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My cousin always beats me. They always just get back up.
I normally run Vanilla Marines with a combo of Imperial Fists, Raven Guard and/or White Scars Chapter tactics.
Any thoughts?

Necrons lack range. They are also weak in assault. Focus down one unit at a time to stop them getting back up.

People can't help unless they know what you have and what he runs, at what points etc...

I can field pretty much anything from the codex but usually I go for 2x Tactical squads, a 4las Devastator to deal with any armour, at least one assault squad, bikes and a termie squad etc
He always runs at least 1 lord with res orb in a big unit of warriors, with another couple of warriors squads plus usually 2 squads of immortals. sometimes he cracks out a couple of annihilation barges just to really rub it in.
i think the main trouble is iv stopped taking any sort of armour cos it just gets gaussed to death in 1 turn (stupid rule)

Okay well, from what you run it looks like you're running filler units and no hard hitters. You have no pain.

Bike squad is good (I hope you're using Grav-guns), but try and put a captain/chapter master on a bike(give him the shield eternal and a thunder hammer so he can wreck face). With bikes being troops you can cut the one squad of tac's, and make the other maybe a lazback/drop pod for some fire support. Space marine tacticals are tough to remove, but they aren't that great at removing other units.

Drop Pods to help disrupt his lines a little. Sternies with combi's, or just normal tacticals with a heavy and special. In a game with a good amount of fast movers, drop pods over rhinos.

Grav-centurions if you have them.

Put melta bombs on all your characters, for 5pts they're a bargain.

Honestly your list is fine for friendly fluffy games, but if you want to win, even just once, you're going to have to break out some stinky cheese. For space marines that is bike troops (with grav), command squads on bikes loaded up with grav-guns and storm shields and grav-centurions with maybe a libby casting invisibility. That being said you'll need to cut out the termies, because they're no good these days, and the assault squad because all they will do is die a horrible death.

So this a is preliminary list

Captain (215): Bike, Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer, Melta Bombs, Artificer armour.

Tactical Squad (210): 9 marines +sergeant. Lascannon, meltagun,
Melta bombs.

X2 Bike Squads (156 each): 5 bikers + sergeant. 2 grav-guns.

Centurion Devastators (260): 3 centurions. 3 grav-cannons plus 1 omniscope.

That comes to 997pts. I just made this now so add and subtract your choice units as you see fit.

Bikes are a good bet, with grav guns and melta especially.

Necrons do keep getting back up, but there are ways around this. Focus your fire in the shooting phase on 1 unit at a time, if you wipe them out then no-one is going to get back up.

Second way is to assault them. With such a low initiative necrons are very susceptible to sweeping advances.
.

Looks like you need help from CHAPTER MASTER SMASHFUCKER.

step one take a dude. Put him on a bike. Give him a fancy eternal warrior shield. Follow it up with some artificer armor. Drop a scary burning blade.

Turn one, focus all available fire along with the orbital barrage on one unfortunate unit of 'crons. If the immortals are walking, paste them.

Also-you may think running vehicles is stupid because of gauss. Cure yourself of that notion. Rhinos are 35 points. It takes, on average, 27 gauss shots to kill that 35 points-which would cost you 68 points of marines if they were sunk into a tactical squad. Drop pods are also totally points efficient, and a predator tank with Lascannon array is immune to Annhialation barge fire (unlike Devastators) and has longer range than any unit of warriors.

The single best way to pop Necrons is still assault. Remember that you calculate who wins a round of cc BEFORE they get back up (just like you roll morale for shooting at them before get back up-many people forget this!!) and if they ever fall back, anyone who is down stays down.

 Fellwing wrote:
i think the main trouble is iv stopped taking any sort of armour cos it just gets gaussed to death in 1 turn (stupid rule)

This makes no sense.
Seriously.

Anti Necron tactic 1: bring enough models so that when you knock down a character, you swarm the area. If there is nowhere within 3 inches that he goes down that he can get back up within an inch of enemy models, then he can't return to play.

Anti necron tactic 2: concentrate your firepower to finish whole squads. Don't let him make get back up rolls!

Anti necron tactic 3: Beat them badly in close combat and sweeping advance them! They are not immune to sweeping advances like space marines are!

 skoffs wrote:

 Fellwing wrote:
i think the main trouble is iv stopped taking any sort of armour cos it just gets gaussed to death in 1 turn (stupid rule)

This makes no sense.
Seriously.

It's how people feel about Necrons.
What they fail to realise is that 10 Warriors shoot, which are 7 hits and around one glancing hit.

But a list like that has three big weaknesses: Moving, blasts/templates with AP4 and melee.
And I disagree with the above tactic #1.
You LOVE it if the character gets back up, because that means you'll probably be locked in combat during the Necron shooting-phase and you'll be ready to assault in your own next turn.

Thanks for all the replies, some useful advice that will definitely go into practice next time i play him. Forgot to mention my HQ I usually go for Khan if I'm running bikes or Jump Chaplain/Captain if I've got my Assault squads. I must say i have yet to try out a Chapter Master cos I've always seen him as a massive points sink for any games below 1500. also i don't really see the attraction of the chapter relics either, expensive for what they do.
i will definitely try rhinos next game, got 3 plus 1 drop pod. also trying to figure out a way to get my 3 leman russ into the list

No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

Sometimes when someone is getting beaten hard and continuously there always seems to be a confusion about the rules.

 skoffs wrote:
No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

You aren't using enough Warriors. Either that or it's Scarabs doing the damage, not Gauss.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

You aren't using enough Warriors. Either that or it's Scarabs doing the damage, not Gauss.

I was using my friends SM against Necrons, and turn 2 he destroy almost all my vehicles with gauss. Damn 6's

As with all these how to beat X threads

1) Read there codex: prevents the shenanigans
2) Terrain : Lots of it and LOSblocky types too

Honestly Necrons are tough but hardly impossible

Personally i like the Av14 Raider threat to force there warriors to come close, then own them in CC. it forces them to play your game instead of dealing with the A barge or Scythes.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

You aren't using enough Warriors. Either that or it's Scarabs doing the damage, not Gauss.

I was using my friends SM against Necrons, and turn 2 he destroy almost all my vehicles with gauss. Damn 6's

Oh, so it wasn't turn 1.
I was wondering how a 24" gun was glancing vehicles to death when they should be safely out of range on that turn.
Still don't see how he was able to do so, though. Statistically, it should be almost impossible (we've done the mathhammer on gauss time and time again. It's just not a good anti-AV method, mostly just a gimmick).
So either you're just REALLY bad at playing (putting tanks directly in front of his Warriors as soon as you can with no regard to cover or offensive counters), or you're just grossly exaggerating again.

 Desubot wrote:
Personally i like the Av14 Raider threat to force there warriors to come close, then own them in CC. it forces them to play your game instead of dealing with the A barge or Scythes.

That'll work.
Should be fine, unless they're using Storm-teks and/or Scarabs.

 skoffs wrote:
No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

ok chill out?
usual deployment is 24" apart, so he moves 6" then fires 12-20 warriors (depending on his unit sizes) hitting on 3+. 20 shots on 3's then 6's on Battlescribe dice tools = 2 successful so you'd only need one more than the average. My cousin does seem to be able to pull 6's out of his arse most of the time but even so a lucky roll can easily glance a standard 3 Hull Point vehicle to death. I've also lost plenty of fliers on snap shots then gaussglance.
I keep my distance now and certainly don't let my vehicles get within rapid fire range of his warriors


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
Sometimes when someone is getting beaten hard and continuously there always seems to be a confusion about the rules.

no confusion, just believe that gauss and RP are slightly OP


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
No, seriously, I want to know how you're losing vehicles to gauss on turn one.
I play Necrons, and I have no idea how that would even be possible in a normal game.

You aren't using enough Warriors. Either that or it's Scarabs doing the damage, not Gauss.

I was using my friends SM against Necrons, and turn 2 he destroy almost all my vehicles with gauss. Damn 6's

Oh, so it wasn't turn 1.
I was wondering how a 24" gun was glancing vehicles to death when they should be safely out of range on that turn.
Still don't see how he was able to do so, though. Statistically, it should be almost impossible (we've done the mathhammer on gauss time and time again. It's just not a good anti-AV method, mostly just a gimmick).
So either you're just REALLY bad at playing (putting tanks directly in front of his Warriors as soon as you can with no regard to cover or offensive counters), or you're just grossly exaggerating again.

 Desubot wrote:
Personally i like the Av14 Raider threat to force there warriors to come close, then own them in CC. it forces them to play your game instead of dealing with the A barge or Scythes.

That'll work.
Should be fine, unless they're using Storm-teks and/or Scarabs.

Oh yeah and someone else wrote that about turn 2.
Just sayin

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Bikes are a good bet, with grav guns and melta especially.

Necrons do keep getting back up, but there are ways around this. Focus your fire in the shooting phase on 1 unit at a time, if you wipe them out then no-one is going to get back up.

Second way is to assault them. With such a low initiative necrons are very susceptible to sweeping advances.
.

Grav isn't even that good against warriors guys... They are worse then heavy bolters for Christ sake and it blows verse cron vehicles because it never drops the shielding.

A big question is how you play. Like, what type of missions etc.? Mass tacticals can be brutal when playing maelstrom but lack luster in alter of war.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Bikes are a good bet, with grav guns and melta especially.

Necrons do keep getting back up, but there are ways around this. Focus your fire in the shooting phase on 1 unit at a time, if you wipe them out then no-one is going to get back up.

Second way is to assault them. With such a low initiative necrons are very susceptible to sweeping advances.
.

Grav isn't even that good against warriors guys... They are worse then heavy bolters for Christ sake and it blows verse cron vehicles because it never drops the shielding.

A big question is how you play. Like, what type of missions etc.? Mass tacticals can be brutal when playing maelstrom but lack luster in alter of war.

I find the immobilization damage to be the bees knees with grav weaponry. Immobilizing a ghost ark or an annihilation barge usually (but not always) puts it out of the game.

col_impact wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Bikes are a good bet, with grav guns and melta especially.

Necrons do keep getting back up, but there are ways around this. Focus your fire in the shooting phase on 1 unit at a time, if you wipe them out then no-one is going to get back up.

Second way is to assault them. With such a low initiative necrons are very susceptible to sweeping advances.
.

Grav isn't even that good against warriors guys... They are worse then heavy bolters for Christ sake and it blows verse cron vehicles because it never drops the shielding.

A big question is how you play. Like, what type of missions etc.? Mass tacticals can be brutal when playing maelstrom but lack luster in alter of war.

I find the immobilization damage to be the bees knees with grav weaponry. Immobilizing a ghost ark or an annihilation barge usually (but not always) puts it out of the game.

yea got plenty of bikes i love bikes
Have to disagree about heavy Bolters tho, once i ran my Guard, sorry 'AM', against his necrons (they actually did marginally better than my marines that game) and had 4 Chimeras with 2 Heavy Bolters each and they chewed up his warrior squads cos of AP4. ah, happy days.

So we're doin a big game to mark my 30th birthday my marines vs Necrons and Chaos Marines (that's me vs my 2 cousins) i have 3500 point list which i am happy with, just trying to paint it all in time.

Am defo gonna take some of these comments to the game such as bikes and CC. I'd already decided on 2 big bike squads with 2 grav and combi grav, to take out the inevitable chaos termies my other cousin always throws out.
what should their follow up target be once the termies are down? Immortals? Vehicles?
Thoughts appreciated?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
o and must apologise to all iv just noticed i spelt space wrong in the title.
It's the Eye for me...

next game i have im gonna try out a Dev squad with 4 Plasma Cannons. See if that makes a dint in his warriors. then ill shoot everything else at said warrior squad till they're no more than a pile of scrap.

Xenos filth got you down? Use those special rules and chapter tactics to your advantage. Why not a 10 man dev squad, and then combat squad them? Now you have two 5 man squads with 2 heavy weapons and a sgt who can increase 1 shooters bs in lieu of his shooting. I prefer 2 LC and 2 ML/PC. Ultramarine tactics are good for allowing you to put down some accurate firepower for round 1, re-roll your assault distance on turn 2 or 3 and use the devi doctrine to re-roll snap shots if you know your opponent is going to charge you in the next turn. Honestly his list doesnt seem that tough, i didnt see you mentioning anyhthing about copious amounts of fliers or monoliths or scarabs, so you should have no problem winning with some tweeks to your list and strategy...

That's weird, I play sm and I play a friend a lot who has necrons. I play a similar list with imperial fists tactics. He has never beaten me once in all the times we've played. Interesting.
I would recommend a squadron of 3 Land speeders all with 2 heavy flamers. For 180 pts, you gotta love that 6 ap 4 templates.

if he runs a lot of warriors you can't go wrong with AP4 Templates from either a thunderfire or a few whirlwinds. I've had great luck against warriors with whilwinds.

Indeed. If you've got big warrior squads footslogging up the board towards you, thunderfire cannons and/or whirlwinds can deliver substantial amounts of pain.

TFC doesnt come in AP4

 Fellwing wrote:
I can field pretty much anything from the codex but usually I go for 2x Tactical squads, a 4las Devastator to deal with any armour, at least one assault squad, bikes and a termie squad etc
He always runs at least 1 lord with res orb in a big unit of warriors, with another couple of warriors squads plus usually 2 squads of immortals. sometimes he cracks out a couple of annihilation barges just to really rub it in.
i think the main trouble is iv stopped taking any sort of armour cos it just gets gaussed to death in 1 turn (stupid rule)

Three rules to live by:

1. He cannot kill what he cannot see.
2. He cannot be two places at once.
3. The score is only tallied at the end of the game.

If you dig deep into what I just said, you will find a lot of answers against The Necrons. And everyone else.

Necron range isn't superb. it is mobile and deadly however. You really need to embrace the idea of having two very long range units in totally opposite corners from one another and shooting him from as far away as possible. Don't deploy anything else (see rule 3). Just fire and wait. He will split up his forces to handle these deadly but hard to reach, slow to kill threats in the first two rounds. and when he has isolated the parts of his force, you strike hard rounds 3-5 on the weakest points and establish positional dominance.

The Objectives could care less how much damage you do to enemy forces as long as you keep them warm at the end of the day.

Try the beat stick Chaptermaster, you could even take Clan Ruakaan and run 2 of them.

Chapter Master
Bike
Thunderhammer
Shield Eternal
Artificer Armour

Chapter Master
Bike
Thunderhammer
Gorgon's Chains
Artificer Armour

Also keep in mind the Gorgon CM gets an extra attack for having 2 ccw because the chains are not a storm shield.

Well, if the cousin changes thing up and decides to bring Cron-Air, those dual Chapter Masters won't be so handy, but if he sticks to Warrior + Ark units, yeah, that'll work.