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2014/10/16 20:20:42
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Sigvatr wrote: She didn't ask for death threats. She intentionally asked for emotional responses.
So do you think the email at issue was a "death threat" or an "emotional response"?
It seems a lot of people believe it was actually just an emotional response -- not a "real," "legit," "imminent," or "credible" death threat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nomotog wrote: Are you saying she is being intentionally provocative?
He has already explicitly stated that:
Sigvatr wrote: She intentionally asked for emotional responses.
Manchu, with all due respect could you please settle on an argument train? Only a few pages ago you where having a go at the others for blaming the victim and now you seem to have changed tack.
Its making this discussion hard to keep track of
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2014/10/16 20:22:06
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
We're on the same tack -- namely that "she should expect to be harassed and threatened" is victim blaming.
Sigvatr has straight up admitted he believes Sarkeesian "intentionally asked for emotional response."
It just remains to be seen whether he includes calling her whore, slut, thief, liar, bitch, threatening her with murder and rape, threatening her family, and threatening people who are at an event where she is speaking (regardless of why) in "emotional response."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:24:03
Nobody is responsible for the volunatary actions that others commit. People sending her threats are doing so of their own free will so no Sarkeesian is not responsible for them.
That said, the fact that the statements one makes and the manner in which they are made has a direct impact on the type of responses one gets is an objective truth.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/10/16 20:25:26
Subject: Re:'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted. It benefits her ideological agenda and of course helps fill her personal $$$ coffers to present herself as a Damsel in Distress under siege from a horde of angry "misogynists" for bravely daring to speak out against the misogynist patriarchal video game industry. Shes milking this for all its worth.
She advertised her series on 4chan for god's sake.
Spoiler:
Thats not to say I think death threats are acceptable or that she deserves death threats. Any credible threats must be passed onto the Police, investigated and prosecutions brought where appropriate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:29:42
2014/10/16 20:25:57
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Frazzled wrote: Its very relevant to the discussion in view of the level of demands she made for her security.
No.
Whether or not it is probable that she might receive a threat has no bearing on her demands regarding security precisely because she had in fact received a threat.
YES. I didn't discuss the probabilty of the event occurring. I said that her demands were overblown.
EDIT: we seem to be arguing for argument sake. As my intent was to discuss the level of "security" she was demanding, I've made my point, so will attempt to move on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:30:59
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/10/16 20:26:13
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Prestor Jon wrote: the fact that the statements one makes and the manner in which they are made has a direct impact on the type of responses one gets is an objective truth
Right -- a woman dared to talk critically about gender in video games and that made a "direct impact" -- people have threatened to rape and murder her.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted.
Classic victim blaming -- exactly the sort of thing often said about rape victims.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:27:15
Montreal shooter: Primary goal = suicide.
"He noted that Marc Lépine defined suicide as his primary motivation, and that he chose a specific suicide method: killing one's self after killing others (multiple homicide/suicide strategy) is considered a sign of a serious personality disorder." Read your link a bit more, I still say it was an "excuse" ("Weak" really?)
It will be a truly scary society if the primary reason to be nasty to women is because they are women.
Funny how the news is then able to say this about men in the next bit of your link:
""Yet the defining image of contemporary Canadian maleness is not M Lepine/Gharbi but the professors and the men in that classroom, who, ordered to leave by the lone gunman, meekly did so, and abandoned their female classmates to their fate—an act of abdication that would have been unthinkable in almost any other culture throughout human history." - Newspaper columnist Mark Steyn.
Hindsight is 20-20 but geez, women should not be "expected" to be threatened but the average man is "expected" to attack a suicidal maniac with a gun: hardly fair.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/10/16 20:28:42
Subject: Re:'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted. It benefits her ideological agenda and of course helps fill her personal $$$ coffers to present herself as a Damsel in Distress under siege from a horde of angry "misogynists" for bravely daring to speak out against the misogynist patriarchal video game industry. Shes milking this for all its worth.
She advertised her series on 4chan for god's sake.
Spoiler:
Sorry Manchu but im with this party. Anita has done nothing but spread crap and fill her own wallet with the money of her "supporters"
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2014/10/16 20:31:08
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Forgive the mistakes, I had 15 minutes to write this. See also Annex.
Would you note that if I commit suicide today 89-12-06 it is not for economic reasons (for I have waited until I exhausted all my financial means, even refusing jobs) but for political reasons. Because I have decided to send the feminists, who have always ruined my life, to their Maker. For seven years life has brought me no joy and being totally blasé, I have decided to put an end to those viragos.
I tried in my youth to enter the Forces as an officer cadet, which would have allowed me possibly to get into the arsenal and precede Lortie in a raid. They refused me because asocial [sic]. I therefore had to wait until this day to execute my plans. In between, I continued my studies in a haphazard way for they never really interested me, knowing in advance my fate. Which did not prevent me from obtaining very good marks despite my theory of not handing in work and the lack of studying before exams.
Even if the Mad Killer epithet will be attributed to me by the media, I consider myself a rational erudite that only the arrival of the Grim Reaper has forced to take extreme acts. For why persevere to exist if it is only to please the government. Being rather backward-looking by nature (except for science), the feminists have always enraged me. They want to keep the advantages of women (e.g. cheaper insurance, extended maternity leave preceded by a preventative leave, etc.) while seizing for themselves those of men.
Thus it is an obvious truth that if the Olympic Games removed the Men-Women distinction, there would be Women only in the graceful events. So the feminists are not fighting to remove that barrier. They are so opportunistic they [do not] neglect to profit from the knowledge accumulated by men through the ages. They always try to misrepresent them every time they can. Thus, the other day, I heard they were honoring the Canadian men and women who fought at the frontline during the world wars. How can you explain [that since] women were not authorized to go to the frontline??? Will we hear of Caesar's female legions and female galley slaves who of course took up 50% of the ranks of history, though they never existed. A real Casus Belli.
master of ordinance wrote: Sorry Manchu but im with this party. Anita has done nothing but spread crap and fill her own wallet with the money of her "supporters"
No need to apologize to me for siding with someone who blames the recipient of a death threat for getting a death threat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:31:54
I take it back.
I think I'm awesome First to get to say
BLAME THE VICTIM!!!
Bingo!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/10/16 20:34:46
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
master of ordinance wrote: Sorry Manchu but im with this party. Anita has done nothing but spread crap and fill her own wallet with the money of her "supporters"
No need to apologize to me for siding with someone who blames the recipient of a death threat for getting a death threat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted.
Classic victim blaming -- exactly the sort of thing often said about rape victims.
I wasn't referring to the death threats, rather the vitriolic reaction in general.
So, no. You're wrong.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Thats not to say I think death threats are acceptable or that she deserves death threats. Any credible threats must be passed onto the Police, investigated and prosecutions brought where appropriate.
Anita's primary motivation is $$$.
She knows that there is a lot of money to be made in Professional Victimhood. She knows that if she says something controversial, and attracts the attention of the wrong kind of people (to the point of directly seeking them out on 4chan), she can present herself as a Damsel in Distress, gain a LOT of media attention and sympath, and money will pour in from well meaning supporters and donors who wish to support what they percieve to be a Feminist bravely speaking out against a patriarchal industry - an industry that was already changing and reforming as a response to simple market pressures as more and more women become gamers.
The video game industry is already reforming and improving without any help from Anita.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:40:12
2014/10/16 20:35:19
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
master of ordinance wrote: Sorry Manchu but im with this party. Anita has done nothing but spread crap and fill her own wallet with the money of her "supporters"
No need to apologize to me for siding with someone who blames the recipient of a death threat for getting a death threat.
She advertised on 4chan. That alone would be enough to say she was asking for the wrong sought of attention.
Hell, given her reputation for faking death threats im still half calling bull on this one.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2014/10/16 20:36:23
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Sigvatr wrote: Do you think that there is no difference being merely being famous and intentionally provoking a negative emotional response?
Are you saying she is being intentionally provocative?
Yes. Purposefully mispresenting content and lying to get your stuff right / justify the means is pee-poor and highly offensive / provocative.
I already stated that the death threat most likely was a /b/tard (again: no insult, it's an official term) thinking it's funny and "ok". I believe that there always is variation between two extremes. Do you?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:37:32
Prestor Jon wrote: the fact that the statements one makes and the manner in which they are made has a direct impact on the type of responses one gets is an objective truth
Right -- a woman dared to talk critically about gender in video games and that made a "direct impact" -- people have threatened to rape and murder her.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted.
Classic victim blaming -- exactly the sort of thing often said about rape victims.
It's just a glorfied flame war with 4chan trolls. She confronts the worst aspects of videogaming/the internet and gets a vitriolic response from the people that enjoy those aspects and/or want the attention of harassing her. It's not surprising, it's not pleasant but it's not surprising.
I don't understand why you seem to equate people's lack of surprise that there is gambling taking place in this establishment with condoning the act of threatening to rape and murder women. Nobody is saying that it's ok to threaten to harm Sarkeesian or anyone else, we're just pointing out that a rational person would have foreseen and expected that kind of response from a handful of trolls.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/10/16 20:37:51
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted.
So she asked to be called thief, bitch, whore, and liar; she asked for people to say she deserves to be murdered and raped; but you draw the line at the threat to actually do so, that's what she didn't ask for?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote: we're just pointing out that a rational person would have foreseen and expected that kind of response from a handful of trolls.
Why does that need to be pointed out? No one has said otherwise.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:39:13
She knows that there is a lot of money to be made in Professional Victimhood. She knows that if she says something controversial, and attracts the attention of the wrong kind of people (to the point of directly seeking them out on 4chan), she can present herself as a Damsel in Distress, gain a LOT of media attention and sympath, and money will pour in from well meaning supporters and donors (as seen in her $158,000 Kickstarter) who wish to support what they percieve to be a Feminist bravely speaking out against a patriarchal industry - an industry that was already changing and reforming as a response to simple market pressures as more and more women become gamers.
The video game industry is already reforming and improving without any help from Anita.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 20:41:36
2014/10/16 20:44:38
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Sigvatr wrote: Do you think that there is no difference being merely being famous and intentionally provoking a negative emotional response?
Are you saying she is being intentionally provocative?
Yes. Purposefully mispresenting content and lying to get your stuff right / justify the means is pee-poor and highly offensive / provocative.
I already stated that the death threat most likely was a /b/tard (again: no insult, it's an official term) thinking it's funny and "ok". I believe that there always is variation between two extremes. Do you?
How do you think she is misrepresenting content and lying?
2014/10/16 20:44:57
Subject: Re:'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
She knows that there is a lot of money to be made in Professional Victimhood. She knows that if she says something controversial, and attracts the attention of the wrong kind of people (to the point of directly seeking them out on 4chan), she can present herself as a Damsel in Distress, gain a LOT of media attention and sympath, and money will pour in from well meaning supporters and donors (as seen in her $158,000 Kickstarter) who wish to support what they percieve to be a Feminist bravely speaking out against a patriarchal industry - an industry that was already changing and reforming as a response to simple market pressures as more and more women become gamers.
The video game industry is already reforming and improving without any help from Anita.
Very very true
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2014/10/16 20:47:10
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Sigvatr wrote: Do you think that there is no difference being merely being famous and intentionally provoking a negative emotional response?
Are you saying she is being intentionally provocative?
Yes. Purposefully mispresenting content and lying to get your stuff right / justify the means is pee-poor and highly offensive / provocative.
I already stated that the death threat most likely was a /b/tard (again: no insult, it's an official term) thinking it's funny and "ok". I believe that there always is variation between two extremes. Do you?
How do you think she is misrepresenting content and lying?
We've had this discussion countless times, and its been proven countless times. Instead of repeating that discusion, I suggest you go back and read the previous threads.
2014/10/16 20:52:54
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Forgive the mistakes, I had 15 minutes to write this. See also Annex.
Would you note that if I commit suicide today 89-12-06 it is not for economic reasons (for I have waited until I exhausted all my financial means, even refusing jobs) but for political reasons. Because I have decided to send the feminists, who have always ruined my life, to their Maker. For seven years life has brought me no joy and being totally blasé, I have decided to put an end to those viragos.
I tried in my youth to enter the Forces as an officer cadet, which would have allowed me possibly to get into the arsenal and precede Lortie in a raid. They refused me because asocial [sic]. I therefore had to wait until this day to execute my plans. In between, I continued my studies in a haphazard way for they never really interested me, knowing in advance my fate. Which did not prevent me from obtaining very good marks despite my theory of not handing in work and the lack of studying before exams.
Even if the Mad Killer epithet will be attributed to me by the media, I consider myself a rational erudite that only the arrival of the Grim Reaper has forced to take extreme acts. For why persevere to exist if it is only to please the government. Being rather backward-looking by nature (except for science), the feminists have always enraged me. They want to keep the advantages of women (e.g. cheaper insurance, extended maternity leave preceded by a preventative leave, etc.) while seizing for themselves those of men.
Thus it is an obvious truth that if the Olympic Games removed the Men-Women distinction, there would be Women only in the graceful events. So the feminists are not fighting to remove that barrier. They are so opportunistic they [do not] neglect to profit from the knowledge accumulated by men through the ages. They always try to misrepresent them every time they can. Thus, the other day, I heard they were honoring the Canadian men and women who fought at the frontline during the world wars. How can you explain [that since] women were not authorized to go to the frontline??? Will we hear of Caesar's female legions and female galley slaves who of course took up 50% of the ranks of history, though they never existed. A real Casus Belli.
Just read the silly section on "Search for a rationale". Link here just to be nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre#Marc_L.C3.A9pine I am sure he thought he was perfectly sane.
He had many problems in his past and was looking for a scapegoat.
"Scholars have categorized it as a "pseudo-community" type of "pseudo-commando" murder-suicide, in which the perpetrator targets a specific group, often in a public place, and intends to die in "a blaze of glory"."
Bah, labeling the suicidal with other labels such as women hater still does not compare well with the "average" male population.
I think this thread has been so all over the place I am unsure if there was any point to it.
If it did not have the name Anita Sarkeesian in it, it would have died on the first page.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/10/16 20:53:12
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
The fact that she faked a twitter account and posted the threats?
How is this a verified fact?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/10/16 20:55:47
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
WallofMeat wrote: Campus security I imagine is not quite the same as a state police force when it come to protecting people from gunman.
I mean - imagine it was you - backed up by campus security? - backed up by the police?
(on a separate not - its not clear this wasnt discussed - furthur would a Uni be chill with throwing campus security at this task - I mean I imagine if one of them 'got shot' - employment tribunals, insurance voids ect ect would come into play as this particular duty is probably not the express pervue of this role).
Often times Campus Police are sworn police officers of the local municipality, giving them all the rights and responsibilities of police officers.
2014/10/16 20:58:31
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
The fact that she faked a twitter account and posted the threats?
How is this a verified fact?
It never was. However judging by the evidence taken from the screenshot (the fact that the account was brand new, the tweets had all been posted within minutes of each other and all where perfectly worded and exactly under the character limit, that the grammar was perfect and that when the shot was taken the user had just logged out) it does seem pretty conclusive.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
2014/10/16 20:59:22
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
I am sure he thought he was perfectly sane.
He had many problems in his past and was looking for a scapegoat.
I don't doubt he was crazy and/or morally irresponsible. That doesn't make him any less misogynistic -- which he absolutely was by his own admission. Since his massacre, other misogynists have held him up as a hero. And now we have someone who threatened to imitate his crimes for the same motivation. And you are asking me why we are talking about misogyny?
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Anita knew exactly the sort of responses her belligerent and partisan militant feminist views would provoke, and she got the response she wanted.
So she asked to be called thief, bitch, whore, and liar; she asked for people to say she deserves to be murdered and raped; but you draw the line at the threat to actually do so, that's what she didn't ask for?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote: we're just pointing out that a rational person would have foreseen and expected that kind of response from a handful of trolls.
Why does that need to be pointed out? No one has said otherwise.
If we're in agreement that a reasonably intelligent well adjusted person would have no trouble predicting that Sarkeesian's lectures were going to generate disgusting hate mail and threats directed at her by internet trolls why are you arguing about victim blaming? Some people are choosing to be trolls/tards/whatever towards Sarkeesian because of what she's said/how's she's said it, there's a causal relationship there and it has nothing to do with victim blaming. That she initiatied the "discussion" that's led to her getting threats is an objective fact but I haven't seen any posts saying that she deserves to be threatened.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/10/16 21:00:46
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
Manchu wrote: Maybe part of the issue is the word "expect."
"Expect" can connote something that should be the case:
Example - "I expect my son to do his best in school"
"Expect" can also connote something that probably will be the case:
Example - "I expect the sun will come up tomorrow"
In the first sense -- no one should have to expect death threats because of speaking in public.
In the second sense -- it is realistic for Sarkeesian to expect death theats in a misogynistic culture.
I'm sorry, but is this coming from the same person who earlier in the thread took exception to someone else posting definitions?
Manchu wrote: It is always irritating when people quote the dictionary to me, as if I am not an native speaker and as if dictionaries are complete records of all ideas a language is capable of expressing.
Physician heal thyself
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 21:01:07
