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2014/10/16 21:47:53
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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No you did not because this (which you claim is your response):  Sigvatr wrote:Any sort of death threat isn't justified by any means. It's a criminal act. Hands down. Saying that she should not expect to be harassed after purposefully provoking emotional responses from people is driving with your car, at 250 mph, at night, drunk
is exactly what prompted me to start asking you whether of not the threat she received in this case is just an "emotional response" in your opinion. Is calling her a liar, thief, bitch, whore, etc, an emotional response? Is saying she deserves to be raped and murdered or is someone saying they hope those things happen an emotional response? Where is the line between what you say Sarkeesian "purposefully provoked" and what she didn't?
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2014/10/16 21:50:10
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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 Manchu wrote:No you did not because this (which you claim is your response): Sigvatr wrote:Any sort of death threat isn't justified by any means. It's a criminal act. Hands down. Saying that she should not expect to be harassed after purposefully provoking emotional responses from people is driving with your car, at 250 mph, at night, drunk
is exactly what prompted me to start asking you whether of not the threat she received in this case is just an "emotional response" in your opinion. Is calling her a liar, thief, bitch, whore, etc, an emotional response? Is saying she deserves to be raped and murdered or is someone saying they hope those things happen an emotional response? Where is the line between what you say Sarkeesian "purposefully provoked" and what she didn't?
What line? I draw no line. She KNEW she would get death threats, and she KNEW an hate campaign would be beneficial to her media image, her career, and her business.
One who does not purposefully wish to provoke trolling should not seek out those Trolls on 4chan. Which Anita did.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 21:51:01
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2014/10/16 21:50:19
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I'd like to point out that the Dobson threats against Anita were almost identical to the ones Wu got were both analyzed and stated to be 94% female in origin. Not concrete evidence, but that's awfully coincidental with the rumblings that the lizard squad is running around.
She works for a PR company that has proven to be manipulating the media. It is backed by a new York millionaires son who works in AAA gaming who can only be described as a lunatic.
That and her last round of threats was met with her tweeting it first before going to police, within hours she asked for donations. http://www.staresattheworld.com/2014/09/anita-sarkeesian-fabricate-story-contacting-authorities/
She has been profiteering off the negativity her incendiary beliefs cause. This has launched her into the mainstream media. Basically a huge TROLL in it for the money. And no one will question it but instead feed her more money outright to aid her in her pursue. That's the easiest way, to feed off people's sympathy.
I call her character into question. Not her gender.
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2014/10/16 21:50:47
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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 easysauce wrote:
What IS being said is that these individuals actions do not allow you to broadly label the whole culture as misogynistic .
Wait, are you telling me my belief all Muslims are terrorists based on the actions a few is wrong?!?!
Yes, that's sarcasm.
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2014/10/16 21:51:24
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Is there any evidence whatsoever that she actually did this?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 21:51:55
 lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
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2014/10/16 21:52:32
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote:Prestor Jon wrote:So you agree that it was probable for Sarkeesian to get threats but think it's wrong for people to say she should expect to get threats?
Here's what I am saying: Manchu wrote:The probability of Sarkeesian being harassed and receiving death threats has never been an issue ITT. But even so many have posted again and again that "she should expect this." Why is this being posted?
It is for the same reason people say rape victims should expect to be raped based on where they are or what they are dressed in. It is a "she asked for it" argument.
Manchu wrote:I believe that the probability of a famous person receiving threats is irrelevant to this discussion. No one has said receiving the threat was improbable.
The only remaining reason to state "she should expect harassment and death threats" is to justify them/blame her for them.
Manchu wrote:After all -- NO ONE, not Sarkeesian, and no one here, and no one ever so far as I have seen, has argued that Sarkeesian -- or any one else for that matter -- is surprised at being harassed and receiving death threats. No one has said she did not think it was a realistic possibility.
Manchu wrote:I believe everyone posting "she should expect to be harassed and threatened" is basically justifying the harassment and threats. Those kind of statement serve no other purpose.
Ok. Well speaking for myself I think it's logical to believe that She got death threats? I'm not surpirsed =/= It's her fault she got death threats. She deserves them.
Trolls are gonna troll so when then they spew out over the top melodramatic threats I'm not surprised. Anita is repsonsible for everything she chooses to say, post, tweet, etc. Trolls are responsible for everything they say, post, tweet, etc. You're the one, by your own admission, that's trying to shoehorn the question of blame into the observation that this behavior is not surprising.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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2014/10/16 21:53:45
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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 Ouze wrote:
Is there any evidence whatsoever that she actually did this?
Yes. Her post on 4chan.
And you will no doubt respond "Prove that it was Anita Sarkeesian".
To which I will respond "Prove that it wasn't Anita Sarkeesian".
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 21:54:47
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2014/10/16 21:54:15
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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It doesn't matter how many times you do it because it is not a counterargument to this point: Saying Sarkeesian asked for this harassment and these threats is similar to saying rape vitcims were asking to be raped (because of where they were, who they were with, what they were wearing) inasmuch as both victim-blaming arguments are motivated by the same thing -- misogyny. Prestor Jon wrote:You're the one, by your own admission, that's trying to shoehorn the question of blame into the observation that this behavior is not surprising.
I gave you an example of me saying the same thing in three different ways and you still don't understand so I'm going to say it's probable that a fourth attempt will not help.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 21:56:24
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2014/10/16 21:56:32
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Which one? Can you show me?
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
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2014/10/16 21:57:25
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Where is the line between what you say Sarkeesian "purposefully provoked" and what she didn't?
What line? I draw no line. She KNEW she would get death threats, and she KNEW an hate campaign would be beneficial to her media image, her career, and her business.
So she was asking for death threats? Automatically Appended Next Post: WTF?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:05:31
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2014/10/16 22:03:46
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Yes. Google. Or the previous Anita Sarkeesian threads on this forum.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:04:28
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2014/10/16 22:06:47
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Fireknife Shas'el
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 Slarg232 wrote:nomotog wrote: Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:nomotog wrote: Sigvatr wrote:nomotog wrote: Sigvatr wrote:Do you think that there is no difference being merely being famous and intentionally provoking a negative emotional response?
Are you saying she is being intentionally provocative?
Yes. Purposefully mispresenting content and lying to get your stuff right / justify the means is pee-poor and highly offensive / provocative.
I already stated that the death threat most likely was a /b/tard (again: no insult, it's an official term) thinking it's funny and "ok". I believe that there always is variation between two extremes. Do you?
How do you think she is misrepresenting content and lying?
We've had this discussion countless times, and its been proven countless times. Instead of repeating that discusion, I suggest you go back and read the previous threads.
No. I mean I do understand that makes me sound like some kind of nasty word, but no I'm not going to go and look it up. I don't care to poor through the dozens and dozens of threads on Ania. I won't do that and to be fair I wouldn't make anyone else do that. (If you want, your welcome to throw this statement back in my face should I slip up and tell you or someone else to look something up.)
Using only one example:
She claims that Hitman: Absolution allows you to be able to desecrate a womens bodies and that the game supports you to derive perverse pleasure in the doing of such. This is all because one of the missions takes place in a strip club, and there are girls in the back that you walk past.
Problems with this statement:
- You are deducted points for killing those women; the game actively discourages you from killing them.
- The only way to get those points back is to hide the bodies, after which you cannot pull them back out; you are actively encouraged to get RID of the bodies, not to play with them.
- Out of the top 20 Youtube Let's Plays of the game, only one played with the bodies; it's not a common occurance.
So the game neither supports it, nore are people compelled to do so.
The game lets you do it. Is that not support? I actually mean that as a question. There is a lot of ambiguity in what a game supports. I can see arguments to be made that if a game lets you do something then it is supporting it. After all it gave you the place and ability to do it when it didn't have to. (Skyrim doesn't let you kill kids because they don't want to support that kind of play. ) On the other end, you are argue that because the game punishes you for doing something that means it doesn't support it after all your told don't do that. It's like giving someone a citrate and then saying "Now make sure you don't smoke."
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2014/10/16 22:11:29
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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That's a no, then? I certainly could not find it on Google, and I looked.
I mean, I've seen this idea before - that she "brought it on herself" by "trolling on 4chan". For something that gets repeated so often, I'm having a really hard time finding, like, screenshots of the posts in question.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:13:49
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
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2014/10/16 22:13:29
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:
That's a no, then? I certainly could not find it on Google, and I looked.
I'd be interested in seeing that too... if Ouze can't find it... not sure if I can. Ouze is rank level Sensei in Google-fu.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2014/10/16 22:15:26
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote:
Saying Sarkeesian asked for this harassment and these threats is similar to saying rape vitcims were asking to be raped (because of where they were, who they were with, what they were wearing) inasmuch as both victim-blaming arguments are motivated by the same thing -- misogyny.
It doesn't matter whether you, personally, consider it not to matter. It still is incredibly offensive and bm, further insisting on your point that is proven to be offensive is...debatable.
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2014/10/16 22:17:07
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Manchu wrote:What line? I draw no line. She KNEW she would get death threats, and she KNEW an hate campaign would be beneficial to her media image, her career, and her business.
So she was asking for death threats?
She wanted it, yes. Because she financially benefits from all the negative publicity.
You keep on describing this as "She was asking for death threats" and insisting on drawing this silly hyperbolic analogy to Rape victims "asking for it".
Rape victims don't have a financial incentive to be raped.
Whereas Anita runs a business. She holds tele-seminars, makes media appearences, works for and with a PR company (Silver String), makes large amounts of money via Kickstarter and donations on her website. Being subjected to an internet hate campaign raises her media profile, garners sympathy for her and her views, and brings the $$$ rolling in.
Thats not to say that these death threats are justified. THEY'RE NOT. I don't think ANYBODY in a free democratic society should be subjected to death threats no matter what they say, because everyone has the right to free speech. Hell, I don't even think somebody who expresses support for ISIS should be threatened with violence. I hope those making genuine death threats are investigated and prosecuted (as indeed has happened in numerous high profile cases in recent years in the United Kingdom as a result of a crackdown on internet trolling).
But what Anita is doing is the equivalent of getting in somebody's face, verbally abusing and provoking them, then crying foul when that person whallops you in the face. Violently attacking you is wrong, and should be punished with the full force of the law, but deliberately provoking that reaction is wrong too.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:17:44
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2014/10/16 22:17:51
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 whembly wrote: Ouze wrote:
That's a no, then? I certainly could not find it on Google, and I looked.
I'd be interested in seeing that too... if Ouze can't find it... not sure if I can. Ouze is rank level Sensei in Google-fu.
It was back in 2013... iirc. I'd get diggin'.
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2014/10/16 22:19:27
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Manchu wrote:It doesn't matter how many times you do it because it is not a counterargument to this point:
We disagree.
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2014/10/16 22:20:18
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Fixture of Dakka
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whembly wrote: Ouze wrote:
That's a no, then? I certainly could not find it on Google, and I looked.
I'd be interested in seeing that too... if Ouze can't find it... not sure if I can. Ouze is rank level Sensei in Google-fu.
For those unfamilar with how 4Chan, and image boards like it... Threads are not kept around 'forever' like on a traditional forum (such as Dakka), each board on 4chan has 10 pages of 10 threads. Once a thread would end up on the 11th page, it is pruned and gone 'forever'. When a thread hits around 300 posts it 'auto sages', which means that new posts do not bump it up. Some threads are sent to an archive site, I do not know if /v/ has one. Sometimes someone will screen shot a thread for whatever reason, and that will end up getting reposted somewhere.
The Mods on /v/ grew tired of GamerGate threads pretty quickly and started deleting them pretty quickly, along with anything related to 'gamer celebrities' like Anita.
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2014/10/16 22:21:03
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Here's a first: http://archive.moe/v/thread/139813364 Iirc it was her or a close co-worker, idk exactly. Memory...
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:24:08
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2014/10/16 22:21:52
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Manchu wrote:What line? I draw no line. She KNEW she would get death threats, and she KNEW an hate campaign would be beneficial to her media image, her career, and her business.
So she was asking for death threats?
She wanted it, yes. Because she financially benefits from all the negative publicity.
You keep on describing this as "She was asking for death threats" and insisting on drawing this silly hyperbolic analogy to Rape victims " asking for it".
Rape victims don't have a financial incentive to be raped.
Whereas Anita runs a business. She holds tele-seminars, makes media appearences, works for and with a PR company (Silver String), makes large amounts of money via Kickstarter and donations on her website. Being subjected to an internet hate campaign raises her media profile, garners sympathy for her and her views, and brings the $$$ rolling in.
Thats not to say that these death threats are justified. THEY'RE NOT. I don't think ANYBODY in a free democratic society should be subjected to death threats no matter what they say, because everyone has the right to free speech. Hell, I don't even think somebody who expresses support for ISIS should be threatened with violence. I hope those making genuine death threats are investigated and prosecuted (as indeed has happened in numerous high profile cases in recent years in the United Kingdom as a result of a crackdown on internet trolling).
But what Anita is doing is the equivalent of getting in somebody's face, verbally abusing and provoking them, then crying foul when that person whallops you in the face. Violently attacking you is wrong, and should be punished with the full force of the law, but deliberately provoking that reaction is wrong too.
Kinda sorta like pundit's hate mail?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/10/dana-loesch-holds-dramatic-hate-mail-reading-during-show-premiere/
She seems to have a financial interest in that. I'm sure she didn't ask for it... but, isn't it like taking a lemon and turn into lemonade sorta thing?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
K... I'll read it at home then. 
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:22:59
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2014/10/16 22:23:46
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Sigvatr wrote: Manchu wrote:Saying Sarkeesian asked for this harassment and these threats is similar to saying rape vitcims were asking to be raped (because of where they were, who they were with, what they were wearing) inasmuch as both victim-blaming arguments are motivated by the same thing -- misogyny.
It doesn't matter whether you, personally, consider it not to matter. It still is incredibly offensive and bm, further insisting on your point that is proven to be offensive is...debatable.
There is no reasonable, good faith explanation for being offended by this comparison. The comparison is valid -- blaming a woman for receiving death threats is as misogynistic as blaming a woman for being raped. So case in point: It's actually pretty common to attribute motive of greed or attention seeking to rape victims.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:27:24
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2014/10/16 22:31:46
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote:There is no reasonable, good faith explanation for being offended by this comparison
...that you see. The comparison is valid -- blaming a woman for receiving death threats is as misogynistic as blaming a woman for being raped.
Let alone the fact that a lot of hate she gets isn't because she's a woman, but because she's desperately looking for attention by presenting misinformation, lying etc. There's a more fitting general term for it, but since it contains a fascist term, I don't wanna give you reasons. If you posted stuff like her, I'd hate you just as much as her. You would not get the same amount of attention, however, as you're not a woman and cannot hide behind "feminism". You still don't (want to?) understand why your statement is so offensive. Not a SINGLE woman will dress up sexy, go out looking to get raped. NO such woman is ASKING to get molested, harassed or even raped. Anita purposefully stirs up hatred. She WANTS to get (negative) attention. Death threats (as rare as they are) are a part of this. Your problem is that: a) You don't seem to see the difference between those two cases. b) You seem to assume that it being logical to get negative attention immediately means that it's justified to so people. Do you really need the rape comparison to make a point?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:33:38
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2014/10/16 22:35:09
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Manchu wrote:If you posted stuff like her, I'd hate you just as much as her.
There are plenty of men posting similar things to Sarkeesian. I have not seen even one thread about them. Sigvatr wrote:Anita purposefully stirs up hatred. She WANTS to get (negative) attention. Death threats (as rare as they are) are a part of this.
Sarkeesian wants death threats? Okay thanks for finally saying it clearly.
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2014/10/16 22:35:26
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Thanks, I tried Foolz but came up empty.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
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2014/10/16 22:35:50
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote:Sarkeesian wants death threats? Okay thanks for finally saying it clearly.
Do you need to twist another user's words to make your point?
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2014/10/16 22:36:34
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Manchu wrote:: It's actually pretty common to attribute motive of greed or attention seeking to rape victims.
The difference being that with Rape victims, the accusation is false.
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2014/10/16 22:39:16
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Sigvatr wrote: Manchu wrote:Sarkeesian wants death threats? Okay thanks for finally saying it clearly.
Do you need to twist another user's words to make your point?
Did I misinterpret you here? Sigvatr wrote:Anita purposefully stirs up hatred. She WANTS to get (negative) attention. Death threats (as rare as they are) are a part of this.
By all means, clarify your point that death threats are part of the negative attention that Sarkeesian wants.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:41:24
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2014/10/16 22:40:07
Subject: 'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Fireknife Shas'el
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And no I'm not Anita. Glad you like the videos, though!
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2014/10/16 22:42:48
Subject: Re:'Massacre' threat forces Anita Sarkeesian to cancel university appearance
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Well, it hardly matters, does it? It was presented that she "trolled" 4chan, and what appears to have happened - even if it were her, which the poster says is not - what happened was she mentioned the series, answered a few questions politely, and that was it - on the V board, not B. So, 2 assertions, two misses.
Still counts though, right?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 22:43:29
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
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40IK - PP Conversion Project Files
