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I ran into this unit in my last game against SM. Most Sm players in our club play one of the splinter factions, so I'm not an expert on the general space marine book, but I recently ran into a dude running a model that I just can't fathom beating in any normal circumstances.

His army consisted of two tac squads, then two huge blobs of assault marines and one blob of assault terminators, who he set up turn one and started rolling straight towards my orks. I responded by opening fire with my Lootas and SAG, and sending my Battlewagon full of Meganobz at the squad that didn't include his HQ. The MANz shredded the squad in one turn, the shooting took out every model but the chapter master. The termies take heavy fire turn two and get wiped by the MANz. The chapter master charges and obliterates a unit of Gretchin (at this point I really don't think he's that crazy since my gretchins lose fights against guardsmen and stiff breezes.

So he's all but tabled at the end of turn two. Turn three, I turn and shoot everything at the chapter master.

Turns out he's got:

A jump pack
2+ 3++
Eternal warrior
7-8 attacks on the charge?
Strength 8 at full initiative
AP2
Feel no Pain for being iron hands
It Will Not Die.

He took one wound from my whole army's shooting, then obliterated the MANz without a scratch when charged in cc.

Then the last two turns of the game this one guy tabled my army through a combination of a unit a turn in close combat and one ordinance large blast that he had just cause. And the best part? He claimed that this dude, who had the most beastly stats and abilities of any single model I've ever seen, he claimed was 190 points.

So has anyone faced Generic Chapter Master Madness? How do you defeat him? I ran into the can't-hurt-him-can't-fight-him-cant-outrun-him problem.

There is no str 8 on initiative ap2 in the codex.

If he rolled furious charge Warlord trait, then he could get str 8 ap2 on init. with the burning blade, but then he would only have 5 attacks on the charge.

If he took the rampage blade he wouldnt have ap2.

If he took Pfist or hammer he would be at init. 1.


I think you got scammed.

I believe he did have furious charge. No combat lasted longer than one round, but he did get a fething ton of attacks. I thought that was a bit odd.

Maybe he didn't and he only had str8 because it would ID my MANz. He was a little mad that his brilliant "run everything straight at them" strategy failed so miserably, it's possible that he "amended" his rules so he would win.

Always, always insist on seeing a codex (or supplement). Not just in case of cheating - but because it's easy enough to get stuff wrong.

Assuming Furious Charge was the answer for having S8 @ I5, he'd still be limited to five attacks on the charge as the storm shield denies the extra attack from the CCW.

He also runs at something like 260 points so it's a big chunk of points.

I'm seeing him at 230 points without a weapon, so something definitely cheaty occurred here.

Isn't his FNP a 6+? The usual loadout involves a bike instead of jump pack which gives toughness and not slowed by charging through cover.

He isn't that much worse than a jugger lord who can has 8-13 S6 AP 2 attacks at initiative when charging.

Still nowhere near as bad as an imperial knight who punches at D and then removes folk from play when he stomps on them.

Sounds like you had a very shooty army and got a good lucky streak at the start followed by bad luck on his saves.

No way that guy was 190pts. And no way he had 8 attacks on the charge AND S8 AP2 @ initiative AND EW.

He cheated you. Plain and simple.

A CM with BB and SE and AA and jumppack runs at 270pts; that's still only 5A on the charge + HoW and only S8 if he lucks out with the furious charge warlord trait.

More than one relic is probably cheating even if you actually pay the proper number of points. Also the shield prevents you from getting an extra attack from a CCW.

wtnind wrote:
Isn't his FNP a 6+? The usual loadout involves a bike instead of jump pack which gives toughness and not slowed by charging through cover.

He isn't that much worse than a jugger lord who can has 8-13 S6 AP 2 attacks at initiative when charging.

Still nowhere near as bad as an imperial knight who punches at D and then removes folk from play when he stomps on them.

Sounds like you had a very shooty army and got a good lucky streak at the start followed by bad luck on his saves.

I had a Loota+SAG Mek, MANz in a Battlewagon, some boyz and some Trukk boyz. He charged a whole ton of unprotected AV3 at a wall of PKs and an AP2 large blast.

And it turned out to be the "correct strategy" because he had one model that could wipe my whole list after taking fire from literally everyone with a gun on the field. He even made the mistake of wiping a 40 point grot squad with his first assault

If you're arguing that that level of complete tactical ineptitude should win a game , I'm gonna have to disagree.

His tactics are one thing, but misrepresenting the rules to give himself a significant advantage is just straight up wrong.

I think you ran into Chapter Master Smashf*cker

 ChazSexington wrote:
I think you ran into Chapter Master Smashf*cker

It appears I did and I still haven't heard a good response Re: what the hell to do about him.

I always smile when I see super tanky enemy models; a few hundred points of tarpit (gaunts, guardsmen, etc) always keep 'em busy until the game is won on objectives. Everyone's happy; Captain Smashypants gets to take models away by the handful, dice get rolled. Good times. Always have a tarpit available.

Honestly, given that you already wiped out pretty much everything except the CM, it should have been a win for you, especially in a Maelstrom/objective game. Your previous tactics of bullying weaker units is good, just instead of feeding him gretchin (who can't hold morale for squat) try and give him a horde of normal boyz. Mob rule should keep you in combat for a while and although it's very unlikely that they will kill him you'll effectively neutralize him for 1-2 turns depending on how lucky his rolls are. Also if he's CM Smashf*cker he can't possibly be attacking at full initiative at S8, since there's no AP2 weapon that does so in his armoury. I seriously think your friend is cheating.

He is, in effect, a small tactical/termie squad by himself; kill him by weight of fire as a good invulnerable save really hammers the efficiency of the limited AP2 shooting you will have (unless you have LOADS of ap2 shooting spare).

Also if he is excellent in close combat and may wipe a squad in one round, don't charge. Move to within 1" and deny movement. If he gets lots of bonus charge attacks, then charge but make sure you won't likely get wiped. You want to limit consolidation/hit-&-run extra movement, re-charging & his board control.

The CM wasn't on a Bike. You were lucky.
Here is what I think your opponent geared up with: Jump Pack, Artificer Armor, Burning Blade*, Shield Eternal*, and The Imperium's Sword (Warlord Trait) for Furious Charge for ONE turn.
*Both are Relics, which many say a model can't have two Relics. The rules are not specific enough to sway everyone's mind towards one ruling. Discuss with your opponent, YMDC forums, or write to GW for a FAQ. I won't go into it here.
This gives him on ONE charge: HoW S4, 4+1(charge) attacks, S8, AP2, at Initiative. Every other Assault phase is S7 AP2.

Some things to remember about this:
- Burning Blade has Incandescent rule, which is a fancy pants Gets Hot. Make sure he rolls it after every assault phase he is in. The Blade also has Blind, so if he HITS a model, your squad takes a Blind test at end of phase. Many people forget about both rules.
- Iron Hands FnP is only 6+.
- Didn't seem the case here, but make sure he doesn't have a Command Squad with Apothecary (squad gets 5+ FnP) unless he takes a Captain along with his Chapter Master (some people do this).
- IWND is only after his turn ends, not yours.
- The fool didn't take a Bike! Much easier time bringing S8 instead of S10 to ID his FnP away. Yes, he has Eternal Warrior. This edition, and 6th edition, Eternal Warrior does not prevent ID from negating FnP. It was confirmed in 6th edition FAQ and the rules in 7th are written well enough (in this case) to continue that ruling.

Effective Counters (what you have been asking for):
- Pouring shots into the squad is the only universal way to take it down. Most people who run this guy put him in front so he can tank all the shots (not much help in your last game since he was the last survivor). When they do this, try to have your shooting come from a different side so the weaker squad mates take the hits. If you are lucky, he didn't take SS for the entire squad so this really opens him up to this strategy. Ideally, the Apothecary is in the back and you take him down first and easy, making his FnP only a 6+ from then on (again, not your last game, but still worth mentioning for future games).
- Flashgitz (the ones who roll AP). You have a 1/3 chance of ignoring his 2+ and making him use his 3++. They also do a decent amount of shots. I always look to take these guys down ASAP when I see them.
- Get the Charge off first and Tarpit. I recommend 30 Storm Boyz. You will get some HoW, your Mob rule will Tarpit him, and the weight of attacks might actually whittle him down.

I hoped this helps you out.

The closest thing I can think of with those stats is a clan raukaan CM with artificier armour, jp, gorgons chain and axe of medusa with a bp (no restrictions against 2 relics in CR) who rolled the FC warlord trait.
That would give you 6 attacks on the charge (with 1 reroll so psudo 7 attacks), at st7 ap2 BUT at I1.
He will also have EW, 5+ fnp, IWND, 2+/3++. Until wounded then these start to dip per wound.
That would rock in at 240pts. Not 190.
He cheated on the points, the initiative attacks and slightly on the stats.
He didn't however cheat on the orbital bombardment (unless he moved) as that comes with all chapter masters.

What i think happened was this guy mixed codexes. Both Clan Racoon and Codex SM are technically Iron Hands codexes. A simple if noobish mistake to make. I think that would explain the odd mixture of abilities. As far as the points go, well i think Noobs McGee just fethed up the math like a third grader at mid-terms.

As to advice on killing him id say, figure it out yourself ya filthy xenos scum! More politely I'd say go bigger, or go boyzier. Tar pit as suggested with boyz & a Doc or whip out The Beast of Armageddon.

The guy costs like 30+ boyz. I see no problem here, to be honest. Just don't throw manz at him and u're fine. You don't need to kill everything to win the game.

 koooaei wrote:
The guy costs like 30+ boyz. I see no problem here, to be honest. Just don't throw manz at him and u're fine. You don't need to kill everything to win the game.

That is what I am thinking. Just drown him in fire. He will fail saves eventually.

Your opponent cheated very badly. Therefore you don't need tips on how to kill this character. The only tip you need is to check his list.