons for different unit types, bikes with a grav gun, landspeeder, conscripter dreadnought (however it's spelt) and a Stormtalon IIRC. Granted he is an amazing tactician and opponent but I think you could take some ideas from him.