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Now that the 7th edition warlord trait Master of Ambush has been changed to allow Infiltrate on 3 non vehicle units, the Chapter Master of the Raptors (Reasonable Marines) Lias Issodon has become unreasonably good. I feel that with the first turn of stealth, pregame strike of Infiltrate Isolate Destroy, Infiltrating Infantry,Sniper rifle like bolters, and re-rollable reserves that a true Raptors feel can now be accomplished. Having become sick of people being mad because Eldar are too good, I'm very excited to bring out my favorite chapter of marines and run them with flavor.

My main line will be the infiltrating centurions who will take a forward position and two slightly farther back Devastator teams supporting a turn one Sternguard drop on a flank. Inquisitor Coteaz will be dropping in with Lias Issodon and the 8 man Sternguard unit providing Prescience to replicate their legendary marksmanship and whatever other buffs he can muster, this unit will be looking for cover of any sort to benefit from turn one stealth and all game shrouded while using mass plasma fire to cut down some key unit. The secondary Sternguard will target a slightly softer support squad nearby and will also be looking to hug cover. The Vindicare Assassin from the new Assassins dataslate will act as my company champion who would be a sniper as opposed to a close combat fighter and will generally be looking to pick out heavy weapons, sergeants, final wounds on monstrous creatures and definitely a stray warlord if possible. The Devastators will act as sniper teams taking down armor, monstrous creatures or even heavy infantry while keeping a comfortable distance from the enemy if possible. The Centurions will be the only anvil which I will present to my opponent, keeping my sniper teams within their range should allow me to defend them from deepstrikers and outflankers if the enemy has any such units. The secondary Inquisitor will be running with the melta drop tactical team, contributing to their firepower and most importantly putting servo skulls out on the field to ensure that my infiltration goes well. All reserve teams will be acting as crisis control, behind enemy lines harassment units or objective grabbers as necessary, granting me a little tactical flexibility in the late game, and Lias's boon of re-rolling reserves will definitely help in getting them on the table as early or late as needed. The main advantage that I see in this list is that I will be placing nothing on the table before servo skulls and infiltrators which will not only deny my opponent the ability to react to me, but ultimate reaction to my opponent's deployment. This all being said, what do we think?

HQ:
{WL} Lias Issodon
Inquisitor Coteaz
Inquisitor 2-3x Servo Skulls, 2x Combi Meltas (Can be any Ordo if you think more wargear could be useful)

Elite:
Vindicare Assassin
8x Sternguard-2x Plasmaguns, 6x Combi-Plasma, Melta Bombs In Drop Pod
5x Sternguard-2x Heavyflamers, 3x Combi-Plasma In Drop Pod

Troops:
5x Tacticals-Meltagun,Combi-Melta In Drop Pod
5x Tacticals-Plasmagun, Combi Plasma (Outflanking)

Heavy Support: (All Infiltrating)
3x Grav Centurions
10x Devastators-4x Lascannons
10x Devastators-4x Lascannons (Maybe Multi-Meltas?, with infiltrate then scout move range should be no problem..)

I'm open to pretty much any modification, comments on tactics, or anything at all. Thanks Friends

Remember, that the Master of Ambush warlord trait gives infiltrate to the Warlord AND to 3 other units. So you can infiltrate a total of four units if you want to. It's kind of a judgement call, but you could drop a pod and infiltrate a unit of sternguard so they can start out in some advantageous cover.

Or you could keep the pod, and just run it empty. That way you can get all your units except for the outflankers on the board turn one, and just have the empty pod come down later to sit on an objective.

I like the list. It looks pretty brutal to me. Those Grav-Cents will wreck everything. The only army I see you having a problem with is Demons, where the grav weapons don't work so well, or the Necron Airforce. Any idea on how you want to handle fliers? Since you're using forgeworld characters, perhaps you'd consider swapping a Devastator Squad for a mortis-dread?

Edit: The only thing I'd worry about in this list is being counter assaulted. It would take some testing to see if your firepower is enough to hold people at bay, but I might look into a cheap throwaway unit of assault marines to tie up the stuff you don't want to deal with right away. I'd consider dropping a dev squad for the mortis and an assault squad - just to cover a few more bases.

I don't know about 10 man dev squads, I suppose the extra guys are there to soak damage.

I do love a mortis pattern dread.

You make good sense on the Assault Marines, I was considering them myself. Usually concentrated fire and Lias Issodon with the Sterns are enough to just barely finish off assault threats, but it's like walking a razors edge. Most lists I have a stormraven that drops off it's cargo then picks up the sternguard like an emergency evac while dropping an iron clad into whatever the threat is, but I'm trying to go a different way with this list..

Honestly most of the time I deploy on one flank and concentrate my fire on the units which I can hurt the most while hugging cover. The Sternguard are really mobile and I really love them dropping immediately into rapid fire range where prescience just annihilates any target with toughness. So the firepower is only half of the keeping the enemy at bay and them having to reposition in order to attack me being the second half...

The original plan to counter air was to keep the centurions within range of prescience and try to glance/immobilize fliers out of the air, but I'd say that a strong air assault is one of my greatest weaknesses.

10 man devastators are definitely not necessary, I just had them as my fluff troops for holding down the mid field. So I can trim fat there as well.

A Contemptor Seems pricy, I've never really encountered one before.. Would you still take one as opposed to a storm raven which also functions well in an anti air role?

I would rather take the Raven, just cause flyers annoy opponents. Contemptors can do serious damage with assault cannons/lascannons and Cyclone launchers.

And the model looks cool as hell.

 Iyandenseer wrote:
A Contemptor Seems pricy, I've never really encountered one before.. Would you still take one as opposed to a storm raven which also functions well in an anti air role?

Well I was actually talking about the regular mortis dread. There are both regular mortis dreadnoughts and contemptor mortis dreadnoughts. All the mortis designation means is that they get skyfire/interceptor when they stand still. I love the contemptor models, but I wouldn't use the rules for it. I think they're far too expensive. For AA a stormraven is great - but the mortis is almost half the price. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Sorry for the slow reply, the third world and internet don't like each other much...

So, I looked up the rules for Contemptor Dreadnoughts and it seems that only Codex: Dark Angels and their successors may take them, so that rules them out, or have I missed something?

I built this list to be powerful, but also to capture the Raptors theme, so that's why the Lascannon teams are there as snipers, but I can definitely see scaling them down a bit and adding some bodies to the tactical squads or bringing in some heavy hardware.

For anti-assault, I contemplated a small squad of assault marines and I just can't imagine wasting bodies slowing an opponent down when I could take more guns and do everything I can to avoid the charge entirely, such as climbing levels and such. Maybe the better idea would be to throw a power fist into the Sternguard squad, that with Lias and Coteaz and all of their extra attacks should be enough to fight back a decent spread of threats if anything slips through.. That being said, I could see a larger unit of assault marines infiltrating in and joining in on the target saturation which should be going on at the beginning, but it begs the question: Would it be preferable to have Multi-Melta Devastators in the opponents face backed by the centurions and supporting the Sternguard, or the Assault Marines? Or at the same time, take out the Devastators in exchange for a Storm Raven, Load a Tactical Squad in it and maybe sub in an IronClad Dreadnought as opposed to the secondary Sternguard unit and load it into the back as an Emergency Evac Craft like I described earlier?

Definitely looking for where you would make cuts. ? Thanks again

You should give some thought to cheap bolter scouts. You can get 2 whole squads (20 rending bolter shots turn 1) and a screen for counter assault to block off your centurions, for around 220 points. I like the idea of using Lias' warlord trait to keep everything off the table during deployment.. pretty clever. Maybe cut some dev bodies for scouts?

As for fliers, don't forget if you take a pair of stalkers, they can start off the board and drive on and still take down fliers effectively; you should be able to get both the same turn with Lias' trait. Is replace the Vindicare with these. Nevermind... just remembered they're heavy slots... :(

On another note, have you had any luck with his pre-turn 1 attack? Seems pretty brutal that you could strip 3 hull points off a Knight or something!

That is an incredibly interesting thought on the Scouts.. The only thing keeping me from taking Scouts, which are even incredibly fluffy for the Raptors is that I can infiltrate Tactical Marines meaning Bolters hitting on threes and better heavy weapons.... That being said it could be more thematic to cut those points to make room for more sternguard or something.. My only issue would be who would grab objectives while everyone is committed to the Alpha Strike? Not very reasonable.. Perhaps a unit of ten in front and a unit of ten back for those purposes?
...When you look at it though, you've got 10 bolter hits and maybe two rends.. but it's something for sure.
I'm definitely going to play with the idea today and see what I can come up with.

I don't like stalkers because they only do anti-air... I'd rather shave lots of points and bring on an Adeptus Stormwing or something if I was really worried about it..

As to that attack, it's fantastic. I often use it to disable vehicles. Famously a Land Raider with Abbadon and friends inside. I took off two hull points and got it so it couldn't move and could only fire snap shots on the first turn. Then dropped Lias and Sternguard much closer than I normally would, they tore up ground squads and climbed a ruin level by level. By the time Abaddon closed in, we had made it to the roof and the stormraven picked up the unit and flew away. Clearly a superior position in maneuverability. Also great on wraithknights, pathfinders, Tervigons.. anything. How about you, tried it out? Anyone got success stories or favored targets?

Also realized that I've been calculating Lascannons wrong.. my codex is on the other side of the world, so I've been writing blind. woopsy.

I'd actually be pretty scared of that thing as a daemon player if I had even one Greater Daemon or Be'lakor. A roll of a 5 on his power should statiscally kill either. That's pretty gross when you think about it.

Infiltrate, Isolate, Destroy is wonderful against monstrous creatures. My general strategy is to use it combined with the plasma alpha strike to knock them down before they have a chance to fly.

Still working on a proper list. Here's a question.

Bearing this list in mind, what would you put in a storm raven? My current thoughts are scouts or tacticals to sky of fury onto objectives or sternguard to bring the hurt.
Probably an Ironclad attached.. Thoughts?

I usually ignore my opponents air force, but if I was going to take something to deal with it, I would go for a Fire Raptor, way more fire power then anything in it's class, and with Lias you really don't need a transport.

Love the Raptors and also the list.

But I would get a pair of Storm Talons as the "helicopter" of the Vietnam wars.
And a pair of Whirl winds as artillery.

Maybe more fluffy then hard hitting.

I think that the Fire Raptor is exactly what I need! Because it's the transport capacity that I don't really need. I agree on the talons, don't have any to field yet, but definitely an option in the future, especially the stormwing running in a beta strike null deployment list!

My artillery of choice would be the thunderfire cannon hands down due to the cover enhancement and generally better survivability.

Fluffy is good. Also really liking the forward scout surge concept, but here's my stumbling block.. If I can infiltrate and scout with regular tacticals, for what situations would scouts do a better job?

Take the heavy flamers off the secondary squad, or switch them to combi-flamers. It is always awkward to have mixed weapons, especially ones with such range disparity on such a vulnerable squad. Also 2 mastery levels isn't going to get you much in the psychic phase. Other then that I love the fluff of this army!

 Iyandenseer wrote:
I think that the Fire Raptor is exactly what I need! Because it's the transport capacity that I don't really need. I agree on the talons, don't have any to field yet, but definitely an option in the future, especially the stormwing running in a beta strike null deployment list!

My artillery of choice would be the thunderfire cannon hands down due to the cover enhancement and generally better survivability.

Fluffy is good. Also really liking the forward scout surge concept, but here's my stumbling block.. If I can infiltrate and scout with regular tacticals, for what situations would scouts do a better job?

Maybe not a better job, but Scouts give you more body-count, cheaper troops and thus more points for the heavy lifters of your list. This could also ensure you can infiltrate with all your infantry units, making a null-deployment army quite possible.

I like the concepts you bring with this Raptor list and the other one you posted a few months ago - they're true to Raptor fluff and look cool to play.

Finally back in the western world. Got my first playtest in against a wraithwall.... startlingly brutal.

The Vindicare Assassin killed a farseer with a single incredibly lucky turbo-penetrator round... The secondary sternguard squad may be unnecessary in favor of some other options. Don't even ask me how, but I killed two wraithguard with five scouts and mowed down most of the rest with the lascannons.. Sternguard without firing combi plasmas killed a wraithlord with ease. All of the enemy elements were out of their effective ranges, and everything that I could isolate was neutralized and the game was called almost immediately.. So at least against one type of list I'm feeling pretty good about this lineup.

As to the Mastery Level 2, honestly the only power that I need is Prescience on my main Sternguard unit so as long as I'm not facing a Daemon Farm or something I should be able to get it off.

As to the Scouts, they have proven highly effective and I enjoy the theme of having all of my power armored bodies as sternguard or devastators representing their skill in marksmanship by the time they have reached that level. Definitely good bubble wrap and redundancy fire, also good for snagging backfield objectives.

One more question to throw out. Would you prefer to take the Inquisitors as the prescience providers, or would it perhaps be better to take an allied detachment of mantis warriors for the access to a command squad and such. Sample list could look like this: 1 point over...

R Lias Issodon
MW Librarian ML2

MW 5x Command Squad-5x Meltas-Drop Pod
R 8x Sternguard-2xPlas-6x Com-Plas-Drop Pod
Vindicare Assassin

R 10x Scouts-Camo-Bolters
R 5x Scouts-Camo-Bolters
MW 5x Scouts-Camo-Snipers
MW 5x Scouts-Camo-Snipers

MW 3x Centurions-Grav
R 5x Devastators-4x Lascannons
Fire Raptor Gunship

Kind of WIP, but more along the lines of the current thought structure. Thanks for all of the positive support, really hoping to flesh out some powerful combinations through this thread.

Hmmm I like the Mantis Warriors' CT, the abilities are great and I think they would complement the Raptors proficiency at range. You might want to take advantage of Shadow killers by giving the MW scouts CCW and getting them close to support your main line, counter charging threats with Furious Charge and Hammer of Wrath.

Happy to hear about your success against the Ghost warriors. I'll be facing Eldars tonight, can't wait to put my Raptors against those Xenos.

Cheers!

Whew, pulled out a narrow win against necrons with a transcendent c'tan.. was a bit disheartening to see Lias and Coteaz simultaneously get sucked into the portal of a monolith, but with enough strategery and tacticality anything is possible.

Alright friends, I've got a new puzzle for your puzzler. Who makes the best allies for the Raptors and why?

Two new concepts I've been working on are Sentinels of Terra for Tank hunting devastators (both lascannons and flakk missiles in two units) and centurions, plus bolter scouts in outflanking land speeder storms. Making a potent deathstar of Lias, Coteaz, Sternguard and a ML3 Librarian rolling on telepathy to make the veterans literally invisible.

And also Astra Militarum, for some reserves dickery. In my ongoing struggle to figure out how to deal with flyers it occurred to me that if they don't enter the board until turn 4, that they don't matter a hell of a lot. So the concept is to take two company command squads with officers of the fleet to stack reserves penalty modifiers against my opponent to hopefully a six plus, outfit those units with camo gear, lascannon team and a pair of sniper rifles. And two units of veterans (who I'm shocked to learn cost as much as a drop pod command squad with meltas when you put them in a camo chimera, give them 4+ and only three melta guns... which is hard to justify) who shall infiltrate alongside the centurions.. but haven't settled between mech melta-gunners, backfield snipers with lascannon and camo like the command squads or forward plasma teams with camo. So I could definitely use some advice here.

It might be a while until the next game, but it should be noted that the fire raptor gunship has been an utter disappointment in the two games I fielded it in...

And also that it's frightening to drop in your veterans next to a greater unclean one only to fail prescience... Also beat chaos big time btw. Lascannons vs Terminators who spilled out of a sabotaged landraider = eeeee

Well, Reecius from Frontline Gaming has posted a couple BatReps using Raptors - one with the Assassin Formation (http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/10/03/warhammer-40k-video-bat-rep-257-raptors-vs-grey-knights/) and one with Space Wolf allies (http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/11/17/warhammer-40k-video-bat-rep-263-raptors-vs-necrons/).

In the Raptors/Assassins list (an alliance I find very fluffy), the Callidus gives a nice -3 to reserves on the opponent's first reserve roll of the game. While not very long lasting, if your opponents only reserves are a flyer or two, it can be pretty handy.

In the second with SW allies, the Stormwolf can be used as a strong anti-flyer element.

For myself, I was originally designing a Raptor army with two small camocloak Scout Squads and three Sternguard Squads (which Issodon would infiltrate with at the beginning of the game). With it, I was going to run Astra Militarum with a Officer of the Fleet Command Squad in camocloaks, two Plasmavet squads with camocloaks, and a couple Vendettas for anti-air and anti-tank. All the AM infantry would hang in the back for holding backfield objectives while the SM would push forward to tack objectives in the middle and opponent's backfield.

Reecius and Team0comp battle reports are my personal favorites and I have been thrilled to see the Raptors featured twice. And win.

I can't see myself taking too many assassins, but the reason I took the vindicare in the first place was honestly watching that first battle report.

Space Wolves would be a worthy ally, especially with drop pod shenanigans and longfangs, but I personally don't feel in tune with them. Their flyer would be nice, but then again I've got to buy it..

I do like what you're saying with the Astra Militarum alliance though. To me, I usually want every unit I have to be able to strike the enemy even if they are a backfield unit.. I'd be itching to infiltrate those plasmaguns..
I see two variations to the plasmavet squads, the first being the addition of a lascannon gunner so they can contribute firepower to the fight, the second being rhinos put next to them so they could hop in and scoot up without the full cost of a chimera.

I wish I had vendettas.. You could put marines in there for extra fun... Even in a redesigned list have a few units of sternguard in vendettas supporting a storm raven with something assaulty or centurions with an ironclad. Combine that with stealthy units camping around on the field it could be quite lethal..

Good contribution.

That was exactly the plan with the Vendettas - I could combat squad the Sternguard and start with some on the field with Issodon and some loaded in the Vendettas.

You know, something else I've been thinking on today would be my base Raptor list with a couple Scout units as troops, a couple Sternguard squads and then using the Legion of the Damned Detachment to run some units of LotD for dropping in the opponent's backfield with heavy weapons to kill Wave Serpents with their 'ignore cover' rule. They'd also benefit from Issodon's reserve manipulations.

Two Vendettas and Vets as you describe them seems like a lot of investment for allies. Don't you fear to run out of points for your main list? Especially since you'll be fielding expensive units like Sternguards and Dev-Centurion...

I'm considering the Space Wolves allies too. Frontline's Raptor Battle Reports are awesome and a great source of inspiration. My version of the list (at 1750) forsake the Stormwolf in favor of a Stormraven and I use Grey Hunters and Scouts instead of bloodclaws. I have yet to battle-test it, but it should be done soon.

If you go the AM route, why not use Elysians from IA3v2 to get Deep striking vets and locator beacons? Could be interesting to add some more deployment shenanigans.