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Hey there. We've got a newcomer CSM player in our LGS. He's asked me to help him out with his CSM.

Here's what he's got:

15 CSM
11 Berserkers
8 Plague Marines
Helbrute
40 Cultists
3 CSM Bikers

He also has 3 Dark Angel bikers, Blackreach Terminators and a few Tacticals which he'll be able to proxy as something else. We have spare display rhinos in our LGS that he could use during the game.

So, that's what i've proposed for 1250:



The list is oriented at mid-board controle. Abaddon deepstrikes with oblies, cultists tie up the dangerous stuff. I know that Abaddon is not an outstanding HQ for smaller games, but he's gona be able to create a bauble of shock and awe where needed - if he manages to arrive. In all fairness, that's the only use i could think of for him without a landraider. But i'd rather have a sorc deepstriking with oblits + meltabikers for the leftover points. That's another possible list. Besides, Sork might be able to generate some useful warlord trait and some telepathy goodness.

So, Abaddon and 1 cultist exchanged for:
Sorcerror [Terminator armor, Spell Familliar, ML3]
2 Bikes [MON, 2 meltas] + Champion [MON, Combi-melta]
Suggestions?

Nurgle Lord on bike, pf+lc. Ride with the remaining 5 bikers (convert da bikers)

Turn berserkers into plague by repaint green or orange rust.
Turn csm into plague marines

Have 6 squads of 5-7plague marines. If you have rhinos, give the occupants pair of meltaguns. The rest of the squads get plasmagun pairs and foot slog. If you have points left over then get melta bombs.

Turn all termi into oblitz. MoN

Helcult formation.

Why not regular csm? I think it's a good core. Besides, you don't want to be loaded with only plague marines when the new codex comes. It's a trend that there's no slot swap now.
CSM ranged damage output is identical to plague marines but you basically can fit another squad for every 2. Yep, they're less durable, but not that squishy with rhinos, 3+ armor and ld9.

And about the biker lord. He currently has Abaddon and asfar as i know, you can't put him on a bike. Besides, that'd be a single fast assaulty unit in the whole list. Single assault units don't tend to work quite well from my experience. Mellee needs redundancy.

 Filch wrote:
Nurgle Lord on bike, pf+lc. Ride with the remaining 5 bikers (convert da bikers)

Turn berserkers into plague by repaint green or orange rust.
Turn csm into plague marines

Have 6 squads of 5-7plague marines. If you have rhinos, give the occupants pair of meltaguns. The rest of the squads get plasmagun pairs and foot slog. If you have points left over then get melta bombs.

Turn all termi into oblitz. MoN

Helcult formation.

o.O plague marines aren't that great man and MoN doesn't win games.

x7 CSMs

x7 CSMs

x8 Plague Marines

x6 Bikers

x20 cultists
+
Chaso Lord with PW

x20 cultists
+
Chaos Lord with PW

Helbrute with either twin linked las or MM

That should leave you enough points left over for special weapons and marks on the CSMs and bikers. I would advise him to invest in the Chaos battleforce if he is serious, It comes with x10 CSMs x5 possessed x3 Bikers and a Rhino and I think its around $100

^Agree with Jack. While PM have their uses they wont win you games straight out. I tend to roll with 10 man squads of CSM, 2 meltas, rhino w/ dirge, and a PW or PF on the champ and the chaos undivided banner for fearless. (I run Nightlords so I tend the keep any marks for my elite units, if at all).

If you do plan on taking bikers, at least put Nurgle on them though, if your going to drop major points on bikers, at least do it right.

Also spend 5 points and put the dirge caster on everything you can. That way when your lord or Abaddon charges hes not eating a face full of lead before he gets there.

 koooaei wrote:
Why not regular csm? I think it's a good core. Besides, you don't want to be loaded with only plague marines when the new codex comes. It's a trend that there's no slot swap now.
CSM ranged damage output is identical to plague marines but you basically can fit another squad for every 2. Yep, they're less durable, but not that squishy with rhinos, 3+ armor and ld9.

And about the biker lord. He currently has Abaddon and asfar as i know, you can't put him on a bike. Besides, that'd be a single fast assaulty unit in the whole list. Single assault units don't tend to work quite well from my experience. Mellee needs redundancy.

When did i say Abaddon on bike? I said Nurgle Lord on a bike! And i stated he ride with the other nurgle Bikers.

He has berserkers which are not that great so i suggested an easy conversion to make them plague marines.

CSM 3+ save die to mass ap3. With a higher toughness they wont be instant death by s8 and the fnp can help them with gets hot plasmaguns and failing saves. Also pm are fearless. So many times when ld9 fails! Also blight grenades are worth it over bolter shot damage. Also plague knives can poison any mc!

And when is the new dex coming out? That is a flawed argument because he wants a good army now not when the dex comes out. If i knew what would the 6th ed csm would have i would have a switched to another army. 6Th ed csm, more like 6th ed Chaos Cultist! IN 5th ed i loaded up on kb because it was the best decision at the time. I should have loaded up on noise and double lash prince if i knew they nerfed kb and assault in 6th ed to 7 th ed.

Does this guy want to go out and buy more csm? Then dont listen to me trying to save you money.

Jackflash ,who would run 7 cm? U either run 10 to get pair of melta or plasma or you run minimal 5 to just fulfill compulsory. Even lunchmonkey runs squads of 10 men csm!
And he could argue that a single units cant win you the game but i would like to point out wave serpent n their shield blast. Also the pm are there to occupy obj. While the rest of the army kills. I suggest many pm because he has many csm bodies n not much else. A helbrute and a few bikers?

Thanks for the feedbacks. We'll try to find out what works best. As for now, he wants to use Abaddon as it is cause he has the model.

Plague marines are great objective holders - nothing to argue here. However, can they be troops with just Abaddon?

Nope need a nurgle lord.

Even if Abaddon unlocks Chosen as troops, dont do it because they die like regular marine and are more expensive. They get more special weapons but they wont be alive to shoot.

 Filch wrote:
Even if Abaddon unlocks Chosen as troops, dont do it because they die like regular marine and are more expensive. They get more special weapons but they wont be alive to shoot.

He has Abaddon and wants to use him. Preferably as effective as possible.

Well then have fun. I tried a chosen army with aba, i dont recommended it. Maybe 1 or 2 squads of chosen n the rest are cultist or csm. @1250 there is not much room.

At large points i used aba in a lr with dirge caster with 8 chosen MoK n IoW , and pow sword not on champion. I butchered so much ! 8 chosen with base attack 2 and ccw+bolt pistol bonus 1 attack and 1 additional bonus for the charge! = 32 attacks! Khorne Berserkers get 1 less attack because their base attack is only 1!

At low points you gotta use deepstriking termi wit aba. I have seen people put Typhus with a large blob of cultist, so you might be able to use that for aba.

He also considers Cypher later on.
As for me, i'd really like to see 20-strong slaanesh marins with a FNP icon with Huron's infiltrate and cypher + plazma-chosen. Maybe even put Cypher in there.
But the list definitely needs to be built around this combo. With spawns, bikers, maulerfiends, etc.