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2014/10/03 12:16:46
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
Basically:
Full unit of tank bustaz in a BW plus a grot squad (with deepstrike on a 5+) vs 7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 3 squigs, 11xboyz in a trukk (nob+fist) +1x traktor cannon +1x lobba
FaarisShazad wrote:The guy with the spiky dildo for a picture had a good point.
Ork Management Program
I take care of problems that need to be solved with violence
2014/10/03 13:20:59
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
I'm sorry to say that I think you've misread your codex. You can't take both a Finking Kap and a Licky Stikk in the same FoC. Only one per FoC... they're rare relics.
What loadouts do you have for your trukks? Rams are manitory and, if assulting units, then Boarding Planks are musts
sn0zcumb3r wrote: Great Waaagh Detachment: Big Mek Biker Megaforcefield, Powerclaw, Big Bosspole
I'm not sure if you can stack these? I, unfortunately, dont' have my codex with me. But a Big Mek Biker will be the primary target with all that on him. He isn't fantastic in CC and with all you've given him, you'd want him out of CC. Especially since the Mega KFF only works against shooting...
As Gazzy's Mob Rule is more damaging than the standard FoC's Mob Rule, make sure you fill this section out with either models which can take the hits (Meganobs) or don't have the Mob Rule (like your Big Gunz).
Don't the rules say that you can only use the deep strike if Gazzy's FoC is your main one? Doesn't that mean you'll lose out on Objective Secured?
You're lists are very similar. If your deep stiking, I'm not sur how effective trukks and battlewagons are going to be. You typically want to deep strike stuff which struggles to get into CC, but if your already riding on wheels, what's the point?
Automatically Appended Next Post: As you have so many Tankbusters, I would say running either squads of 5 with 3 squigs each in trukks, or go with a Rokkit Wagon:
-- 15 Tankbusters + 3 Squigs
-- Mek + Rokkit
-- Painboy + Bosspole
-- Battlewagon + Ram + 4 Rokkits + Kannon.
= 20 Rokkits shots and a Kannon are brilliantly fun.
Trukks explode and since Tankbusters only have + saves, D4 strength 4 hits are painful. Battlewagons don't explode as much and are normally wrecked, which is much more appealling.
Did I count that right? Do you have 20 Tankbusters? Why not a Rokkitwagon and a 5 man RokkitTrukk?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/03 13:27:59
2014/10/03 13:48:39
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
For Relics:
The codex relics are one per model and no duplicates. You can have more than one in your list.
Orkimedes Custom gubbinz are just no duplicates. You can have two or more per model.
The only unit that would ever deep strike is the Gretchins if they got it and possibly a Battlewagon with tankbustaz on a rare occassion. Yes the troops from Waaagh Ghaz don't have objective secured ,no it doesn't have to be primary for Telyporta strike.
In the first list I have 2x 7 Tankbustaz with 3 bomb squigs each in Trukks.
In the second one I have a Rokkit wagon as you describe (without the painboy cause of slot restrictions) plus a unit of 6 with 3 bomb squigs in a Trukk
That's my main question really super unit of Tank bustaz in a BW or 7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 3 squigs, 11xboyz in a trukk (nob+fist) +1x traktor cannon +1x lobba
(or are both lists gak?)
FaarisShazad wrote:The guy with the spiky dildo for a picture had a good point.
Ork Management Program
I take care of problems that need to be solved with violence
2014/10/03 15:42:32
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
I mean it's ork shooting so I have to say if you're looking to shoot you're looking at the wrong army. I know that's a tons of s8 rockits but at bs2 or bs3 just not very appealing. Even when in a battlewagon or truck it's a lot of points for something that other armies can do better for cheaper.
When it comes to orks I tend to favor the "blitz brigade" formation letting you scout move your battlewagon a for an all but guaranteed turn 2 assualt, letting orks get in there and do what they do best, krump heads.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you want to make an ork shooting list by all means to for it, these are just my opinions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/03 15:43:10
2014/10/03 21:14:29
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
I like the second list better on the virtue of having less boyz in the ghazzie detachment. I second the Blitz Brigade vote. It's AMAZING. Sure its a ton of points, but really, an optimal battlewagon build is only 120 points (ram + rokkit thats it), so five of em only stacks up to 600 points. Then you have 1250 points to spend on tankbustas, boyz, and meganobz to fill said wagons.
2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L
2014/10/04 07:22:02
Subject: Re:[1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
Firstly, are these the only models avaliable? Or can you take, say, extra bikers or more boyz or stuff like that.
As for the general stuff, it's all fine and i see this lists being effective. But here are some suggestions:
- Take meks. For just 9 pts over a boy you get a very important mechanism to ward your pk indeps from challenges. And possibility to fix 1 HP or weapon destroyed.
- If you take MFF bigmek, put him on a bike so that he'll cover bikers and nearby vehicles. He's quite expensive though, so if you're using him explictly as a ward for bikes, you're better off with just more bikers, if you're using him explictly as a 4++ for a wagon, you're better off with an extra truckboy squad. So, to make him worthy, you got to get that 4++ for everything around.
- 2 trakktors are probably not worth it when you allready have tankbustas. Besides, the enemy will focus them down if he has valuable flyers anywayz. I think, you're better off with just more lobbas or KMK. Besides, not all enemies will have flyers or skimmers. It's really meta-depending though and up to you to decide.
- Boarding planks on wagonz are great and worth the points.
- 'eavy armor on truckboyz is also good - not mandatory, though. But my own truckboyz are alwayz wearing 'eavy armor. That's a matter of preference ofc.
- Bomb squigs for 15 tankbustas are probably a waste of points. Squigs have less range and you must be very careful with wagon's sides. Besides, 15 tank-hunter shots are allready enough most of the time. And squigs don't often have targets. Don't get me wrong, squigs are situationally good, but not mandatory.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/04 07:22:52
2014/10/04 09:58:34
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
Instead of Great Waghh detachment you can take units from Ghazzy supplement as standard CAD. U won't have this useless rules and you will have access to Gubinz
2014/10/04 12:48:01
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
sn0zcumb3r wrote: For Relics:
The codex relics are one per model and no duplicates. You can have more than one in your list.
Orkimedes Custom gubbinz are just no duplicates. You can have two or more per model.
Page 53: Orks Wargear List -- "Gifts of Gork and Mork. Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army."
Sorry mate. You gotta re-work your list.
2014/10/04 18:15:55
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
sn0zcumb3r wrote: For Relics:
The codex relics are one per model and no duplicates. You can have more than one in your list.
Orkimedes Custom gubbinz are just no duplicates. You can have two or more per model.
Page 53: Orks Wargear List -- "Gifts of Gork and Mork. Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army."
Sorry mate. You gotta re-work your list.
You 're British, I'm Greek but surely Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army means only one of each.. So only one finking kap, one lucky stix etc..
It doesn't say Only one of the following...
2014/10/05 00:58:13
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
sn0zcumb3r wrote: For Relics:
The codex relics are one per model and no duplicates. You can have more than one in your list.
Orkimedes Custom gubbinz are just no duplicates. You can have two or more per model.
Page 53: Orks Wargear List -- "Gifts of Gork and Mork. Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army."
Sorry mate. You gotta re-work your list.
Meaning each item is unique in the army and may not be duplicated, not that they somehow preclude any other item from the list.
2014/10/05 01:01:19
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
Mr.T wrote: Instead of Great Waghh detachment you can take units from Ghazzy supplement as standard CAD. U won't have this useless rules and you will have access to Gubinz
Re-read the part in the Ghazzie supplement on the start of page 48. All the Ghazzie supplement rules, including relics and warlord traits, can only be taken on models selected as part of a Ghazzie Formation or from the Great Waaagh detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/05 01:01:34
2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L
2014/10/06 08:23:29
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
To get it out of the way, sn0zcumb3er has most of the rules correct. One relic per codex HQ and Orkimede's gubbinz are only available in a great Waaagh! detachment. I also assume that his trukks already have rams factored in, since a trukk is 30, not 35. The only tiny error is a MA Stikk Boss costing 125 (60+40+25).
sn0zcumb3r wrote: Here are two variations of the same list. Which one is better and would you change anything?
Spoiler:
CAD Bikerboss PK, Finking Kap 125 Megaboss Lucky Stix 120
3x Traktor Cannons 3x Ammo Runtz 4x Lobbaz 3x Ammo Runtz
Great Waaagh Detachment Big Mek Biker Megaforcefield, Powerclaw, Big Bosspole Painboy Biker
7x Tankbustaz 3xBombsquig 106 Trukk 35
11x Boyz 1x Nob Shoota, PK, 107 Trukk 35
10x Gretchin, 1x Runtherd 35
Battlewagon Ram, Rokkit 120
- I like the idea of having both of our best relics in a single list and since you're actually have a place to put your biker warboss, I can see it working. You should still consider whether the warlord trait you gain from the Finking Kap is actually more valuable than giving FNP to a unit of your choice. - Take a mek for your MA Stikk Boss. It'll save his life when he meets someone with AP2 attacks. Trading a mek and some boyz for a daemon prince is the kind of thing that wins games. - Personally, I'm not a big fan of those tankbusta missiles. Bombsquigs hit on a 2+ alright, but variance still has you miss one of those a lot of times, and seven rokkits averaging to two hits most of the time aren't usually enough to shift anything after the squigs are gone. All you can really do with 7 is melta-bomb something and lose them to the vehicle exploding/MC retaliating. They are too expensive for that IMO. - I wouldn't put a PK on the MFF/BBP mek. He's not someone you want to fight in combats and he's got a huge bullseye painted on him. The chances of actually putting those 25 points to use are rather slim. Better give it to the biker nob to spread your threats. - From what I can tell you're planning to create a wrecking ball out of the warboss, those bikers and two HQs from W!G to create something similar to the old nob biker star. The whole unit is about 500 points and is just 15 wounds which are fairly resilient against shooting, but have to rely on 4+/FNP in combat. If any sort of close combat expert, or worse, a knight, catches you, you'll lose a lot of points. Instead on spending hundreds of point to make the unit more survivable, I'd just max out the bikers and attach a pain boy. You'll have a unit with a similar effect and better shooting for a lot less points. You can still attach a warboss here, if you want without becoming a lot more expensive than your original unit. You are also no longer required to branch into W!G and can save yourself the gretchin-tax if you're comfortable with just two HQs. Not a thing you need to do, but an option. - I prefer more crew over ammo runts, but that's a matter of personal taste.
Basically: Full unit of tank bustaz in a BW plus a grot squad (with deepstrike on a 5+) vs 7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 3 squigs, 11xboyz in a trukk (nob+fist) +1x traktor cannon +1x lobba
- Most things as above, while having two warbosses is nice, a pain boy might be better than that additional warlord trait. Also mek for the MA Stikk Boss. - As above, I'd eliminate the relic big mek and get more warbikers instead - he costs as much as 10 bikers, he's never going to save that much with just a KFF and fearless. - I think that the blitz-brigade is too expensive for what you're trying to do, I'd still get at least a third battlewagon just for target saturation. Your average enemy army can usually stop one battlewagon, armies with good anti-tank (tau, certain marine builds) can reliably stop two though, which would leave you with zero. I'd just drop the second unit of tankbustas and their trukk, in my experience a big unit of tankbustas in a battlewagon is plenty anti-tank. The brigade has the issue of taking up a lot of points and you needing to own five wagons in the first place, so it's far from the no-brainer many people make it out to be. - In total, I think the second list is the better one, due to having more resilient threats, rather than a bunch of threat which are easily removed.
If I got your intentions right, I think that you're trying to run a list which has a bunch of transported orks, a solid bike unit, tank bustaz for anti-tank and some mek gunz. My suggestion for a list that looks like that would be this:
Spoiler:
CAD Warboss, MA, Stikk (1) Mek (1)
15 Tankbustas, Nob, BP (2) 3 MANz, BP, Trukk, Ram
17 Boyz, Nob, Shoota, BC, BP (1) 20 Shoota Boyz, Nob, Shoota, PK, BP (3)
15 Warbikers, Nob, PK, BP (4)
3 Lobbas, 1 ammo runt 2 Traktor kannons, 2 ammo runts, 2 crew * 1 Battlewagon, Ram, Boarding Plank ** (1)
CAD Painboy, Bike (4)
12 Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, Trukk, Ram 10 Gretchin
1 Battlewagon, Ram (2) 1 Battlewagon, Ram (3)
The numbers in brackets indicate what goes where. In total, you get three battlewagon, two trukks, big unit of bikers with FNP, your two units of mek gunz as fire support and anti-air, and a unit of gretchin for comedy and/or objective grabbing. The battlewagons are roughly equal in value, with the shoota boyz being the least valuable, so that's the one you want to be blocking sight to the others (you'll want to aim for refused flank deployment most of the time). Trukks can hide behind battlewagons, while protecting their rear from meltas at the same time, combine with gretchin and mek gunz to create and area where drop pods will have a hard time getting a clear shot at anything besides boyz and gretchin. The bikes are tall enough to hide 25% of wagon, so I don't think that a KFF would add a lot of value to your army. Sure, cover can be ignored but I think that an 80-20 approach is the better way to go, I don't like spending points on things that won't matter 80% of the time, even if they are very useful during the other 20%. If nothing is in range of your bikes, turbo-boosting them in front of your wagons will make them an incredibly durable screen with T5/3+/FNP, and you don't lose that much from jink due to dakkagunz being twin-linked.
* Enemies with fliers will try to alpha-strike your traktor-kannons. Adding additional T7 wounds can make eliminating them a chore. Guns that are shooting T7 gretchin aren't shooting AV12 battlewagons. ** The MA Warboss can't Waaagh!, so I like to give his wagon boarding planks to extend his reach. Continuously bragging about how boarding planks enable you to assault during your first turn can also trick your opponents into not deploying into good positions on their deployment edge
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 08:24:30
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2014/10/06 12:48:33
Subject: Re:[1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
Thanks Jidmah for one of the most helpful posts I have got on Dakka.
Yeah I got the costs of the two warboss's reveresed.
The super unit is indeed the Warboss+Bigmek+Painboy+Nob+6 bikers. The setup for the unit is that the nob takes the challenges and the WB and BM with the claws are free to swing away. The only reason that I have branched into W!G is for the MFF and picked up the Fearless bosspole to compensate for W!G gakky mob rule. You manage without a Forcefield? It seems so fragile to me.
To tell you the truth I started out with more BW and gradually worked them out of the list since what would frequently happen is that I was left with 2 BW on the table that couldn't do anything and the meaningfull stuff had been mowed down because their numbers were too small. 120 points for a transport with 0 shooting is alot I haven't tried out the 7 man units of TB but your post has almost conviced me to move back to one big unit in a BW.
I'll try and see where it goes.
I wouldn't field the Brigade at less that 2000 points because there aren't enough points left for resilient threats
FaarisShazad wrote:The guy with the spiky dildo for a picture had a good point.
Ork Management Program
I take care of problems that need to be solved with violence
2014/10/06 15:12:58
Subject: Re:[1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
sn0zcumb3r wrote: Thanks Jidmah for one of the most helpful posts I have got on Dakka. Yeah I got the costs of the two warboss's reveresed.
The super unit is indeed the Warboss+Bigmek+Painboy+Nob+6 bikers. The setup for the unit is that the nob takes the challenges and the WB and BM with the claws are free to swing away. The only reason that I have branched into W!G is for the MFF and picked up the Fearless bosspole to compensate for W!G gakky mob rule. You manage without a Forcefield? It seems so fragile to me.
Probably the same issue I had at the beginning, it's still the 5th edition mindset - you either have a KFF or you're going to lose everything. That's no longer true though. The KFF got a lot worse, you cover less models due to the wording change and no longer bubbling out from wagon, the save itself is either worse than the old 4+, or twice as expensive. However, battlewagons got a lot tougher since 5th, and I only recently began to realize that. Unless meltas or lances start poking your sides, that battlewagon will reach its target, and after that, it's no longer in great danger - either due to not being a high priority, or due to your opponents anti-tank suffering from a severe case of orks-in-their-face.
To tell you the truth I started out with more BW and gradually worked them out of the list since what would frequently happen is that I was left with 2 BW on the table that couldn't do anything and the meaningfull stuff had been mowed down because their numbers were too small. 120 points for a transport with 0 shooting is alot I haven't tried out the 7 man units of TB but your post has almost conviced me to move back to one big unit in a BW.
Well, feel free to put rokkits on them and drop the plank. Luckily our ork codex is pretty well balanced that way, many options have similar value and can be changed to match your play style. Besides shooting, battlewagons can do a lot of things though: Tank-shock, ram for S9 hits (AV16+tank), block off movement or provide cover. Due to the size of a battlewagon, it's pretty awesome at blocking stuff, for example a knight will waste most of its movement to move around the 3"x6" box. You can also park it in the path of FMC or fliers, to block their optimal firing position or even force them to leave combat airspace. Driving a battlewagon between a target you want to charge and some fire-support also protects your orks from shooting after they have finished their combat. Basically try to annoy your opponent enough with them to get him to shoot them. And, of course, parking a 4HP vehicle with AV14 pointed towards the most potent anti-vehicle shooting on an objective is a pretty nice way to gain VP. Objective secured doesn't do gak if there is a 3" wide vehicle blocking your path to an objective.
I'll try and see where it goes. I wouldn't field the Brigade at less that 2000 points because there aren't enough points left for resilient threats
Eh, you can get it to work at less, you basically switch those warbikers and trukks for more wagons. Didn't seem like the thing you wanted to do though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 15:13:38
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2014/10/07 14:25:27
Subject: [1850] - Ork - Choose between (or trash both)
sn0zcumb3r wrote: For Relics:
The codex relics are one per model and no duplicates. You can have more than one in your list.
Orkimedes Custom gubbinz are just no duplicates. You can have two or more per model.
Page 53: Orks Wargear List -- "Gifts of Gork and Mork. Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army."
Sorry mate. You gotta re-work your list.
You 're British, I'm Greek but surely Only one of each of the following may be taken PER army means only one of each.. So only one finking kap, one lucky stix etc..
It doesn't say Only one of the following...
Ahhh. Yeah sorry about that, huge mistake on my part, I've been playing it wrong for a while then thinking we were only allowed one. Apologies for that.
Glad you got the right answers in the end. Alot of people don't like Grots but I find they're very similar to Cultists in Chaos Space Marines, you get them because you need to fill the slots. People will generally ignore them because they're so worthless, giving you a nice chance to grab objectives. Apologies again for my confusion.
2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L 
