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Sorry so you agree that the -1T has to be done. Yet also if they have no T value then you just ignore it? Is that correct?

...............................

so really you just wanted to ask 1 question?

If -1 toughness has been done to a model with no toughness the effect isn't ignored by the RAW. At the same time you cannot modify a value that isn't there, so effect resolved, the model is enfeebled and should it need to do anything with Toughness that value is at -1 for the turn, but as that will never happen it doesn't really matter. It's like underwear gnomes, collect underwear>???>>profit. enfeeble vehicle>>??>>its -1 Toughness for all those thing it needs a toughness characteristic for, which is none. Ironically Enfeeble would reduce walker strength by 1, and makes the vehicle count terrain as difficult so not that bad.

None of that has anything to do with something that is required to roll to hit having an effect without hitting.

the malediction doesn't hit, or auto hit, or roll to hit, Psychic shriek does need to roll to hit, and as per the rules for rolling to hit it cannot auto hit.

shriek is a weird word when you look at it.

Blaktoof - your concession is accepted, as you haven't found those rules you keep claiming are there.

You also don't understand strawman argument. No one has created an easy to defeat argument, claimed it is yours, and defeated it. What we have done is pointed out your entire lack of rules support.

please cite where resolution of non to wound rolls requires a succesful to hit. Page and graph. Or, you could bluster some more, claiming mythical insults are present without managing to cite any, and generally avoid following the tenets.

Yes PS does not autohit no one is claiming it does.

However you're now claiming that you can resolve the -1T against the vehicle. Lets say I then cast Haemmorage on the vehicle what T is it for the toughness test? Which you must roll?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
There is no right answer. Anyone claiming the answer to be simple or obvious is writing out of arrogance or ignorance.


As it stands the rulebook does not clarify the issue, therefore houserule it to your own liking.

These two statements are completely false.

There is a RAW answer for this one, people are just not accepting it.

As it stands the rule-book could do a better job of clarifying the issue, but it does clarify the issue if you do a little reading and comprehension of all relevant rules.

RAW says witchfires roll to hit. RAW says psychic shriek rolls 3D6-LD for determining number of wounds, but nothing about determining how many shots.

I personally play the power as you are saying, however there is still no clear RAW answer to this question. Nowhere does it say "instead of rolling to hit", therefore the issue of the power still being a witchfire remains.

Which is not a question at all.

It is the same as manifesting enfeeble against a vehicle. You ignore the -1T because vehicles donot have a toughness value, just like you ignore the roll to hit because PS does not have a profile to tell you how many dice you need to roll to hit.

If you make up a number of dice to roll, you would also have to make up a T value for a vehicle when it is hit with enfeeble, to be consistent in the ruling.

blaktoof wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
despite the fact I think there is no RAW way to resolve the power.

it is always amazing how much the strawman arguements put forth that it goes off despite not hitting come out, they never are backed up with any RAW statements and never refute the central point of needing to roll to hit and are always laced with insults and the lowest form of debate.

Always laced with insults? Cite them. It should be easy since they're always there.
Does it say to roll if you hit? Oh - it doesn't. It just says to roll. So not rolling would mean you're not resolving the power according to the instructions in its entry. Where's your permission (actual rules quote please) to skip the resolution?

following that line all witch fires hit without a successful to hit roll is the problem that is not refuted by people who resolve the power without rolling to hit, or by rolling to hit and discarding the to hit roll.

Nope, that's not true at all. You're told what to do with weapons with a profile. They generate X number of hits resolved with Y strength and special rules.
Weapons without a profile are far less defined - which is what's been said.

the list of steps does not require a to hit roll for any witchfire, so yes it is a strawman argument to throw that list up and state it resolves because list, and ignore that required to hit roll.

No, you don't understand what strawman arguments are.
edit: And again, no citation of the "always there" insults. And no actual rules quotes. Cool.

A useless merry-go-round.

The issue is clear. People just don't want to roll their crappy BS after dumping Warp Dice. I don't blame them. Currently, Psychic Phase is very unreliable. To have a power succeed on Warp generation, avoid Perils, pass Deny the Witch, just to be thwarted by one BS die roll is painful.

If only GW cared about its customers...

Do not assign bias where there is none...

I play marines so I don't have a crappy BS...

Not that it would influence me if I had a BS2, I would argue the same way, because that is how the rules are written.

Likewise I'm running AstraDar at the moment with no Psykers at all. People arguing for not performing the roll to hit are simply arguing because that is what the rules say happens. If anyone has questionable motives it is those arguing that you make up rules to cover this 1 specific unresolvable event yet in every single other incident of an unresolvable event they follow our reasoning. It absolutely beggars belief that people could read what's been posted here yet still claim that the roll 1 dice to hit interpretation has any reasonable grounds at all.

 Farseer Pef wrote:
A useless merry-go-round.

The issue is clear. People just don't want to roll their crappy BS after dumping Warp Dice. I don't blame them. Currently, Psychic Phase is very unreliable. To have a power succeed on Warp generation, avoid Perils, pass Deny the Witch, just to be thwarted by one BS die roll is painful.

If only GW cared about its customers...

I suggest you refrain from assigning bias to posters you've never met, and with no idea of the armies they play. My main army is Khorne, no psykers.

I also have GK, which only ever use Santic.

THsi is simply how the rules actually work.

rigeld2 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
despite the fact I think there is no RAW way to resolve the power.

it is always amazing how much the strawman arguements put forth that it goes off despite not hitting come out, they never are backed up with any RAW statements and never refute the central point of needing to roll to hit and are always laced with insults and the lowest form of debate.

Always laced with insults? Cite them. It should be easy since they're always there.
And I think you don't understand what "strawman" arguments are.

Spoiler:

Manifesting Psychic Powers Sequence
1. Select Psyker and Psychic Power. Unless you have 0 Warp Charge points remaining, select one of your Psyker units, then nominate a psychic power known to that unit that you wish to manifest.
2. Declare Target. If the power requires a target, choose it at this point.
3. Take Psychic Test. The Psyker must now expend Warp Charge points and attempt to harness them by taking a Psychic test. If the test is failed, the psychic power fails and nothing further happens. If two or more 6s are rolled, the Psyker suffers Perils of the Warp, which is resolved immediately.
4. Deny the Witch. If the Psychic test was passed, one of the enemy targets gets a chance to expend Warp Charge points to nullify the power by taking a Deny the Witch test. If the psychic power does not target an enemy unit, your opponent can still attempt to Deny the Witch, but will not be able to use any bonuses. In either case, if the Deny the Witch test is passed, the psychic power does not manifest and nothing further happens.
5. Resolve Psychic Power. Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the power was not negated by a successful Deny the Witch test, it is now resolved.

What's step 5 again?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Okay - we have to resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. That's easy! Let's go look at Shriek's entry!

Spoiler:

PSYCHIC SHRIEK - Warp Charge 1
The psyker breathes in deeply the power of the Warp before emitting a banshee howl of psychic energy that shreds the minds of his enemies.
Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.

Does it say to roll if you hit? Oh - it doesn't. It just says to roll. So not rolling would mean you're not resolving the power according to the instructions in its entry. Where's your permission (actual rules quote please) to skip the resolution?

This got me thinking that I am actully wrong here. As it is, there is a built-in check already to see if you hit, and that is the 3d6-ld check. Wonder why I did not think of this earlier until I read this. Looking at it from this perspective, if you roll e.g. 8 vs ld of 10 you failed the roll / missed and do not get to cause wounds.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Sorry so you agree that the -1T has to be done. Yet also if they have no T value then you just ignore it? Is that correct?

Could you stop bringing this one up? It has no relevance whatsoever to this.

A and T are both alphabets but they are not the same. That you even suggest we should agree that -T can be applied to something with no T value is quite frankly beyond silly.

rigeld2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Manifesting Psychic Powers Sequence
1. Select Psyker and Psychic Power. Unless you have 0 Warp Charge points remaining, select one of your Psyker units, then nominate a psychic power known to that unit that you wish to manifest.
2. Declare Target. If the power requires a target, choose it at this point.
3. Take Psychic Test. The Psyker must now expend Warp Charge points and attempt to harness them by taking a Psychic test. If the test is failed, the psychic power fails and nothing further happens. If two or more 6s are rolled, the Psyker suffers Perils of the Warp, which is resolved immediately.
4. Deny the Witch. If the Psychic test was passed, one of the enemy targets gets a chance to expend Warp Charge points to nullify the power by taking a Deny the Witch test. If the psychic power does not target an enemy unit, your opponent can still attempt to Deny the Witch, but will not be able to use any bonuses. In either case, if the Deny the Witch test is passed, the psychic power does not manifest and nothing further happens.
5. Resolve Psychic Power. Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the power was not negated by a successful Deny the Witch test, it is now resolved.

What's step 5 again?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

Okay - we have to resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. That's easy! Let's go look at Shriek's entry!

Spoiler:

PSYCHIC SHRIEK - Warp Charge 1
The psyker breathes in deeply the power of the Warp before emitting a banshee howl of psychic energy that shreds the minds of his enemies.
Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.

Does it say to roll if you hit? Oh - it doesn't. It just says to roll. So not rolling would mean you're not resolving the power according to the instructions in its entry. Where's your permission (actual rules quote please) to skip the resolution?

As Blaktoof has already posted, you cannot claim that "the power has been successfully manifested" above applies to all Psychic powers. If they did, all Witchfires would Auto-Hit. The rules you have quoted above are the general rules.
Witchfires have specific rules. Those being:

So, "Witchfire powers are shooting attacks". How do you resolve them?
Shooting sequence.

What happens at the To Hit phase if you fail To Hit?
No To Wound phase.

As for the age-old excuse:

 DeathReaper wrote:
If you make up a number of dice to roll, you would also have to make up a T value for a vehicle when it is hit with enfeeble, to be consistent in the ruling.

When has a To Hit roll of 1 been made up?
Making up a T value is indeed "making up" a rule, obviously not allowed.

Naw wrote:
This got me thinking that I am actully wrong here. As it is, there is a built-in check already to see if you hit, and that is the 3d6-ld check. Wonder why I did not think of this earlier until I read this. Looking at it from this perspective, if you roll e.g. 8 vs ld of 10 you failed the roll / missed and do not get to cause wounds.

I am quite sure that is indeed the RaI of it. Psychic Shriek just needs to be a Malediction... But by RaW, it is only trouble, that's a certainty.

 BlackTalos wrote:
As Blaktoof has already posted, you cannot claim that "the power has been successfully manifested" above applies to all Psychic powers. If they did, all Witchfires would Auto-Hit.

Not true. What are the " effects according to the instructions in its entry"?
Oh, it's a profile. Profiles have a number of shots that need to hit. I've addressed this with blaktoof, perhaps you read that post?

What happens at the To Hit phase if you fail To Hit?
No To Wound phase.

Correct. Absolutely correct. 100% inarguable.
Psychic Shriek does not roll To Wound. Ever.

BlackTalos


The roll to hit is defined as is the roll to wound. It is impossible to resolve either of those rolls for PS due to lack of a profile. So why stop at making up rules to roll to hit? Why not make up a profile to roll to wound on too? No one on your side has ever been able to answer this. 

Lets assume it is assault 1 for a second and has a profile. Guess what the 3d6-ld wounds still occurs regardless of that roll to hit. Why? Because literally NOTHING in the rules links the 2 effects. So why again link it to the roll to hit why not link it to the roll to wound? Or link it to a failed save? Why arbitrarily link it to a successful hit? Again no one on your side of the argument has been able to answer this. 

Lets see how you handle similar situations. Lets say I manifest Haemmorage and target a vehicle. The toughness test roll is well defined, impossible to auto pass and required to happen. However the vehicle lacks the relevant profile. So do you set it to T1 or say it has no effect? 

Once you've resolved your T1 test and it fails you then have a wound on the vehicle. However the vehicle has no woubds characteristic so do you say it is uneffected by wounds or set it to W1 and remove it as a casualty?

Also the roll to hit before you resolve crowd how does this work for say Smite. The effect of Smite is to fire an Assault 4 S4 Ap2 shooting attack. Do I:

1) roll once to hit if I do then make the shooting attack and if I miss I do jot resolve the power
2) roll 4 dice to hit and resolve an Assault 4 S4 Ap2 shooting attack for each hit (potentially 16 shots).
3) roll 4 dice if I miss once then the power is cancelled or if I hit all 4 times then resolve the Assault4 S4 Ap2 shooting attack?

I just don't get it at all.

This thread should be locked already it has gone no where like the nth threads before it on the same topic. This is not the fault of the posters, but the general consensus can see that the rules for PS are incomplete within the context of the rest of the rules for actually using a witchfire psychic power against a target.

facts-

PS is a witchfire- it requires a to hit roll
speculation- how many dice to roll

The general psychic rules do not call for a to hit roll
the specific rules for witch fires require a to hit roll
specific overrides general
otherwise every witchfire would resolve its effect despite missing or the result of the to hit roll as it is not part of the general steps in resolving a psychic power.

speculation- you can resolve the effect of a power that requires a to hit roll without rolling to hit or when missing

nothing within the rule for PS states you may do so, and no one can state a RAW passage from any of the pertinent rules section that you may resolve effects for things that require to hit rolls even if they miss.

arguments that 1 dice is rolling to hit- strawman, no RAW support in shooting, psychic, or PS rules.

arguments that effect happens despite to hit roll- strawman, no RAW support in shooting, psychic, or PS rules.

arguments that you do not need to roll to hit- goes against RAW, just plain false.


anyone in this thread that says "this is how it works" is a HYWPI argument.

lets lock this thread and be done with it until next month again.

Broad declarations that because your argument was debunked that the rules are broken and don't work. What is known:

You have an unresolvable roll to hit. That is fine because in any case where this happens we leave the unresolvable effect and any subsequent effects. Just as we do when wounds get applied to vehicles or T tests or modifiers. This is all fact.

We have a 3d6-ld roll that generates wounds that HAS to be resolved once the power is manifested. This is not a to wound roll and is not dependant on a successful to wound roll or indeed a successful to hit roll. All it depends on is a successful casting of the power. If the target UNIT doesn't have an Ld value just like above we leave the roll unresolved and there for have no wounds to worry about.

If Blaktoof thought that he actually had a leg to stand on he would have answered the questions from my previous post. As usual for his side of the argument when they have been proven wrong they throw their hands in the air and declare the rules broken. They are not. They are actually very clear.

your entire post is HYWPI and is the basis of my above argument which you nor anyone else has been able to debunk as there is no RAW support for your false made up stance that has 0 RAW support and is in fact a collection of half rules that never actually override the required to hit roll and are in fact nothing but strawman arguments, ignoring the plain RAW, and erroneous.

I am not supporting the stance that you roll 1 hit die to resolve the effect, I am supporting the stance that RAW the rules for PS make it unresolvable.

Just saying that RaW is HYWPI doesn't stop it from being RaW. If you weren't just trolling you would have answered my questions or argued against the points made. You have failed to do so at every turn. I'll repeat them for you:

The roll to hit is defined as is the roll to wound. It is impossible to resolve either of those rolls for PS due to lack of a profile. So why stop at making up rules to roll to hit? Why not make up a profile to roll to wound on too? No one on your side has ever been able to answer this.  

Lets assume it is assault 1 for a second and has a profile. Guess what the 3d6-ld wounds still occurs regardless of that roll to hit. Why? Because literally NOTHING in the rules links the 2 effects. So why again link it to the roll to hit why not link it to the roll to wound? Or link it to a failed save? Why arbitrarily link it to a successful hit? Again no one on your side of the argument has been able to answer this.  

Lets see how you handle similar situations. Lets say I manifest Haemmorage and target a vehicle. The toughness test roll is well defined, impossible to auto pass and required to happen. However the vehicle lacks the relevant profile. So do you set it to T1 or say it has no effect?  

Once you've resolved your T1 test and it fails you then have a wound on the vehicle. However the vehicle has no woubds characteristic so do you say it is uneffected by wounds or set it to W1 and remove it as a casualty? 

Let me guess you'll go quiet for a while then when someone else posts the RaW you'll declare that is HYWPI and beg for the thread to be closed again to save face?

blaktoof wrote:
otherwise every witchfire would resolve its effect despite missing or the result of the to hit roll as it is not part of the general steps in resolving a psychic power.

Proven false. Please stop asserting this.

Blaktoof - please stop calling everything a strawman argument. You clearly do not understand the term

Please post rules support for your contention that a successful to hit is required before you can continue resolving the rest of ps. Page and graph.

already posted rules, maybe you should try posting rules to support your claim that it is RAW that you can ignore the to hit roll?

or RAW that effects that you are required to roll to hit for still go off if you miss?

A strawman argument is proping up a psuedo set of rules that do not actually discuss the central point of the debate, and claiming they do for no supported reason.

example.

the general rules for psychic powers do not list rolling to hit as required to make it to resolving the power, therefire psychic shriek goes off without a to hit roll.

why this is a strawman argument- it ignores the central point that specifically witchfires require a to hit roll, therefore stating that the general rule overrides the specific rule is the same as saying all witchfires resolve without rolling to hit, because you ignored that central point of the argument with general rules that do not actually discuss witchfires and requiring to roll to hit.

example 2

the normal shooting sequence requires you to roll to wound after rolling to hit, since there is no roll to wound in PS therefore you do not need to roll to hit.

why this is a strawman argument, the general rules for shooting pertain to weapons with a profile, psychic shriek has no profile but RAW is still required to roll to hit as it is a witchfire which is more specific than the general shooting rules. Nothing in the rules for PS itself state it may ignore the to hit roll, so you cannot go to an unrelated general rule and claim because there is no to wound roll it resolves anyways. There is no actual connection back to psychic shriek nor is there anything in the shooting rules that gives you permission to resolve attacks effects that are required to roll to hit that do not roll to wound even if they fail their to hit roll.

example 3

we roll 1 hit die to resolve to hit rolls for psychic shriek

why this is a strawman argument, generally things roll 1 die to hit, however psychic shriek doesn't tell us to roll 1 die, nor does it have a profile that lists how many die to roll, therefore there is no actual rules connection back to psychic shriek to support this claim. Further there is no actual RAW stating that you only roll 1 die unless specified otherwise. It is simply propping up part of a section in the shooting section and claiming its something it is not and encompasses everything else.

anyone who says "this is how it works" in regards to resolving PS is a HYWPI argument, with at best some RAI to support it.

the general rules for psychic powers do not list rolling to hit as required to make it to resolving the power, therefire psychic shriek goes off without a to hit roll. 

why this is a strawman argument- it ignores the central point that specifically witchfires require a to hit roll, therefore stating that the general rule overrides the specific rule is the same as saying all witchfires resolve without rolling to hit, because you ignored that central point of the argument with general rules that do not actually discuss witchfires and requiring to roll to hit. 

Yes it requires a roll to hit. The 3d6-ld test however is not tied to that roll at all. Requires a roll to hit is not the same as requiring a successful hit. Stop claiming it is or come up with some rules supporting this claim. Also come up with ANY rules that tie the 3d6-ld wounds effect to the result of rolls to hit.

he normal shooting sequence requires you to roll to wound after rolling to hit, since there is no roll to wound in PS therefore you do not need to roll to hit. 

why this is a strawman argument, the general rules for shooting pertain to weapons with a profile, psychic shriek has no profile but RAW is still required to roll to hit as it is a witchfire which is more specific than the general shooting rules. Nothing in the rules for PS itself state it may ignore the to hit roll, so you cannot go to an unrelated general rule and claim because there is no to wound roll it resolves anyways. There is no actual connection back to psychic shriek nor is there anything in the shooting rules that gives you permission to resolve attacks effects that are required to roll to hit that do not roll to wound even if they fail their to hit roll.

You largely defeat your own argument here. Nothing in the Witchfire or PS tells you not to resolve the wound roll. So why are you treating it differently? I almost laughed out load at the underlined, I mean the specific instructions in the Witchfire rules to roll to hit override the general shooting rules that require you to hit. Genius, those 2 rules agree.

This word "Stawman" you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.

cite permission for effect to resolve on a failed to hit roll.

as you have never done so.

blaktoof wrote:
cite permission for effect to resolve on a failed to hit roll.

as you have never done so.

blaktoof, you just posted an irrelevant question. It would be the same as saying 'cite permission for Psychic Shrieks effect to resolve on a successful to hit roll'.


We have shown permission to resolve through the Psychic power rules. (This has nothing to do with a successful or failed to hit roll)

The rule that states you resolve the effects according to the instructions in the psychic powers entry. (This has been posted already).


You would have to make up a rule (Number of dice to roll) to be able to roll to hit at all, as PS has no profile telling us how many shots it has.

blaktoof wrote:
A strawman argument is proping up a psuedo set of rules that do not actually discuss the central point of the debate, and claiming they do for no supported reason.

No, that's not what it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

blaktoof wrote:
cite permission for effect to resolve on a failed to hit roll.

as you have never done so.

We have cited permission to resolve the power repeatedly. It doesn't mention anything about hitting or missing therefore it doesn't care whether you hit or miss. You now need to show that a miss removes that permission or that witchfires require a hit to resolve.

A successful hit only matters if you intend to make a to wound roll or if you have an effect that states it is triggered by a hit or by hits thus you need to post rules for above or that the 3d6-ld wounds is dependent on scoring one or more hits or is resolved for each hit or is done instead of the to wound roll (as that roll is trigger by successful to hits).

 DeathReaper wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
cite permission for effect to resolve on a failed to hit roll.

as you have never done so.

blaktoof, you just posted an irrelevant question. It would be the same as saying 'cite permission for Psychic Shrieks effect to resolve on a successful to hit roll'.


We have shown permission to resolve through the Psychic power rules. (This has nothing to do with a successful or failed to hit roll)

The rule that states you resolve the effects according to the instructions in the psychic powers entry. (This has been posted already).


You would have to make up a rule (Number of dice to roll) to be able to roll to hit at all, as PS has no profile telling us how many shots it has.

for the reason I stated you have not shown permission and stating the general resolution process for psychic powers which does not take into account the rules for witchfire requiring a to hit rule makes that completely invalid as was my statement, that is the defination of a strawman argument.

please cite RAW that you have permission to ignore the to hit roll for witchfires from the general section on how psychic powers are resolved. Otherwise your argument is that no witchfire is required to roll to hit to resolve the effect of the power.

blaktoof wrote:
for the reason I stated you have not shown permission and stating the general resolution process for psychic powers which does not take into account the rules for witchfire requiring a to hit rule makes that completely invalid as was my statement, that is the defination of a strawman argument.

Did you miss where I cited the definition? Because what you're saying isn't it.

please cite RAW that you have permission to ignore the to hit roll for witchfires from the general section on how psychic powers are resolved. Otherwise your argument is that no witchfire is required to roll to hit to resolve the effect of the power.

No, that's not a true statement. As I've proven. Please stop asserting it.

I think it's time to drop this - despite proving that the to hit has no effect on the resolution, Blaktoof is incapable of posting any sensical rebuttal.

for the reason I stated you have not shown permission and stating the general resolution process for psychic powers which does not take into account the rules for witchfire requiring a to hit rule makes that completely invalid as was my statement, that is the defination of a strawman argument. 

Again you're equating to hit roll with successful to hit roll. Stop this has been pointed out to you already so repeatibg this stance without support is not help. Prove that the requirement to roll to hit with a Witchfire means you that you must hit with that roll to resolve.

please cite RAW that you have permission to ignore the to hit roll for witchfires from the general section on how psychic powers are resolved. Otherwise your argument is that no witchfire is required to roll to hit to resolve the effect of the power.

Are you incapable of understanding English? We have not stated that you don't have to roll to hit. Yes all witchfires roll to hit. You still resolve them regardless of that roll, obviously anything that is dependent on a successful to hit roll will only trigger on a successful to hit roll. No part of PS is dependent on a successful to hit roll, unless you can show that it is. If you point to the requirement to roll to hit that is you conceding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do we finally have general agreement that the roll to hit for PS is irrelevant and PS works fine RaW.