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Greetings all,

I have had the biggest question concerning the book First Heretic and the Primarch Project scene. 3/4 through the book I believe there is a part where the "emergence" of every Primarch is explained in a small paragraph long description. It just so happens that all the primarchs that are discussed are Chaos. I have bene able to identify all the primarchs except the very first one. The description they use is that (and i am paraphrasing) "forest planet, dense trees, black hair as black as the armor of the army he would lead.

This made me think... It makes me think of Lion El Johnson, due to the forest planet and the black pre heresy armor. However the Lion was famous for his beautiful long blonde hair. I cannot think of whom-else it could be.

Help me out

I cannot think of a Traitor Primarch that was found on a heavily-forested world. Most of the worlds the Traitor Primarchs came from were pretty terrible places. I suppose an argument could be made for Mortarion, given that he is from Space Transylvania... but that's tenuous.

For some reason, the hair color of the Lion and Sanguinius always seem to change from one description to the next.

I believe it is meant to be Lion El'jonson. Everything else about it matches El'jonson or the Pre Heresy Dark Angels too closely to be anyone else.

Guessing there's just some confusion or unsettled debate on Primarch appearance. I prefer to think they were showing us the fact that the Lion was to be sorely tested by Chaos. The fact he has a different hair color now (blonde) indicates something has changed from what was shown and one side won out with el'jonson. But which side?

Or, you know... He dyed his hair. That is a possibility.

jareddm wrote:
Or, you know... He dyed his hair. That is a possibility.

Too simple! Nothing in the 40k Universe can be that easy!

That begs the question...

Does geneseed prevent their roots from showing a month down the line?

yeh i agree with you @jarred and @coldstream...

no other primarch was from a heavy densed forest and the armor description was on point with the DA. However all the other primarchs that were listed were clearly chaos and i was never under the impression that DA were on the same level as the other traitorous legions.

*for those who dont know what we are talking about... we are referring to the book "the first heretic" pg. 307-312

Unless it is a referance to one of the lost primarchs, but atm it seems to be describing the lion!

I agree it describes the lion, but why I reference the lion with traitorous legions. When there were other Primarchs who I believe were more inclined to go chaos than the lion.

The lion was actually chaos's first choice. They just realized he would have been much harder to control than Horus.

Caliban itself was teeming with chaos, and we are never quite sure whether the Watchers were the last few remaining Old Ones that were keeping the chaos excursions at bay, or if they were themselves some form of chaos.

@eihnlazer where did you get the knowledge that Lion was chaos's first choice? Im not trying to call you out, I just want to know for my own lore knowledge sake.

The swaying of Luther was a big indication.

It was almost an exact copy of what happened with lorgor and his legion (eribus and company).

I believe if Johnson had not been raised as a knight he would have fallen to chaos. He certainly held himself up high enough with his sense of justice to seem arrogant. He also didn't pay attention to his closest friends because he felt there was no way they could betray him.

but still... why depict all chaos primarchs and randomly throw in the lion in there....?

 chuckz1487 wrote:
However the Lion was famous for his beautiful long blonde hair.
Help me out

He dyed them white to look more fancy.

 chuckz1487 wrote:
but still... why depict all chaos primarchs and randomly throw in the lion in there....?

I don't believe it is random. Caliban is a world saturated by Chaos, like Eihnlazer mentions in his other post. It was likely their intention that he would fall, or perhaps they knew that he would not, but Luthor would. The Lion being the catalyst.

It goes along with the theme where we are not certain of Lions standing by the end of the Heresy. Does he truly join the loyalists, or does he sit it out, waiting for the outcome. From his character so far in the series we can see that he is loyal, but what happens from here up until the siege of Terra, we don't know yet.

ahhhh could be... im just finishing deliverance lost... so i still dont know much about after the heresy... except that it all goes to hell

Upon re-reading it I still believe it is probably referring to Lion'El, but out of curiousity and as I can't remember does anyone know Luther's hair colour?

I doubt they'd be talking about a non-primarch in this scene, but it'd be a hoot if he did have long black hair.

 Rysaer wrote:
Upon re-reading it I still believe it is probably referring to Lion'El, but out of curiousity and as I can't remember does anyone know Luther's hair colour?

I doubt they'd be talking about a non-primarch in this scene, but it'd be a hoot if he did have long black hair.

Luthor was said to be a handsome, powerful man who was basically just a Primarch minus the giantness and utter genius (though he was ALMOST as smart as the Lion).I dont believe his hair color is mentioned, but during the Heresy it was kept short. It is possible that his hair was long and black during his time as a Knight of the Order, though.

Would just be an interesting twist and leading warriors in black could be a nod to 'The Fallen'.

Although I'm pretty firmly in camp Lion'El.