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You all recently helped me pinpoint the army i was going to play. Daemons. Since getting the book and taking it round a friends house, He was quick to point out an article on his laptop stating how Daemons have got kicked in the teeth.
The nerf to FMC has apparently kicked daemons in the teeth and quite badly. (again coming from my friend). He's a tau player. all i seem to get is " oh well i'll equip my tau with this thing that lets me shoot you when you deep strike. then you'll be stood there for a turn and i'll just shoot you" same goes for the FMC since they cant assault now from flying.
I've then come back to read several articles slating Daemons core troops saying that they're a waste of time and not to use them as points are better spent elsewhere, and for the majority of Khorne models.
It just feels like since talking to him i feel like im so limited in what army i can play that i have to use a "cookie cutter list" to even do well with daemons, and the army i really wanted was one with some options. to play how i wanted and to not be wasted.
Am i wrong with thinking this way after an evening of feeling like i've made a mistake?
We aren't blessed with a multitude of options I'm afraid, regardless of which army you play, if your objective is to win games. The reason cookie cutter lists exist is because multiple Codexes display poor internal balance and therefore the disparity between what is good and what is bad is such that certain choices are essentially a handicap.
That said, don't panic about daemons, yes FMC isn't the force it once was, but Slaanesh and Tzeentch gunships are still strong, plus daemons can own the psychic phase like pretty much no other force.
The internal balance of the Daemons book does mean not all the gods come out equal, and Khorne is the hardest to win with undoubtedly, but unless you're playing super competitive all of the time, I actually think the Daemons book has the most units that CAN work, especially with the 7th changes to allies.
For instance, Bloodletters are rightly criticised because they are too soft and Daemons lack a viable way to get them into combat. Stick 10 in a Landraider (or more in a Spartan!) with a Herald and suddenly all those issues disappear. (Although quite why they're more expensive than all the other God's troops I, not sure in)
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Unfortunaley im so against the ally chart. I want to collect an army. And that army alone. I dont want to be a general that avoids a weakness by plugging it with another codexes units.
From what i hear i know Daemons are still within the top 5 Codexes under Eldar, Tau, and maybe space marines. But with my tau friend pointing out all the holes in the army its quite disheartening to hear.. and from receiving the Codex and from what i can gather you more or less play as a horde or dont use any troops at all, i would have rather gotten orks and played a green tide list.
Its just abit worrying or upsetting having a new army book bashed all night :/
Don't worry about it too much. You can pore over web lists and reviews and theoryhammer all you want but if you like the fluff or some particular models I'd say go for those.
Then play some games, proxy some models against friends and find out what you like and what you find works.
I mean to address some of your concerns, I don't really see how you can write off the core troops. I mean 7th Edition made Nurglings an incredibly cheap source of objective secured that can easily get a 2+ cover save in almost any scenario. (Daemons are not Fearless and can go to ground. Nurgle Daemons have Shrouded)
Daemonettes are a very fast Infantry model and are quiet effective for what they are.
Plaguebearers probably lost out with the Nurgling changes but nonetheless if you need a tougher troop choice that can get the same 2+ Cover save then you have it.
Bloodletters pay too much for the power sword. I have 30 of them and they tog out occasionally but I'd pay quite a price to give them even a Strength 3 gun and make use of that BS 5.
The changes to the Psychic powers hit Horrors, making their Psychic shooting attack less useful but they make good Warp Charge Batteries.
On the Flying Monstrous Creatures, well firstly remember that even if you don't use Swooping they now retain Jink so Daemon Princes of Nurgle can move up the field with 2+ Cover and even the Bloodthirster, while more likely to die now can still make use of Jump MC movement and Jink. It isn't ideal but it's not the end of the world.
The Lord of Change suffers much the same way as the Horrors with it's shooting but there is still the Malefic table to use with your Horror batteries
Soul Grinders are all around good and you can take one in pretty much any god list. On top of that I actually rather like the Skull Cannon though this may be because I take on a lot of Orks.
Finally on the topic of Khorne units, there is always Khorne Heralds and Fleshhounds. You really can't go wrong pairing the two together.
By the 37 keys of Tzeentch,We open the way for our brothers,
By the 1000 whispers of Slaanesh we call to them,
By the 12 plagues of Nurgle we fell their enemies,
And by the mighty axe of Khorne we cut open the world for them!
- Ritual of Summoning, Recited by Amphion and Zethus Dark Sorcerers of the Deimos Peninsula,Kronos
You all recently helped me pinpoint the army i was going to play. Daemons. Since getting the book and taking it round a friends house, He was quick to point out an article on his laptop stating how Daemons have got kicked in the teeth.
The nerf to FMC has apparently kicked daemons in the teeth and quite badly. (again coming from my friend). He's a tau player. all i seem to get is " oh well i'll equip my tau with this thing that lets me shoot you when you deep strike. then you'll be stood there for a turn and i'll just shoot you" same goes for the FMC since they cant assault now from flying.
I've then come back to read several articles slating Daemons core troops saying that they're a waste of time and not to use them as points are better spent elsewhere, and for the majority of Khorne models.
It just feels like since talking to him i feel like im so limited in what army i can play that i have to use a "cookie cutter list" to even do well with daemons, and the army i really wanted was one with some options. to play how i wanted and to not be wasted.
Am i wrong with thinking this way after an evening of feeling like i've made a mistake?
Ignore your friend and the so-called "internet wisdom". Daemons are absolutely kickarse right now, and have numerous different lists that work quite well.
While it's true that the so-called "flying circus" list has taken a hit from the new 7th ed rules, keep in mind that it's still viable with the right choices and synergies... Nurgle DP's for example can gain a 2+ cover save when jinking, which is batgak crazy!
Daemons are the undisputed kings of the new Psychic phase. Even Grey Knights and Eldar can't compete when we go truly psyker heavy... Tau are laughably bad in the new phase to boot.
You can get around Tau intercept fire by simply deploying normally. We're speedy enough with so many options for Beast or Cavalry or Jetbike type units that even Tau will potentially only have a single Shooting phase to gun down every possible threat.
Our Troops are just fine to boot...
Plaguebearers work well as objective campers and once in cover, can only viably be removed through either assaulting them or else hitting them cover ignoring abilities. (and even then, you've still a 5++ and potential FnP to fall back on)
Horrors are great for farming additional Warp Charges, can gain an array of nasty shooting powers and/or act as summoning batteries, and are equally difficult to remove from cover thanks to combining their Daemon of tzeentch rule alongside Go-to-Ground.
Daemonettes in are silly fast, and in large units of 18-20 make solid assaulters for such a cheap cost.
Bloodletters are pure evil b******** to MEQ's, and can still be made to work by Deep Striking them in off of another unit's Icon.
A Lord of Change w/Boomstick (Staff of Change) + 2x Greater Gifts and 3 levels of Divination is damn near broken... if he lands Precognition, he simply becomes plain unfair to pretty much everyone bar Eldar or GK's.
Overall, Daemons are actually a brutal match-up for Tau as we tend to ignore all of their most annoying traits... We have no high armour saves for them to ignore. Our invulns care gak-all for their masses of cover ignoring shenanigans.
We have more super speedy assault units than we know what to do with, and which will ignore their mutual supporting Overwatch fire. (as we can viably have 3-4+ units all hitting home at the same time)
We crush them utterly in the Psychic phase. Plus easier Malefic means we can always either make more Obsec units where needed, and/or bring in the perfect supporting unit. (or just conjure up a fresh Greater Daemon!)
Tau overall tend to fear us a lot more than we fear them!
You all recently helped me pinpoint the army i was going to play. Daemons. Since getting the book and taking it round a friends house, He was quick to point out an article on his laptop stating how Daemons have got kicked in the teeth.
The nerf to FMC has apparently kicked daemons in the teeth and quite badly. (again coming from my friend). He's a tau player. all i seem to get is " oh well i'll equip my tau with this thing that lets me shoot you when you deep strike. then you'll be stood there for a turn and i'll just shoot you" same goes for the FMC since they cant assault now from flying.
I've then come back to read several articles slating Daemons core troops saying that they're a waste of time and not to use them as points are better spent elsewhere, and for the majority of Khorne models.
It just feels like since talking to him i feel like im so limited in what army i can play that i have to use a "cookie cutter list" to even do well with daemons, and the army i really wanted was one with some options. to play how i wanted and to not be wasted.
Am i wrong with thinking this way after an evening of feeling like i've made a mistake?
Ignore your friend and the so-called "internet wisdom". Daemons are absolutely kickarse right now, and have numerous different lists that work quite well.
While it's true that the so-called "flying circus" list has taken a hit from the new 7th ed rules, keep in mind that it's still viable with the right choices and synergies... Nurgle DP's for example can gain a 2+ cover save when jinking, which is batgak crazy!
Daemons are the undisputed kings of the new Psychic phase. Even Grey Knights and Eldar can't compete when we go truly psyker heavy... Tau are laughably bad in the new phase to boot.
You can get around Tau intercept fire by simply deploying normally. We're speedy enough with so many options for Beast or Cavalry or Jetbike type units that even Tau will potentially only have a single Shooting phase to gun down every possible threat.
Our Troops are just fine to boot...
Plaguebearers work well as objective campers and once in cover, can only viably be removed through either assaulting them or else hitting them cover ignoring abilities. (and even then, you've still a 5++ and potential FnP to fall back on)
Horrors are great for farming additional Warp Charges, can gain an array of nasty shooting powers and/or act as summoning batteries, and are equally difficult to remove from cover thanks to combining their Daemon of tzeentch rule alongside Go-to-Ground.
Daemonettes in are silly fast, and in large units of 18-20 make solid assaulters for such a cheap cost.
Bloodletters are pure evil b******** to MEQ's, and can still be made to work by Deep Striking them in off of another unit's Icon.
A Lord of Change w/Boomstick (Staff of Change) + 2x Greater Gifts and 3 levels of Divination is damn near broken... if he lands Precognition, he simply becomes plain unfair to pretty much everyone bar Eldar or GK's.
Overall, Daemons are actually a brutal match-up for Tau as we tend to ignore all of their most annoying traits... We have no high armour saves for them to ignore. Our invulns care gak-all for their masses of cover ignoring shenanigans.
We have more super speedy assault units than we know what to do with, and which will ignore their mutual supporting Overwatch fire. (as we can viably have 3-4+ units all hitting home at the same time)
We crush them utterly in the Psychic phase. Plus easier Malefic means we can always either make more Obsec units where needed, and/or bring in the perfect supporting unit. (or just conjure up a fresh Greater Daemon!)
Tau overall tend to fear us a lot more than we fear them!
Thats generally made me feel so much better I've been out the game for so so long now i cant really pinpoint decent units or effectiveness to them.. since i've been playing fantasy for the last 4 years. But like i said.. .you tend to look at interest lists and listening to my friend... its really frustrating. He also tells me that he is able to deny my charges with his overcharged riptide and his battle suits, oh and also stealth suits as they can disengage my charge distance or something?
He tells me all this stuff.. and as im not too clued up, i listen, get back home and then Read all the negativity on the internet! Thanks
I mean 7th Edition made Nurglings an incredibly cheap source of objective secured that can easily get a 2+ cover save in almost any scenario. (Daemons are not Fearless and can go to ground. Nurgle Daemons have Shrouded)
Considering the amount of Ignores Cover (Eldar have a field day with them), and big S6+ blasts that have been cropping up with ignores cover, it's kind of hard to say if nurglings are really that useful.
I mean 7th Edition made Nurglings an incredibly cheap source of objective secured that can easily get a 2+ cover save in almost any scenario. (Daemons are not Fearless and can go to ground. Nurgle Daemons have Shrouded)
Considering the amount of Ignores Cover (Eldar have a field day with them), and big S6+ blasts that have been cropping up with ignores cover, it's kind of hard to say if nurglings are really that useful.
Necrons, Grey Knights, (Dark Eldar?), and Orks don't have ignore cover, or much access to big blasts
I mean 7th Edition made Nurglings an incredibly cheap source of objective secured that can easily get a 2+ cover save in almost any scenario. (Daemons are not Fearless and can go to ground. Nurgle Daemons have Shrouded)
Considering the amount of Ignores Cover (Eldar have a field day with them), and big S6+ blasts that have been cropping up with ignores cover, it's kind of hard to say if nurglings are really that useful.
Necrons, Grey Knights, (Dark Eldar?), and Orks don't have ignore cover, or much access to big blasts
Not exactly armies you may see often, but fair enough.
DE will often be allied with Eldar, BB and all that.
Thats generally made me feel so much better I've been out the game for so so long now i cant really pinpoint decent units or effectiveness to them.. since i've been playing fantasy for the last 4 years. But like i said.. .you tend to look at interest lists and listening to my friend... its really frustrating. He also tells me that he is able to deny my charges with his overcharged riptide and his battle suits, oh and also stealth suits as they can disengage my charge distance or something?
He tells me all this stuff.. and as im not too clued up, i listen, get back home and then Read all the negativity on the internet! Thanks
He's also BS'ing a good bit too...
Yes, Tau can (annoyingly) have 'Supporting Fire' on their Overwatch reactions, allowing other nearby units to poor added shooting into a charging unit... unless you also charge those supporting units! Units only get to make a single Overwatch reaction, so if you can get 3-4 of your units all charging into separate units on the same turn, then the Tau Overwatch really begins to suffer. And between the likes of Nurgle Beasts, Jugger Herald-led Flesh Hounds, Seekers, Karanak-led Bloodcurshers, Fiends, Screamers, Furies, Daemonettes... we're not exactly lacking for scary & fast assault options!
The deal with their various battlesuits is that Tau suits can *always* make a move in their Assault phase. Hence their ability to 'jump in' & open fire with their guns, and then 'jump out' back from danger...
Of course, that's a solidly powerful ability against opponents who only tend to footslog at 6" + run/turn and/or rely on non-assault transports to get into range. It's pretty moot against us since we can field almost an entire army of Beasts/Cavalry/Jetbike/Jump Infantry type units.
The changes to the Psychic powers hit Horrors, making their Psychic shooting attack less useful but they make good Warp Charge Batteries.
The Lord of Change suffers much the same way as the Horrors with it's shooting but there is still the Malefic table to use with your Horror batteries
As a Tzeentch player, I'd like to point out;
1. Horrors are indeed much worse at using the Primaris power 'Flickering Fire' now. It's costly to cast, and the Horrors suffer from only BS3 meaning you really need to throw 4-5 added dice into putting up Prescience on the unit... Of course, now in 7th ed, Horrors are fully capable of casting WC2+ powers! This means it's actively worthwhile to roll up your 1 spell on the Tzeentch table.
Bolt of Change is awesome - it can bust open vehicles, and Beams no longer lose strength like they did in 6th. And it's cheap to cast to boot as it's only WC1.
Infernal Gateway is good as well now since the Horrors can cast it, and it ignores 2+ saves. Plus odds are pretty decent at it going off at S8+, especially if you add in a Tzherald w/Exalted Locus.
A Lord of Change's tactics have not erm, 'changed' (pun intended!) from last edition... Always default his Lesser Gift to the Boomstick for guaranteed S8/ap2 attacks in combat. 9take that stupid Crisis Suits!) Add on a pair of Greater Gifts for frankly hilarious levels of protection. Take all 3 psychic power rolls on Divination.
He's your friendly, neighbourhood buff-bot. Hand out his various augments where needed, and have him enter the fray to clean up the stragglers and/or smoke T4/multi-wound units. If he lands Precog, it's almost unfair how good he gets!
Malefic is actually a bit of a trap on a LoC as Divination suits him so much better... Leave the Malefic to smaller units of Horrors who won't gain Tzherald support and/or the likes of Nurgle Heralds... Slaany characters and Princes are likely still better off maining Telepathy over Malefic as it's spell line-up are overall still much better supports for Daemons overall. (unless of course you take Be'lakor, who gets the entire Telepathy lore!)
I mean 7th Edition made Nurglings an incredibly cheap source of objective secured that can easily get a 2+ cover save in almost any scenario. (Daemons are not Fearless and can go to ground. Nurgle Daemons have Shrouded)
Considering the amount of Ignores Cover (Eldar have a field day with them), and big S6+ blasts that have been cropping up with ignores cover, it's kind of hard to say if nurglings are really that useful.
Necrons, Grey Knights, (Dark Eldar?), and Orks don't have ignore cover, or much access to big blasts
Not exactly armies you may see often, but fair enough.
DE will often be allied with Eldar, BB and all that.
I've been playing Orks and Necrons exclusively since 7th hit, so I see them a a fairly bit often
So Chaos Daemons arent that bad? I was just after an army that has multiple different builds that can play well I was stuck between Orks and Daemons... and i thought daemons may have been the funner army with the randomness... i just didnt want to have to choose certain units because the rest were unusable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Can anyone just give me a rough idea to a tier list?... just to see how the armies im looking at are fairing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/11 12:28:22
Bubble of Hate: Mostly a Khorne-only tactic. Given how fast Flesh Hounds are, get them, get two squads. Grab a Khorne-marked Soul Grinder too. Also grab a Herald of Khorne and give him the Hate-fuelled Locus and the Grimoire of True names then stick him in a Blood Throne. Grab some Bloodcrushers as well just in case and make sure they have an Icon and an Instrument. Grab 2 squads of Bloodletters and also give them Instruments. Grab a Skull Cannon to help with grenades. Now have something in the backfield with a Comms Relay and backfield scoring, anything will do. Maybe 2 squads of Plaguebearers if you really want to. Maybe a backfield Soul Grinder as well. Got all that? Reserve the Bloodletters, the Cannon, one Grinder, the Crushers and the Throne. On the first turn, Hounds will be going up and hug cover, getting ready to enter your intended drop point. Deepstrike the Crushers and use its Instrument to bring in the Throne (Details are blurry on whether Icons work immediately but that's why you have run). The Herald should cast the Grimoire of True Names on the Crushers and hope you roll well. Deepstrike in a Bloodletter Squad and use their Instrument to bring in the Cannon. Ditto the second Bloodletter squad bringing in the Grinder. Try to get everyone within the bubble of hate that the Blood Throne has and force your opponent to pick their poison before everything mass charges. They should only have one turn to react and all those threats are out for blood.
Wound shenanigans, Daemon edition: Mounted Khornate and Slaaneshi heralds, Karanak included, make great escorts for their multi-wound beasts/cavalry. Not only do they add the extra killing power of herald and the bonuses of the loci, 2+ Look out sirs let you spread wounds around, keeping your speedy pets going and keeping icons alive for all your deep strikers. Mounted khornates work best at this as their mount not only gives you another wound, but gives him toughness 5, letting him take str 8 shots for his t4 bloodcrusher and hound squadies. Tzeentch heralds can do this as well with screamers,and technically flamers but they suck, but aren't as effective. You can't shoot the herald and sweeping attack and the herald doesn't really want to be in melee, but it's not a bad squad for some speedy divination buffs while the screamers sweeping attack things and then retreat. Sadly this doesn't work for nurglites, as their 'mount' doesn't make them any faster so they they can't keep up with beasts and drones. This is probably because a plague drone mount would make all the other heralds jealous and wound shenanigans on beasts, who would just it will not die the wounds back, would be a little too broken.
The super-standard daemons list: Fateweaver, 20 Bloodletters with herald, 20 Daemonettes with herald, 20 Horrors with Herald (using prescience and flickering fire), Skull Cannon, Soul Grinder. It all fits in 1500 pts and can deal with most things. For light vehicles you have the Skull Cannon and S6 psychic volleys from the Horrors. For heavy vehicles you have the Soul Grinder and Fateweaver. If they have a Heldrake just concede.
Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of war: (Note that this tactics follows "The more the merrier" rule) 20-40 Flesh hounds, Karanak attached to a unit of around 5 'Crushers with Icon and Jugger-herald, Soul Grinder and/or Cannons of Khorne in reserve. Deploy as close as possible while stretching unit coherency horizontally to the max. Scout move the 'hounds and the 'crushers(through Karanak) 12". You are already halfway across the board if not more(depending on deployment.) If you go second that's a possible turn 1 charge. If you go first then on turn 2 you can charge almost everything after you move 12" again (Remember that beast and cav aren't slowed by terrain.). If not, run, their fleet helps. By turn three you should be able to charge or have charged anything on the table. Once reserves start to come in on turn 2+ your icon will be in the center of the table allowing you to Deepstrike flawlessly. The hounds can run through cover, have 2 wounds and always a 5++. They can kill a lot of things and survive. Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Meaty Balls of Rage: Run 5 monstrous creatures (1 Greater Daemon,3 Daemon Princes of same god,1 Daemon Prince of your choice), all of which rolling on Biomancy. You havent seen unkillable until you've seen the rage in your opponent's eyes as his vendetta's lascannons wound your T10 Great Unclean One of 5's thanks to Iron Arm. Its beautiful. Throw in Greater Rewards for more awesome things, such as Feel No Pain (4+), It Will Not Die/+1 Wound, Rerollable Invulns, etc. Daemon Princes of Slaanesh with the Greater Reward Whip + Iron Arm = Dead Fliers. Seriously, 2D6Str 7-9 shots at BS 5 is amazing. Beware the new Eldar. S10 will instant death daemon princes and some greater daemons.
Screamer Star: This can be really fun to play (though infuriating on the receiving end) and is quite liberating as you don't have to worry about anything but killing and staying alive (not recommended HIGHLY recommended for tournament play), so here is what you do. Take 4 heralds of Tzeentch on discs, give one of them the grimoire of true names. Now use the rest of your points on Fateweaver (to reroll the grimoire check if need be), a 6 to 9 man unit of screamers. Use the rest of the points on Daemon Prince heavy support and troops. Cast forewarning on the herald and screamer unit and use the grimoire for a 2++ rerollable cause you're a daemon of tzeentch. You now have a giant deathstar that will not fething die; much rage will ensue from the other end of the table. Though not truly the best for close combat, it is good for vehicle hunting (with the Screamers' Armorbane attacks) and can easily tarpit forever; besides you have Daemon Princes for hitting hard. As a bonus, if you got second turn, keep these guys in the middle of the table then split off the heralds on the last turn to contest all the objectives. Note: Just be careful, the grimoire doesn't work on its bearer but that's what Look Out Sir! is for.
Daemon King: This requires a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (perhaps several), Fateweaver, and a whole lot of points dumped into said prince. First you need the Grimoire, secondly you need your princes to be ML3 and roll up Forewarning for a 4++, giving you a 2++ rerollable, then you need either a greater etherblade or an eternal blade and you must roll up Iron Arm, if you get warp speed or endurance too, that's just gravy. Now you have a model that can beat Horus in a one on one dust up without a scratch on it. Not as reliable as the Screamer Star, but still deliciously rage inducing. Keep away from D-strength units unless you want to see all your hard work go up in smoke.
Operation Touhou: Heralds of Tzeentch can use flickering fire to fire 4d6 worth of heavy bolter shots. This is madness level of dakka from one model even if you roll all ones you're still ahead of the curve as far as most shooting HQ's go. Take eight (you can only have four Herolds for each Force Org Chart) heralds of Tzeentch, upgrade them to level three for mind bullets, for all of them roll two of your three powers on the Tzeentch psychic powers and the third where you like in the main book *cough*Divination*cough*. Tzeentch has two anti infantry powers, (flicking fire and firestorm) and two anti tank powers (bolt and infernal gate). You want one anti tank power, and you want to swap the other power for flickering fires. This alone nets you the ability to fire between 32(all ones) to 192 (all sixes) worth of heavy bolter shots, from your HQ section alone!
Molon Labe: One (or more) unit(s) of Bloodletters with (at least) one attached Herald hunkering down in a Fortress of Redemption with heavy bolters and Krakstorm Missiles. Man the TL-Icarus and Heavy Bolters with Bloodletters while the Herald mans the missile silo. The Herald's BS7 will more often than not prevent the blast marker for the missile silo from scattering. This setup will do 3 things: first, it gives you a very good AA option (a twin-linked, double-ranged lascannon that skyfires and intercepts can down most aircraft with a single shot. TL-BS5 is also effectively BS10); second, it'll provide artillery support that obviates the need for a Nurgle Grinder and even outdoes an allied Defiler's battle cannon. Lastly, it's gonna be a very hard thing to deal with: between the building's AV14 and 4 HP per section and the cover save granted to occupants, it's a very tough cookie shooting-wise; anything brave enough to assault it will get a thorough gunning from its occupants and then has to fight Bloodletters in cover in close-combat. To that end, tool up your Herald and/or Bloodreaper for challenge duty or just give them a Blade of Blood if they're gonna be facing down numerous foes (or both if you have the points); this might also be one of the few times where the Exalted Locus of Wrath is useful on foot-slogging Bloodletters.
Don´t let the doomsayers get to you. We have a couple of Daemon players in our group and unless dice really hate them ( Daemons are a bit more random than other armies generally ) they do just fine consistently, while not resulting to cookiecutter armies. They do have over 13 years of 40K experience though but I´m sure after you´ve played some games you´ll do fine ( presuming there´s no "fluffbunny vs. tournament shark" setting going on. )
First of all imo Chaos daemons offers one of the most diverse codices available. They can field FMC lists, cavalry and beast spam, hordes, summoning or a mixture. All of these can be viable in a competitive sense and offer a range of play styles greater than most other codices.
They have a great internal balancing, with many viable options. Of the troop choices for example, people can find use for all of the options available, except for bloodletters. 4 out of 5 is pretty good.
Secondly, Daemons are one of the most competitive books out there. Whilst summoning lists are considered by some to be top tier, daemon lists that don't rely on it are still performing well.
Finally, Daemons usually act as a natural counter to the tau. They have the speed to threaten a gunline quickly, many do not rely on cover saves, tau do not have the psychic power to counter a summoning and soul grinders are difficult targets for missile spam tau to deal with.
At first glance daemons seem weak compared to other options. Their strengths are not immediately apparent. Indeed when you are learning to play them they will sometimes fail you in the most spectacular ways.
However if you stick it out you will find them to be one of the most diverse and tactically rewarding armies available.
Even one year after the release of the book, which when released was met to the whines of disapproving players stating it was underpowered, Daemons has consistently proven itself time and time again in competitive play. Not only this, but these victories were won through a variety of lists, which have changed with the meta. I am continually surprised by the Daemons codex, which has produced many combinations and tactics that at first glance were not visible.
Just keep in mind that people love to criticize things since it makes them feel like experts. Nobody considers people who like things experts. But the latter ones are happier
My armies:
Eldar Necron Chaos Space Marines Grey Knights Imperial Knights Death Guard
Even b letters are useful put them in a bastion or behind a agis, theve got bs5 so best shots (bar greaters) going ive found them good in that roll manning interceptor weapons then charging drop podded units and cutting up fast stuff that comes near.
I've been out the game for so so long now i cant really pinpoint decent units or effectiveness to them.. since i've been playing fantasy for the last 4 years. But like i said.. .you tend to look at interest lists and listening to my friend... its really frustrating. He also tells me that he is able to deny my charges with his overcharged riptide and his battle suits, oh and also stealth suits as they can disengage my charge distance or something?
) Add on a pair of Greater Gifts for frankly hilarious levels of protection. Take all 3 psychic power rolls on Divination.
