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 Azreal13 wrote:
"look like the Warhammer range" is a slippery concept and I'd defy anyone to nail that down sufficiently to be legally enforceable.

As if that means anything to GW, I mean Warhammer.

Doesn't mean Warhammer won't try, as was seen in the Chapterhouse case.

Wow, using "Warhammer" as the brand name sounds terrible... Games Workshop is much better...

How much of a sales uptick will it take for them to rebrand all their stores?

I was going to say let's not go down that well trodden path again but see we have our hiking boots and nipple plasters on already.

 prowla wrote:

 Lockark wrote:


Yah, I agree GW has realized the GW brand is starting to get toxic, thus want people to focus on warhammer. (Let's face it. the worlds and games that have actully made us care so much about this stuff in the 1st place)

I doubt it has anything to do with 'GW brand' - after all, the whole GW brand is basically two Warhammer games. I don't think a few IP feud news have given them a 'toxic' brand that they'd need to get rid of, either. It's probably just an attempt to streamline the brand, in order to gain some sales.

It's a bit unfortunate that they are going at it the wrong way. Instead of focusing on their two core games, they should be trying to grab a share of the expanding miniature/boardgame market with a larger lineup. They have a ton of high street stores, so why expand to other brands? Just putting in a shelf for their licensing buddy FFG would probably rack a ton of income from X-Wing and 40k RPGs, and they could work with FFG to revive some of the old Specialist Games while at it.

I don't disagree that they are trying to do this the wrong way. But I got a feeling if you ask someone "What do you think of the warhammer universes" you will get a more positive response from people, then saying "What do you think about games workshop". Thus they want to experiment and see if changeing the name of some of the brick and mortar stores to the name people view more positively will increase sales.

It's not that crazy a concept in all honesty.

Personaly I feel they would just be better trying to repair the Games workshop brand, and became more diverse. It seems they believe WH40k and WHFB will carry them foreword at this point.

 George Spiggott wrote:
Previously on Dakka...

Dammit! Where is GW Fulchester when you need it?!... ...I think you'll find that's Warhammer Fulchester now. ... ...Seriously, someone needs to get on that right now!!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Warhammer-Fulchester/1483263008622232?skip_nax_wizard=true&ref_type=page_profile_button

And there was rejoicing through all the lands of the Twelve Kingdoms and Narnia.

The Auld Grump, but not Oz... there is no Joy in Ozville, mighty Kirby has struck out....

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Phobos wrote:

As an aside, I laugh until my sides hurt when I see folks saying "oh the noes, if they change the name they won't get customers who wander in looking for xboxes!". Guys those people were never customers anyways. Yes on some rare occasions, they might buy something but to even slightly consider them in a business sense as a source of revenue is laughable. If a board member were to even contemplate it, it would display almost a criminal level of incompetence at running the company.

That sort of attitude won't get you very far in any sort of sales career.

The shop front exists entirely to entice people in off the street and get them in front of your salespeople, who, if they're any good, can then use that opportunity to generate a sale. We would frequently run offers which weren't very good, because they looked good on a poster and brought customers in - once a dialogue was entered into, one could explain that the offer wasn't great, and then offer them something which was better, and looked even better than that in comparison to what they initially enquired after.

To say "they were never customers anyway" demonstrates a very short sighted and negative attitude. Will a high percentage of those who came in looking for video games end up buying? Probably unlikely, I'd speculate at less than 5%, if that, if you're sales staff are half competent. Sales is just a numbers game at it's heart though, so if one person in twenty that wonders in off the street buys something then that ends up as a not insignificant amount of revenue across all sites each year.

By effectively heading these customers off at the pass, they're essentially flipping a coin (because they don't do customer research remember?) as to whether the more obvious Warhammer branding will increase awareness amongst those who know the IP but don't connect it with GW will generate more cash than those who wander in looking for something else but ultimately are persuaded to purchase currently do.

EDIT
Huh, so I DID have to explain it....

I am currently in sales, in fact I am one of the top salesmen in my store. For point of reference, I sell motor homes.

You are mixing together various sales concepts. A promotional sale meant to lure customers in is still aimed at people who are interested in or at least vaguely curious about your product. It has nothing to do with selling to people who wandered in by mistake. They are not customers, not yet anyways.

Can you convert some of these folks to customers? Of course. And I would imagine that it would be easier in some circumstances than others. Someone looking to buy an x box as a gift for their kid might be switched to a box of space marines, providing the sales staff did a good job, because there is a bit of overlap there. But you would be crazy to name the business in the hope of luring in people by mistake and then converting them. If we take that argument to its next level, why not name the store something like "food workshop"? After all, more people want food than toy soilders, so you will get lots more traffic, right? So why don't they do it?

In my line of work, every few days some person pulls into my lot looking to buy a car. I have no idea why. I greet them, explain what I sell here and try to convert them. I'm mostly unsuccessful with that because they weren't here to buy what I sell - they were never customers to begin with. Some guy who mistankenly stumbles in looking for a $25,000 car probably is not a legitimate prospect to buy a $300,000 motor home. Every once in a very rare while, they do buy something. But my family would starve to death waiting for the next one to come around and I sure as hell don't count on it.

Branding is a huge deal, but it has nothing to do with luring people into the store by mistake.

Selling someone a $40 box of plastic models, who was originally looking for a $30 board game or toy, is a bit different than your example, though- and much more likely to succeed.

 RiTides wrote:
Selling someone a $40 box of plastic models, who was originally looking for a $30 board game or toy, is a bit different than your example, though- and much more likely to succeed.

Quite.

It's a flawed comparison between selling a considered purchase such as a car, house, motor home or similar and what, for many, is much closer to the spontaneous end. My experience is largely with an item that straddles the line somewhat (cell/mobile phones) and I would argue much closer to what would go on in a typical GW. There is a distinct line between disciplines, GW is almost FMCG when compared to "big stuff"." I have former colleagues that moved on into either real estate or vehicle sales and while there are certainly similarities, it is a whole different ball game in terms of technique employed.

Also, while I have no wish to get involved in a pissing contest, just to couch what I'm saying in some sort of context, I was one of (top 10-15) the most successful salespeople in the company, which itself was at one time (now defunct) the third largest of it's kind in the country. I went on to manage several stores so successfully that on several occasions I was tasked by senior management with taking over and turning around failing stores, which I also managed to do more often than not (hey, I wasn't a miracle worker!) So I have very relevant experience of running stores with a great deal in common with GW, as well as training staff to do essentially the same thing GW staffers do.

So while I'm not trying to say "you're wrong, I'm right" I would suggest, like RiTides, that selling someone an RV when they were looking for a shopping car doesn't really stand up to scrutiny as a comparable thing to selling someone a box of Space Marines when they came in looking for a copy of Call Of Duty.

im fine with it and it actually makes sense, were in the hobby and we know GW as GW, but EVERYONE else I know who isn't in the hobby knows it as "the warhammer shop, yeah?"

so to us its a rebrand, to everyone else its just what they thought it was called anyway. so im good with it.

 notprop wrote:
But they would be the only company that can produce Warhammer models that look like the Warhammer range in a wargaming context.......so no change then really. Risk=0


It is a brand and one that they protect by trademarking individual elements. A Warhammer Shop won't change that either.

If I won 111 million in last night's lottery I would set up a chain of Warhammer stores selling stuff that wasn't wargame related and thereby confuse GW's customers and troll their head office.

Unless of course GW have trademarked the name Warhammer for every single retail sector it possibly could be applied to:

Warhammer fashion clothes
Warhammer tyre change services
Warhammer confectionery
Warhammer wedding services
Warhammer river cruises
Warhammer picnic baskets
Warhammer historical books
Warhammer computer games
Warhammer male cosmetics -- for the hardcore Goth!

Etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
"look like the Warhammer range" is a slippery concept and I'd defy anyone to nail that down sufficiently to be legally enforceable.

There has been a good start in the Chapter House case and it turns out a lot of the Warhammer range is pretty generic and copiable.

Oh like the Virgin chain of random products, only less insidious.

Will you have Warhammer Nectar points?

 notprop wrote:
Oh like the Virgin chain of random products, only less insidious.

Will you have Warhammer Nectar points?

Get a BruiseTM for every £1000 you spend.
Fill your card with BruisesTM to earn a free exclusive limited edition mini. (Just pay £20 for delivery to your local WarhammerTM store)

 Azreal13 wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Selling someone a $40 box of plastic models, who was originally looking for a $30 board game or toy, is a bit different than your example, though- and much more likely to succeed.

Quite.

It's a flawed comparison between selling a considered purchase such as a car, house, motor home or similar and what, for many, is much closer to the spontaneous end. My experience is largely with an item that straddles the line somewhat (cell/mobile phones) and I would argue much closer to what would go on in a typical GW. There is a distinct line between disciplines, GW is almost FMCG when compared to "big stuff"." I have former colleagues that moved on into either real estate or vehicle sales and while there are certainly similarities, it is a whole different ball game in terms of technique employed.

Also, while I have no wish to get involved in a pissing contest, just to couch what I'm saying in some sort of context, I was one of (top 10-15) the most successful salespeople in the company, which itself was at one time (now defunct) the third largest of it's kind in the country. I went on to manage several stores so successfully that on several occasions I was tasked by senior management with taking over and turning around failing stores, which I also managed to do more often than not (hey, I wasn't a miracle worker!) So I have very relevant experience of running stores with a great deal in common with GW, as well as training staff to do essentially the same thing GW staffers do.

So while I'm not trying to say "you're wrong, I'm right" I would suggest, like RiTides, that selling someone an RV when they were looking for a shopping car doesn't really stand up to scrutiny as a comparable thing to selling someone a box of Space Marines when they came in looking for a copy of Call Of Duty.

You don't need to sell to everyone that comes in by mistake for it to be worth having them there. Just having them aware if what you do is a good thing. They might mention it to someone who goes in, or goes back to get a nephew a Christmas present or whatever. Companies spend a fortune getting people into the shops in the first place.

I haven't read all six pages of this so this may have been said before but I'm in the branding / marketing business (sort of, I'm a graphic designer ) so this is of interest to me.

Warhammer has organically become a more recognisable brand name than Games Workshop. My mum would know what Warhammer means in conversation whereas she wouldn't necessarily know what Games Workshop means. Therefore if I wanted her to buy me some models for my birthday she would more easily find the shop if it were called Warhammer than if it were called Games Workshop.

Those of us within the hobby will find it either way, those without may more easily find it under the new name - ergo it makes sense and I think it's a good move. The stores that have been rebranded have probably been done so on a trial basis, so time will tell if it's been effective or not.

Games Workshop Limited will no doubt remain the name of the owning company.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Oh like the Virgin chain of random products, only less insidious.

Will you have Warhammer Nectar points?

Get a BruiseTM for every £1000 you spend.
Fill your card with BruisesTM to earn a free exclusive limited edition mini. (Just pay £20 for delivery to your local WarhammerTM store)

Surely you remember the SKULLZ promotion? Yes, SKULLZ. Get a shiny metal skull sticker for every £10 you spend, fill in a card, and get rewards at various levels. Certainly, the first few in the chain were keyrings and mini posters, but they eventually had re-issues of 'classic' metal models and an exclusive diorama! Not the worst idea in convincing you to spend now rather than later, especially if you're new to the hobby and loading up on things. But that was back when £10 bought you more than 50% of a plastic Librarian, of course...

Bioptic wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Oh like the Virgin chain of random products, only less insidious.

Will you have Warhammer Nectar points?

Get a BruiseTM for every £1000 you spend.
Fill your card with BruisesTM to earn a free exclusive limited edition mini. (Just pay £20 for delivery to your local WarhammerTM store)

Surely you remember the SKULLZ promotion? Yes, SKULLZ. Get a shiny metal skull sticker for every £10 you spend, fill in a card, and get rewards at various levels. Certainly, the first few in the chain were keyrings and mini posters, but they eventually had re-issues of 'classic' metal models and an exclusive diorama! Not the worst idea in convincing you to spend now rather than later, especially if you're new to the hobby and loading up on things. But that was back when £10 bought you more than 50% of a plastic Librarian, of course...

I know I like my Ultramarine Standard Bearer from the Skullz offer. Its not everyone's favourite model. I suspect it was a trial model for a new sculptor and possibly wasn't good enough for a retail release (very skinny power armour legs) but as something for, in effect nothing, I was happy.

Don't get me started on the £45 for one Service Stud BL offer

 LutherMax wrote:
I haven't read all six pages of this so this may have been said before but I'm in the branding / marketing business (sort of, I'm a graphic designer ) so this is of interest to me.

Warhammer has organically become a more recognisable brand name than Games Workshop. My mum would know what Warhammer means in conversation whereas she wouldn't necessarily know what Games Workshop means. Therefore if I wanted her to buy me some models for my birthday she would more easily find the shop if it were called Warhammer than if it were called Games Workshop.

Those of us within the hobby will find it either way, those without may more easily find it under the new name - ergo it makes sense and I think it's a good move. The stores that have been rebranded have probably been done so on a trial basis, so time will tell if it's been effective or not.

Games Workshop Limited will no doubt remain the name of the owning company.

Warhammer is at risk of succumbing to genericide, and it is a mark that retains less flexibility in the long term.

It would be like Proctor and Gamble rebranding itself as Mr. Clean.

The fact is Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are 'worlds' that they have created, and they have enough scope within them to do plenty more than just the two core games (e.g. Space Hulk, Dreadfleet etc). They also have Tolkien's world to play with.

I guess this move suggests they have no long term plans to move outside of these worlds; whether or not that will become restrictive in the future I'm not sure.

All signs are (particularly the language from the last annual report, and Kirby's preamble) that they plan to no longer make products for anything but their own worlds (i.e. won't be pursuing the Tolkien world further after their Hobbit obligation is complete).

That makes sense, both LotR and the Hobbit minis / games were linked to the film releases, and when all the characters are done they're done. Plus with their own worlds there's no license fee to pay

I refer to it as my "Toy Store".

weeble1000 wrote:

 LutherMax wrote:
I haven't read all six pages of this so this may have been said before but I'm in the branding / marketing business (sort of, I'm a graphic designer ) so this is of interest to me.

Warhammer has organically become a more recognisable brand name than Games Workshop. My mum would know what Warhammer means in conversation whereas she wouldn't necessarily know what Games Workshop means. Therefore if I wanted her to buy me some models for my birthday she would more easily find the shop if it were called Warhammer than if it were called Games Workshop.

Those of us within the hobby will find it either way, those without may more easily find it under the new name - ergo it makes sense and I think it's a good move. The stores that have been rebranded have probably been done so on a trial basis, so time will tell if it's been effective or not.

Games Workshop Limited will no doubt remain the name of the owning company.

Warhammer is at risk of succumbing to genericide, and it is a mark that retains less flexibility in the long term.

It would be like Proctor and Gamble rebranding itself as Mr. Clean.

This is a big thing. Many people refer to all tabletop games as war hammers, so it's going to be a hard mark to defend.