Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My friend has recently required a new Ctan, which has annoyed the crap out of all my friends as we continuously lose to him... The point is does anybody have strategies to actually kill this guy?
I play Eldar but any ways of taking it down using any army are appreciated!

 Farseer Will wrote:
My friend has recently required a new Ctan, which has annoyed the gak out of all my friends as we continuously lose to him... The point is does anybody have strategies to actually kill this guy?
I play Eldar but any ways of taking it down using any army are appreciated!

Massed Guardian fire (or anything that circumvents high toughness like grav guns and deathmarks) can bring it down cost effectively.

(edit: confused Fire Warrior with Guardian)

Except that everything except fleshbane only wounds on a 6+ against gargantuan creatures. In that vein. Warlocks are a good way to accomplish it in close combat. Fleshbane on their swords meaning you are wounding it on 2s. Wraithknights can fight them pretty well with either warp cannons or strength 10 punching. Flyers are great as the C'tan has nothing to counter them. Leadership based psychic attacks, any shuriken weapons wound on 6s so dire avengers or guardians en masse can put some wounds on.

Isn't the C'Tan T9, and therefore immune to S5 and below?

Well, MSU units is going to work best, especially if you can keep them spread out to minimize the impact of the Hellstorm Template and Heavy 6D6 weapons.

Invisibility and Flyers will help as when it's firing Snapshots it's not quite as effective.

If you have the cash, you can always fight fire with fire and bring a Revenant Titan. Just make sure to get rid of StormTeks and you're set.

 seapheonix wrote:
Except that everything except fleshbane only wounds on a 6+ against gargantuan creatures.

Wrong. Grav guns wound a Tranny on 3s. Deathmarks that mark the Tranny wound on 2s.

Grav guns are the king of weapons as far as fighting LoW since they are effective against GMC and SH as well as being among the best weapons in the game.

Flyers are not a problem for a properly kitted Tranny wielding a Seismic Assault weapon. 6d6 s8 shots is going to take any single flyer down, snap fire be damned.

A C'tan with a Stride also has an excellent weapon for fighting invisibility (in addition to the Seismic Assault).

A C'tan with Withering, Assault, and Stride is among the best ways to outfit a C'tan, giving it weapons against everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thaylen wrote:
Isn't the C'Tan T9, and therefore immune to S5 and below?

In general yes. Specifically, no. The specific ruling of a USR like rending can circumvent this unless something in the GMC USRs (see Unstoppable) rules prevents it (which it does in the case of poison).

Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

lol

The only non-LoW unit (well other than wraith knight) that will put any kind of dent in it are grav centurions.

Otherwise your RoF on high str weapons is too low.

Knights might work if you want a small LoW.

Some units might hold their own in melee.

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

Check the revenants movement.

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

The Revenant Titan has 4 strength d shots it only needs one of them to be a 6 to kill it

wtnind wrote:

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

Check the revenants movement.

Check StormTeks. My money is on Necrons in the Eldar with Titan vs Necron w Tranny. The rest of our army can hurt your Titan. But yea, to be fair, this is the top 2 armies going at it when LoW are allowed.

The best ways I have seen or used to deal with a Tran C'Tan with eldar are;
1) outmaneuver it with waveserpents and simply kill everything else in their army.
2) A bunch of psychic shrieks from an Iyanden seer council.
3) Jumping ~60 guardians out in a circle around the C'Tan and blade storming it to death. The person also had doom on it though and had been killing everything else all game.
4) revenant titan
5) Fortuned jetseer council though this is likely to be a mutual destruction and the C'Tan could get lucky and remove your farseer with a stomp.

Really most of the options are not great. Trans C'Tans are incredibly hard to kill and most people don't play against them now because of this. It is a deathstar type unit and unless you brought to tools to easily kill it I recommend to minimize the effect it has on the game, kill the rest of the list, and play to objectives.

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

Check the revenants movement.

Check StormTeks. My money is on Necrons in the Eldar with Titan vs Necron w Tranny. The rest of our army can hurt your Titan. But yea, to be fair, this is the top 2 armies going at it when LoW are allowed.

OP asked what beats scissors and I said stone. Bringing up stormteks as paper isn't really helping (especially when there are plenty of effective ways of countering them/protecting a revenant).

Sure it probably wont survive the game against crons but it will reliably do the job the OP wants done (killing the ctan).

wtnind wrote:

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Revenant titan will one shot a c'tan. Proxy a wraithknight as one and see how long he wants to play with lords of war for.

Sure, if the dice gods bend over backwards in your favor. I think you misunderstand the matchup. 50 points of stormTeks and 10 warriors dropped via NS takes your 900 points out handily while the smallest GMC ever maneuvers from LOS terrain to LOS terrain to get the alpha strike on your behemoth.

Check the revenants movement.

Check StormTeks. My money is on Necrons in the Eldar with Titan vs Necron w Tranny. The rest of our army can hurt your Titan. But yea, to be fair, this is the top 2 armies going at it when LoW are allowed.

OP asked what beats scissors and I said stone. Bringing up stormteks as paper isn't really helping (especially when there are plenty of effective ways of countering them/protecting a revenant).

Not only do you have to beat the C'tan. You have to beat the rest of the Necron army which eats up Super Heavies for breakfast.

Countering stormteks:
Invisibility on revenant.
Forewarning + Fortune on revenant
Conceal + stand in ruins.

Any of those combined with the already powerful holofields will drastically reduce the effectiveness of fire from stormteks.

Hmm, I wonder what the mathhammer on that would be against 4 Storm-teks? (+ 1 Veil-tek... for first turn alpha strike, of course)

Orks: TARPIIIIT!

With only 6 wounds and a 4+ invuln, two good shots from two Vanquisher tanks armed with Beast-Hunter shells could kill it.

the only problem is the 5+ to wound, but if you could give it monster-hunter somehow...

Or, Adeptus Mechanicus Myrmidon Destructors with Rad Engines. S4 AP3 Heavy 1, Torrent, Fleshbane, Rad-Phage (and the Myrmidons have Relentless and Preferred Enemy (everything)). Rad phage is -1T for the rest of the game if you suffer a wound from a weapon with the special rule.

wtnind wrote:
Countering stormteks:
Invisibility on revenant.
Forewarning + Fortune on revenant
Conceal + stand in ruins.

Any of those combined with the already powerful holofields will drastically reduce the effectiveness of fire from stormteks.

Good thing I run culexus and otherwise know in that situation you take out the psykers first. Also, with that many points sunk into a solitary deathstar you hand me over the tactic of just ignoring the titan.

col_impact wrote:

wtnind wrote:
Countering stormteks:
Invisibility on revenant.
Forewarning + Fortune on revenant
Conceal + stand in ruins.

Any of those combined with the already powerful holofields will drastically reduce the effectiveness of fire from stormteks.

Good thing I run culexus and otherwise know in that situation you take out the psykers first. Also, with that many points sunk into a solitary deathstar you hand me over the tactic of just ignoring the titan.

Ooh yippe, I love this game:
Good job I brought a wave serpent (edit) to kill your culexus!

I'll save you some time and do your ones too:
You: Good job I brought a stormraven for my culexus
Me: Good job I brought a crimson hunter
You: Good job I actually had him riding in a thunderhawk gunship, instead of a stormraven!

Or... since shots against the Culexus are always taken at BS1, you just laugh at the Vindecare?

Mavnas wrote:
Or... since shots against the Culexus are always taken at BS1, you just laugh at the Vindecare?

Good point. But hopefully got the the point across:
The OP wanted to know what counters there were for a transcendent ctan, the answer is 'a revenant counters a ctan' (along with the other good suggestions in the thread) .

Going into what counters a revenant and what counters those counters seems pretty pointless to me.

But in the interests of accuracy I will replace vindicare with waveserpent.

Well, to be fair, I think the counters to a Transcendent C'Tan can realistically be counted on one hand, which means the necron player could credibly attempt to counter the most effective of those.

I mean, other than sheer weight of fire and luck... hard to counter those, but when a thing averages about 54 BS4 lascannon shots on average to go down, that's a lot of firepower. Most of the high volume shooters in game aren't S6.

Actually, one thing we haven't really considered are things that can knock it down a point of toughness like Rad Grenades or Enfeeble that would put it into reach for mass amounts of S5 fire.

Lots of shuriken fire will job it nicely.
Bladestorm means even catapults can hurt it.

Essentially, anything which bypasses toughness. Snipers (and you have good cheap ones) need 6's to hurt it, but you get a decent number of shots and a 4++ save is still only a 4+ save. Warlocks with witchblades and fleshbane make a nice mess, but close combat with gargantuans should be last resort due to stomp.

Harlequins with kisses, dark eldar allies with all the poison, etc, etc.

Deathmarks work, Fleshbane work.

Uh more D weapons?

locarno24 wrote:
Lots of shuriken fire will job it nicely.
Bladestorm means even catapults can hurt it.

While it is true they can hurt it... the statistics are pretty bad:

6 wounds to kill
FNP = 9 wounds to kill
4++ = 18 wounds to kill
6 to wound = 108 hits to kill
BS 4 = 162 shuriken catapault shots

That means 55 guardians all with prescience or 80 guardians without prescience have to fire at the c'tan.... doesn't really seem that viable a counter. Although if it is down to its last wound you could definitely try to finish it off with a couple of squads of dire avengers.

Snipers are the same escept they only have 1 shot each so you would need 162 space marine scouts.... or... about 200 kroot.

Tau sniper drones are rapid fire and can shoot at BS5, so they might be the more viable sniper unit counter.

Uh, T-C'tan. I hate them. Most of the escalation book is actually pretty well balanced, but the C'tan and the Revenant are just... awful. Awful, awful, awful.

The most success I've had against one was with grey knights. Instant death weapons cause d3 wounds, and with hammerhand even regular sword hits can hurt it on a 6. If you manage to charge the damn thing with enough demon hammers you can take it down, but you have to be really careful. If you don't set the trap right, he'll just dance around flaming your whole army. Also it's attacking before you with 8 ap2 attacks plus stomps. So, good luck even in combat.

Basically you have to charge out of a storm raven, or box it in with multiple units. Either way, count on 'feeding' it other credible threats until you get in a position to knock it out with whatever you plan to kill it with.

For eldar though I think psychic shriek is by far the most efficient way to kill it. Reduce it's leadership a bit with some warlocks, any you could burst it down pretty quickly.