Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I suppose this is begging for biased replies but is this game growing signficantly in popularity?

2~3 people at my LGS are playing it and it kinda of looked a bit interesting and it is more or less cheap enough that it piqued my curiosity
however as someone who has also bought into a lot of dead or dying games, I am a little more apprehensive about it.

At the moment I am focused on Warmachine / Hordes, and Infinity exploded like wild fire in my area. However Malifaux seems to have the same moderately small fire that Hell Dorado had before it died out...

So some quick questions, I noticed that each faction only has a rather narrow amount of options. Those options also tend to also be heavily polarized. Like clearly designed to be used a specific caster. I understand it is not strictly restricted, but how much weaker are these options for the casters they are not designed for?

Also, how often are the releases for the game? I understand that Gencon introduced a ton of new boxes, but as I investigated further... It seems like they are actually just re-releasing existing models in plastic. Are new releases that rare?

Final question, how is the balance? Does any faction or leader stand out as clearly stronger or clearly weaker than other options?
I fully understand the whole, "everyone can win" and "its the player not the list", but seriously...

In my area it is growing slowly. I have only recently started, but it seems to me they are releasing plastics for all their models as the update to 2nd edition. (Which is around 1 year old).

From my experience so far (I am fairly new) the game seems to be pretty balanced. Part of that is due to the fact that you build your crew (list) after finding out your opponents faction, and the mission (strategy) and secondary missions (schemes). So you can build your crew to suit the missions you will be trying to play.

As for polarized models....that is sort of true. It is less that some models are only good with specific casters(masters), but rather they work differently with different masters. There are some models that seem to be specific to certain masters, but a majority of models have some synergies elsewhere.

 Talamare wrote:

So some quick questions, I noticed that each faction only has a rather narrow amount of options. Those options also tend to also be heavily polarized. Like clearly designed to be used a specific caster. I understand it is not strictly restricted, but how much weaker are these options for the casters they are not designed for?

There are seven options in each faction for a master. Some of those masters are dual faction. Every master can take every model. True some minions synergize better with with certain masters, most Masters will find value in models for different reasons. For instance, Flesh Constructs (think Frankenstein's Monster) work best with McMourning, as McMourning is a poison based master, and poison heals Flesh Constructs. Kirai (spirit summoning revenge obsessed Master) uses them as cheap disposable units to summon her creations off of (she uses wounds as a resource, and FC have a ton of them). Nicodem finds them useful as a tarpit summons, due to their high wound count and cheap summoning cost... And so on. The Master chosen switches how the model works.

 Talamare wrote:

Also, how often are the releases for the game? I understand that Gencon introduced a ton of new boxes, but as I investigated further... It seems like they are actually just re-releasing existing models in plastic. Are new releases that rare?

They are about once a month*. And yes, most of the models are re-releases of their old models. They made the decision to put all their cards on plastic, and no longer make metal models. It's a long term strategy, which I applaud them for, though it can make it difficult to find that model you want to play with. Most of the community, however, is glad to proxy those items not yet released.

*There have been delays, something that happens when one has chosen to reset their entire line. The products -when done- are amazing. Its just that it takes time to get right.

 Talamare wrote:

Final question, how is the balance? Does any faction or leader stand out as clearly stronger or clearly weaker than other options?
I fully understand the whole, "everyone can win" and "its the player not the list", but seriously...

The balance is, quite frankly, amazing. This, more than anything else, makes me want to play this game the three times a week I play it. Net listing is minimized, as Factions, Deployment, and Strategies/Schemes (Main objective/side objectives) are determined first, then you build your list. There is no real surprise gotcha list. There's you, knowing your opponent's faction and then building off of their weaknesses/strengths, etc.

You really can't netlist that.

In my area Malifaux is growing slowly. We had a burst of new players (including myself) over the summer and sometimes we out number Warmachine & Hordes.

Malifaux is kind of like WarmaHordes in the respect the you've got models usable by an entire faction (and mercenaries usable by everyone), but the decision of which master to use changes the way your entire force works from game to game. I've only ever played 2ed, but I've heard from the older players that 2ed is more balanced than the prior editions.

 Talamare wrote:

, I noticed that each faction only has a rather narrow amount of options. Those options also tend to also be heavily polarized. Like clearly designed to be used a specific caster. I understand it is not strictly restricted, but how much weaker are these options for the casters they are not designed for?

I really don't see the narrow amount of options. The range as around 330 different models (and by models I don't mean sculpts, I mean unit types with their own rules) and each faction has access to around 50-60 of these models, not considering mercenaries or masters with special hiring allowances like Marcus or Leveticus.

 Talamare wrote:

Final question, how is the balance? Does any faction or leader stand out as clearly stronger or clearly weaker than other options?
I fully understand the whole, "everyone can win" and "its the player not the list", but seriously...

The balance is really good, that said there are some bad match ups. Kirai running a incorporeal heavy crew is going to have a rough time against Sonnia, Wong, or Rasputina (Incorporeal models take half damage from shooting and melee, the listed masters dish out heavy magic damage). There are always ways to mitigate these in how you build your lists though. Speaking of list building, "its the player not the list" is not a phase that you can really associate with Malifaux. List building is a huge part of the game, but it is not about building The List, its about building a list for the task at hand. As mentioned above, Deployment and Strategies/Schemes are determined first, then you build your list. Knowing what to put in your list to accomplish the task at hand is easily 25-50% of being successful in the game.

Now, going back to balance, another balance point to make is that balance within factions is also very good. There really aren't too many "trap" models, models that are complete rubbish that you would have a hard time ever seeing why you would want them in your list. There definitely plenty of situational models, models that you would only used for certain strategies or schemes, but with Malifaux's lists being ad hoc, situational models are not the issue that they are in other games.

Well it certainly has a better system than Hell Dorado.

I have talked to two people in person outside of Gencon who play Malifaux. 40k is king where I live, and I've tried for a few years to get WM/H to catch on.

I dig the rules. I love the models. The company is rad. They can have my money.

Also, I still pick up and read my Confrontation rulebook regularly, and MORDHEIM is picking up speed again around here. Dead games? Pshhh...

It was growing quite steadily at my FLGS, just behind Warmachine.

 Talamare wrote:
So some quick questions, I noticed that each faction only has a rather narrow amount of options. Those options also tend to also be heavily polarized. Like clearly designed to be used a specific caster. I understand it is not strictly restricted, but how much weaker are these options for the casters they are not designed for?

As said, any unit in the faction can be used with any master from the faction, and duel faction masters have rules that allow them to bring in units from outside their primary faction.

In a recent game, I played a 50ss game against my brothers 10 Thunders. I saw he brought Izamu, and I didn't have a heavy hitter in my list. So I brought Teddy. I could have brought a Mature Nephilim, which would have synergised better with my Nephilim list. Being able to throw 'dead' units around for Young Nephilim to kill and heal themselves on would have been helpful.

But I just bought a Teddy, and Teddy is one of my favorite miniatures ever. So I brought Teddy along instead. He's got no synergy with Nephilim. but he's big and tough and dishes out hurt, which is what I needed anyway. He and Izamu had a titanic fight, with Teddy eventually pushing Izamu into Pounce range of a Terror Tot which got the final point of damage in.

Another good Neverborn example are Insidious Madness. They work well both with the Dreamer (because they're nightmares and their abilities work well there - synergy) but also with Pandora, whose primary threat works on Willpower tests. They have a ranged ability that drops Willpower, making her abilities better on affected targets.

As said, you chose your list after you know the objectives and deployment of the game, so while you might see something that synergises well in a straight up fight, you might not be playing a straight up fight and want something that doesn't synergise as well, but will accomplish the objective still.

I won't lie, I am a bit of an impulse buyer!

I am really anxious to pick up a box of Lucien, tho it doesn't seem like they have released it yet after Gencon.

I read a ton about him, and tho it seems that most people tend to put him towards the weaker end due to his lack of personal power. I am a huge fan of manipulation play~!

I will probably pick him up when his Plastic version is released and maybe a box of Nephilim to start

Pandora is good for manipulation play. She's all about controlling the opponents activation order and punishing them for it, as well as making enemy models kill themselves through fear and being controlled.

I know what you mean by impulse buying. I wasn't going to let Malifaux become yet another backlog. I was going to buy the Lilith crew, the Nephilim pack, and get them painted before buying anything else.

Now I have the Pandora and Dreamer crews, Teddy and Miss Ery, metal Stitched Togethers and Iggy, and the Nightmare Whiskey Golem sitting around.

 Talamare wrote:
I won't lie, I am a bit of an impulse buyer!

I am really anxious to pick up a box of Lucien, tho it doesn't seem like they have released it yet after Gencon.

I read a ton about him, and tho it seems that most people tend to put him towards the weaker end due to his lack of personal power. I am a huge fan of manipulation play~!

I will probably pick him up when his Plastic version is released and maybe a box of Nephilim to start

I think people put him toward the weaker end because they haven't tried him as Neverborn, and he's relatively newish. People forget that the Illuminated are very solid minions, and minions that he can manipulate. He's great at scheme marker manipulation, and killing him is difficult at best. Like all good villains, he can easily have someone take his place.

Lucius strikes me as one of the masters that is more difficult to play. He is not weak, but he is less straight forward than many masters, so when you first play him it is hard to get him right. Plus playing minion heavy generally leads to squishier crews.

Breng77 wrote:
Lucius strikes me as one of the masters that is more difficult to play. He is not weak, but he is less straight forward than many masters, so when you first play him it is hard to get him right. Plus playing minion heavy generally leads to squishier crews.

Squishy crews probably wouldn't be the case with Lucius as Neverborn. If he's taking Illuminated then he'll probably be taken 2 or 3 Depleted. 4SS for 8 wounds and (I believe) Hard to Kill. Those tanks aren't even worth attacking.

8 wounds really depends on the DF and Wp how hard that is to go through, and Illuminated are also tough, but if he is also taking Beckoners, and Guardsman, and some schemey stuff. They don't tank all that well. I suppose you could build a tanking crew fro Lucius, but that strikes me as giving up some of his utility.

We started playing a few weeks ago and it's pretty much consumed our Thursday night gaming. The hardest part is finding enough time to play more.

I'm really enjoying my Guild crews: Perdita, Lady J and Sonnia. Eventually I want to branch into Lucius, my favorite Master, and Neverborn.

Breng77 wrote:8 wounds really depends on the DF and Wp how hard that is to go through, and Illuminated are also tough, but if he is also taking Beckoners, and Guardsman, and some schemey stuff. They don't tank all that well. I suppose you could build a tanking crew fro Lucius, but that strikes me as giving up some of his utility.

Depleted have 8 wounds, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill for 4SS. You're going to spend a mandatory 2 AP to kill one, but it will be realistically 3 or more. That's a great tarpit piece.

Chumbalaya wrote:We started playing a few weeks ago and it's pretty much consumed our Thursday night gaming. The hardest part is finding enough time to play more.

I'm really enjoying my Guild crews: Perdita, Lady J and Sonnia. Eventually I want to branch into Lucius, my favorite Master, and Neverborn.

I've got Justice, and I'm almost finished with Sonnia with McCabe on deck after that. Probably the most painting I've done in years. Very fun game, my store has a Thursday night venue and Sundays. Makes for some great play.

It does sound like a great tarpit, but I assume it has some downsides at only 4 SS. At 8 wounds short of a decapitate trigger or flipping a Red Joker/having severe 7. It will take 3 AP. The question then becomes how good is it at preventing disengaging strikes. As if I can just walk away I don't need to kill it.

I managed to find the stats for both those guys, Depleted and Illuminated~

I'm just wondering why I would even bother with Depleted? I understand they are J. Lynch theme and fit really well in his list. Tho it just seems better to spend 3 more points for the Illuminated. Especially since I would already be spending a bunch of my points on Guild Shooting.

Illuminated seem just as hard, if not harder to kill
Armor, Regen 1, Self Heal and Lawyers can easily give them Hard to wound as well.

The difference between their fighting capability for only 3pts is absolutely insane too. Illuminated hit like 3x harder than Depleted do!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Depleted is a bad model. Looking at his stats, I can definitely see he is a godly tarpit and synergize well if your army is really going for the whole Brilliance stacking. Just with Lucius being able to take some crazy high damage shooting from Guild, it just seems like a better way to spend the points

Because getting out-activated is often really rough, and 2 depleted are only a point more than one illuminated (the other way to look at that difference in price).

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Because getting out-activated is often really rough, and 2 depleted are only a point more than one illuminated (the other way to look at that difference in price).

Ooh that's fair

I figure I will buy Lucius starter and Lynch starter for Illuminated

Which will likely put me at ~8 models
Lucius
4 Guilds
3 Illuminated

About how many models should I expect on the other end? Is 8 low? average? high?
I doubt its high, but then again... The guild models are really cheap~

Sure, I don't have any sort of set rule, but tend towards an average of maybe one model (not counting the leader) per 6 points or so.

Your list looks very durable, but doesn't have a lot of punch. Particularly when feeling out a new crew, I'll try to get one heavyweight and no more than two of any model that costs more than 5 points... I've never felt spamming has much of a place in most crews (though there are exceptions)

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Sure, I don't have any sort of set rule, but tend towards an average of maybe one model (not counting the leader) per 6 points or so.

Your list looks very durable, but doesn't have a lot of punch. Particularly when feeling out a new crew, I'll try to get one heavyweight and no more than two of any model that costs more than 5 points... I've never felt spamming has much of a place in most crews (though there are exceptions)

I tend to build my crews the same way (Master, Heavy, no more than 2x of any one model). Although in Malifaux, if you really get into it, you'll find yourself building your crews around the Strats and Schemes that got flipped as well as the faction your opponent declared and the models you think he'd play. But that sort of play only happens when you start picking up more models (or proxying).

@Spiralingcadaver -I think in Talamre's list when he cites (4 Guild), that he meant four assorted Guild pieces, not four of the same.

Yeah, definitely agree on building to the objective/faction, though once I get used to a Master, I tend towards a core set of 3-5 models or so that I'll start with, since you'll always need some fight and some bodies.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. In that case, that sounds reasonable, regarding the 4 guild.