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hi, i was looking to buy some high qualaty brushes, and it seems everybody recommend the winsor series 7, the problems is that i dont have so much money to spend in something like that, so looking for alternative i found the rosemary & co. more affordables brushes, i have already decide for this ones but I have several questions:
I am planning to buy a watercolour serie 22 pure kolinsky designer, size 0 (to use on fine details) but i dont know if this is the right to use with citadel paints, but i want to buy too an acrylic serie 402 designer pointed sable mixture size 2 (for basecoating mainly) but i have the saem doubt, anyone could help me.
I read too abou the armypainter "wargame" brushes, i was planning to buy a regiment brush to make basecoating, anyone could giveme some advice.
thanks in advance
Personally I went for the Series 7 brushes.
Our brushes are our tools.
And I never skimp on my primary tools.
Yes they were expensive. But well worth it.
Then we come to Raphael 8404 series.
According to those who have used these brushes, they are as good as the Series 7.
Army Painter
I bought the triple set of Army Painter brushes. The white handles ones. In the set were three brushes. A detail brush, a regiment(standard) brush and a small drybrush.
After two minis began getting a split tip on the standard brush. Still usable to a degree. But any notion of fine detailing and precision went out the window.
The detail brush. This is actually quite a good brush.
So far it has held up nicely. A positive surprise.
Small Drybrush.
The tip is cut at an angle.
Dunno which type of material used. But I'll guess synthetic.
I haven't really abused my drybrush, so I was a little surprised to see how much the bristles were bent. And the brush also split.
Citadel Brushes
Haven't touched them in years. So I cannot speak about the quality or durability of these brushes.
Especially considering the fact that they have switched suppliers at least once since I sed them last..
Your garden variety hobby store bargain brushes.
Best avoided for anything but applying glue IMHO.
They shed hairs, a lot of hairs. That alone is reason to avoid them.
So my personal opinion.
Spend the money on quality brushes and some brushcare products. The initial investment might seem steep.
But in the long run it is way less pricey. Just remember to care for them properly. I wash my brushes with brushsoap after EVERY use. And once every other day of use they get a quick soak in some brush restorer. And every now and then I will give them a once over with some conditioner.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/18 10:10:21
I may be an donkey-cave, but at least I'm an equal oppurtunity donkey-cave...
I've been using "Creative Models" brand of Red Sable Kolinsky and it has been good for me. It's not a super cheap brush, but not excessively expensive either.
I mostly use #1 and #2 brushes. I've had this #1 brush for about a year and it's still got a perfect tip to it. Make sure you take care of it, don't let paint get up around the ferrule (I use other cheapo or old brushes for removing the paint from pots and mixing) and I use a bit of hand soap every few minutes of painting just to make sure paint isn't drying in it.
anyeri wrote: hi, i was looking to buy some high qualaty brushes, and it seems everybody recommend the winsor series 7, the problems is that i dont have so much money to spend in something like that, so looking for alternative i found the rosemary & co. more affordables brushes, i have already decide for this ones but I have several questions:
I am planning to buy a watercolour serie 22 pure kolinsky designer, size 0 (to use on fine details) but i dont know if this is the right to use with citadel paints, but i want to buy too an acrylic serie 402 designer pointed sable mixture size 2 (for basecoating mainly) but i have the saem doubt, anyone could help me.
I read too abou the armypainter "wargame" brushes, i was planning to buy a regiment brush to make basecoating, anyone could giveme some advice.
thanks in advance
I like the Rosemary & Company kolinsky sable brushes. Not enough to replace my WN7s, but still, for the price they're really good. Yes, the style you've chosen are correct. I'm not familiar with their 402 series. Frankly, when the brushes aren't made from Kolinsky sable I pretty much stop paying attention to what the brushes are made of. The army painter brushes are synthetic brushes and I like synthetics for being good workhorse brushes. Maybe this video will help:
Tjomball wrote: Then we come to Raphael 8404 series.
According to those who have used these brushes, they are as good as the Series 7.
For me, they are actually better. While the OVERALL quality of the brushes is the same, the Raph has a significantly bigger reservoir. This means more time painting, less time loading the brush. W&N is not the end-all-be-all in brushes, they are simply a better known name, therefore, they get recommended more often.
To the OP: Yes, good brushes are more expensive. But, you'll end up spending more money in the long run on cheap brushes that will have to be replaced every few months, even with proper cleaning and care. My current Kolinsky brushes (one Raph 8404 and one W&N S7) are both over three years old and both are still like new. The other bonus with good brushes is better control. Paint flows beautifully from a quality brush, and goes where you want it to go.
If you don't want to spend the money on Kolinsky hair brushes, a good quality Red Sable brush is almost as good, for less money. With any good quality natural hair brush, you'll need a good cleaner/conditioner, and use it everyday. The Masters Brush Soap is the best, IMHO, but I'm not sure if it's available where you are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/18 12:50:57
Tjomball wrote: Then we come to Raphael 8404 series.
According to those who have used these brushes, they are as good as the Series 7.
For me, they are actually better. While the OVERALL quality of the brushes is the same, the Raph has a significantly bigger reservoir. This means more time painting, less time loading the brush. W&N is not the end-all-be-all in brushes, they are simply a better known name, therefore, they get recommended more often.
I've used both and still prefer WN7. That doesn't mean that either is better or worse, but I definitely prefer the Winsor & Newtons - it's not because I don't know about the Raphs.
thanks to all for the input, i know about the qualaty-money rate, but the problem is, i have the money to pay a W&N brush but dont have the money to pay the shipment jeje, at the end i am going to pay more than the double of the price of one single brush, becuase i need to pay the more expensive shipment option (yes i know, it really sucks the mail system in my country, a lot of things never arrive thanks to the "honesty" of the poeple form the post office) so at the end choosing the rosemary brushes is more as a safe option for the price, and if it never arrive i am not going to loose to much money.
About the other brand, the raphael, could somebody give a link, or better, could anyone give a link for an only store with good prices and discounts, thanks again for the advice
I've used most of the popular brands at one point or the other. My go-to brand is Winsor & Newton Series 7.
W&N Series 7 - These are very springy brushes that hold a lot of paint, and wear really well with time. In my opinion, they are the kolinsky sable brush that most keeps its form and returns to a point in the same way that a synthetic brush does. After several months, my S7 brushes still work just as well as the day I bought them. The 1, 0, and 00 sizes are exceptionally useful for miniature painting.
The finest brush in the range, however, is a 3/0, and this brush has a body that is too wide to be ideal for extremely fine details such as eyes and freehand lettering -- you have to be far too careful not to press down too hard for even a fraction of a second, or not to overload the brush by a tiny bit. The 3/0 is also a little fat to get into really tight corners.
Another bonus to this is that because it's a popular brush, sometimes fine arts stores have sales on them. I generally buy mine when they are on discount, and get a bunch for the $12-$14 range.
Raphael 8404 - The length out of the brush (from the ferrule to the point) of the Raphael 8404 is quite long, which allows it to hold a little more paint. Most sizes of the brush hold a point very well, but stays bent once you press down against a surface. In some cases this is useful, but much more often this means straightening it out on a palette before work again. The 6/0 size is awesomely useful, and is what I use for all my tiny detailing.
Curiously, the brushes feel much larger than Winsor & Newton of the same size. For instance, a size 0 8404 feels like a significantly larger brush than a S7 size 0 -- it's almost the size of a S7 size 1. Also, there is a kolinsky sable liner brush by Raphael (I don't know that it's 8404, but it's a pricey brush).
Rosemary & Co. - I have only bought a fine detail brush and a size 1. I hate to say it, but it did not feel that special -- there was just nothing in particular that I liked bout it more than an 8404 or a S7. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance.
Isabey - I have a super fine one of these. I think the ferrule size is 2/0 or 3/0, but it's easily as fine as the Raphael 8404 6/0 for freehand purposes. An excellent brush, but I am more used to the 8404, and they are pretty much the same price.
Tamiya - I have the Tamiya Pro kolinsky sable brushes, from size 3/0 to size 2. They don't get a lot of use anymore, but these are actually awesome brushes. They length out is relatively short (shorter than any of the brushes above), they are springy and they retain their point exceptionally well. The distinguishing feature is the handle, though: they have an awesome, fat, contoured handle like a fancy pen, that makes them easy to hold and use for model painting. I find that the length of the larger sizes is too short.
I used the Tamiya extensively before I moved to the Series 7. One major downside to it is that they are stupidly expensive; they are $30+ at my hobby store, and this was a contributing factor to my switch away from them.
Citadel - Okay, well, these are not in the same league as the brushes above, but they are Kolinsky Sable brushes, so I guess they are worth a mention. They are a fraction of the price of any of the brushes above ($7 and less, instead of mostly $15 and more). My main issue with them is that they don't hold a point well during use; the bristles fray, and you have to retip the point. This is a major issue on the larger sizes (like basecoat and standard brush). However, if I had to buy cheap brushes, these would be it, as they are still better than the cheap $4 synthetics at hobby stores. I use the Citadel Fine Detail and Detail brushes for doing controlled washes, but mostly because the brushes look quite different and are quickly identifiable.
A notable mention is the Citadel 'Eavy Metal detail brush, that has been included in some sets, such as the edge kit. It is actually an awesome brush, with a really, really nice handle. I believe it's a rebranded Winsor & Newton Series 7 Size 00 -- it behaves just like it, anyhow. I wandered onto it by accident, by buying a heavily discounted box set that was on clearance -- I got a half dozen paints and the brush for something like $20, which made me very happy. I went back and bought the other one on clearance
Other useful must-have brushes in the regular Citadel range are the two drybushes, and the stippling brush. The drybrushes are cheap, short coarse haired (not kolinsky) brushes specifically made for drybrushing that work so much better than old ratty brushes. And, the Stippling brush is a good quality stippling brush for half the price of a fine arts brand; P3 makes one too that is quite useful.
P3 Studio and Army Painter - Sorry, I have nothing really nice to say about these. They don't hold their point, and don't behave anything like the top tier brushes. I do use an Army Painter Regiment brush for doing washes, more because it's the right size and I have it than anything else.
Other Brushes Worth mentioning:
I think that a flat brush is very important. Everyone should have a size 1, 2, and 4 flat brush. A size 2 Filbert brush is also amazingly useful. These brushes are very good for basecoating and blending flat areas. You don't need to buy an amazingly expensive brand, but keep in mind that better brushes will kink less and last longer.
Good synthetic brushes are actually easier to learn on than most Kolinsky sable brushes for miniatures, because they hold their form very well. Most do not hold as much paint, because they don't have a belly like a Kolinsky. Unfortunately, the high end ones cost about the same as a top-notch sable brush, and all synthetic brushes eventually kink at the tip, rendering them, in my opinion, useless.
Ultra Grey wrote: If you don't want to spend the money on Kolinsky hair brushes, a good quality Red Sable brush is almost as good, for less money.
QFT. I use R&Co. brushes, both the Kolinsky Series 33 and the Pure Sable Series 99. S.33s are already roughly half the price of W&N Series 7s, and the S.99s are cheaper, still (33s vary between 1.5-2x the cost of a 99 for a given size). They still perform quite well - I actually use Red Sable more than Kolinsky, simply because I have a size 2. It's become my workhorse, thanks to the sizable belly, fine point, and decent snap. I initially bought it thinking that I'd use the cheaper brush for basic work - basecoating, washes, maybe some simple block highlights - but once I pick it up, I rarely find reason to put it back down until I'm well into detailing. I've completed entire models with just that brush and a spray can for priming and varnishing.
If you aren't already accustomed to Series 7s or 8404s, there's a decent chance that a Rosemary & Co. sable (of any description) is going to be an upgrade over what you're using, possibly a rather significant one, and is much easier on your wallet.
P.S. - I, too, swear by Master's brush soap. Search for nearly any brush-cleaning thread and you'll see me professing my love for it, somewhere in there. If you don't have it, get it - it's not particularly dear or difficult to find.
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
The Master's brush soap is awesome. You should also check out the Winsor & Newton Brush Cleaner & Restorer. The Master's brush soap is like a waxy type hard soap that you clean a damp brush in, while the W&N cleaner is a liquid that you can decant into a little glass jar and just swish your brush in (after, I wipe it on a paper towel, and then rinse it under the tap in cold running water).
I use both -- the W&N cleaner is just faster to do as a daily cleaning (it takes seconds to do each brush), and it very quickly dissolves all the paint from the brushes, including metallics. The Master's is more like a weekly or bi-weekly maintenance thing.
One other thing -- if you take reasonable care of a top tier Kolinsky sable brush, regardless of brand, you'll spend a lot less on brushes over the period of a year. Cheap brushes typically work fine when they are new, but wear out and perform poorly after a short time. They don't have sharp points, bristles stick out, and with most synthetics, you get kinked points. I'm not even talking about weeks of painting... 40 hours of use will kill a $4 brush for me, or at least make it so that I can no longer paint clean edges. In contrast, a good brush that just has minimal care (and little paint in the ferrule) will last hundreds of hours of primary use at $20 a brush, and even afterwards, will be good for lots tasks that don't require super precision.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/18 21:21:51
