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 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:
The Achilles is just a wimp out when what Forgeworld really need to be kicking out is the beautiful and muchly coveted Land Raider Ares... My most favouritest metal bawks ever. (With the possible exception of a double tracked Leman Russ Vanquisher conversion from late 3rd/early 4th ed.)

I had to look up the Ares to make sure it was the VindiRaider. It is. I must have one.

The reason the Land Raider Crusader is so awesome is because it is the only one that has any sort of cohesiveness in regards to its weapons, and it can fit a ton of stuff in it. Just my opinion. I don't own one and probably never will (too $).

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:
The Achilles is just a wimp out when what Forgeworld really need to be kicking out is the beautiful and muchly coveted Land Raider Ares... My most favouritest metal bawks ever. (With the possible exception of a double tracked Leman Russ Vanquisher conversion from late 3rd/early 4th ed.)

Replace the HF and I am sold. I feel the Assault Cannon and Demolisher will take care of anything before it can get within Flamer range

 Skinnereal wrote:
I always thought the PotMS was put there because the sponsons had problems lining up against the same target.

PotMS was put there to annoy Chaos Space Marines.

Well, in a game SW vs GK I've seen a Crusader being immobilized in turn 1. It suddenly became useless.
The player wished to have a god hammer LR.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in a game SW vs GK I've seen a Crusader being immobilized in turn 1. It suddenly became useless.
The player wished to have a god hammer LR.

That's a pretty nische situation.

 koooaei wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
I always thought the PotMS was put there because the sponsons had problems lining up against the same target.

PotMS was put there to annoy Chaos Space Marines.

IN 3.5 we had our own version of PotMS. Now we get a discount of 20 points instead. Sigh.

The Redeemer has to get into melta/chainfist range to be effective, the Crusader can skirt just outside of that. The Redeemer can't hold as many dudes, and has to get so close to target things with its flamers it often won't be able to bring them both to bear on one unit. The Redeemer's cool, don't get me wrong, but the Crusader can reliably put out heaps of fire every turn until it gets its cargo into the fray, and then continue chewing up anything that gets in its way after that.

I look at it like this. If I'm taking one Landraider, I'll take a Crusader because I believe it has just better overall utility in a one shot environment. However, if your going to take two Landraiders, then the Redeemers really come together. Chances are your opponent cant stop them both, add it it the fear that four flamestorm cannons brings, it can really cause some poor/hard decisions on their part.

The redeemer has one massive fault in that it is almost impossible to get it into a position where both flamers can fire off at once. The LR doesn't work as a main battle tank, it's an assault transport and the crusader is the best option in this guise.

 throwoff wrote:
The redeemer has one massive fault in that it is almost impossible to get it into a position where both flamers can fire off at once. The LR doesn't work as a main battle tank, it's an assault transport and the crusader is the best option in this guise.

Actually you can force the Issue with the Flamers. Place the LRR between Units, or almost Tank Shock. If your Flamers in the front doors you have plenty of room to unload the Squad out of the back doors, especially if you Combat Squad. I have done this with Purifiers.