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I'm looking for some help with the first miniature I've attempted to paint in many moons. I've chosen Necrons because I figured they'd be a relatively easy starting point. I'm using vallejo game colour paints and trying to take enough time and care to male them look good.
However, my first model has wound up with an uneven texture in the paint, which imo makes it look terrible. Here's a pic:
Apologies for the bad lighting but you should be able to see the issue here.
I'm not sure what the cause is. I didn't really thin the paints out but I was trying to apply a smooth even coat each time.
Can anybody tell me what would be the best way to salvage this or if it's even possible?
Hmm, a couple things. Are you using old paints? If so, get a few old metal sprue bits and put them in the paint and shake. They will help remix the paint if it's old. Also, add a bit of distilled water. Why Distilled? It doesn't have mineral bits in it, which can add texture to the paint. You could also add some Lahmian Medium, but it just depends on how much you want to spend.
If these aren't old paints, still add a bit of water straight to the pot. I use a dropper and regularly add a few drops to keep the paint thin. I also thin it on my palette when I paint, but I'm always fighting to make sure my paint doesn't dry up.
If you want to salvage this model, I would suggest soaking it in a bath of Simple Green if it is plastic. It may take a few hours and some scrubbing, but you can get the paint off pretty easy and start over with thinner paints. Simple Green can be found at places like Walmart in the automotive section. If you aren't in the states, I'm not sure what you should use.
Thinning your paints will make you have to do 3 to 4 coats to build a solid color, but it will be smooth and free of any texture if you thin it and take care of it the right way. Hope this helps a bit!
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
Yes, paints can dry out even if the paint pot has never been opened. I'm sure someone from the UK will respond in here soon enough with an idea for a cleaner for you. You just want to make sure it's not something that's going to destroy the plastic mini. A few things come to mind, but I'd rather not give you an idea of something that turns out to be the wrong product and ruins your stuff. You can search the forums for some guidance. Cleaning products are something discussed weekly around here.
I totally understand not wanting to dish out some more cash to fix your paints, but, if anything, I would get a pot of Lahmian Medium at some point. I wouldn't use it to fix your paints, as that will get costly, but having a pot of it to mix with paints on a palette is worth it. In the mean time get some Distilled water. Make sure it doesn't have minerals in it as the mineral particles have a tendency to attract to one another and show up on your paint job.
Like I said, to recover the paint pots bought a few years ago, get an eye dropper and put a few drops in your paint pots and shake them up. If you have any old metal minis at hand, you can trim the base tag from the bottom and chop it up into bits and drop a few into each paint pot (or use metal model sprue that some mini parts came on). You want the bits to be about the size of a BB. If the paint is extra thick, put three or so in. If it's thin enough, just do 2. I wouldn't recommend using any other metal material, like BB's, because they will rust in the paint and ruin the pot - once again, introducing small particulate that will ruin the paint.
As to how much water, it really just depends. Less is definitely more. When trying to salvage paints that are beginning to dry up, just add a few drops, few metal bits, and shake it up, then check it. Thinning paints is all about personal preference. I like my paints thin. This means I have to add more layers of a given color to get an even coat, but this gives me the ultimate control of how the paint will look when finished. It's something you're going to just have to play around with. When I paint, I add a brush full of paint to my palette, then keep some clean distilled water handy, and add about a brush full to the paint on my palette, and mix it up.
If I'm trying to turn a paint into a wash, I use a little medium with the water. When you only use water to to make a wash/shade, it has a tendency to not dry evenly. Adding a bit of medium will break the surface tension a bit and make it flow into all the crevices and dry evenly. Again, it's all about preference. Most of the time I am for a 1 to 1 ratio of paint to water. The best way to get a good hang of it is to watch GW's recent painting videos by Duncan Rhodes. He shows you how to paint things to a great table top standard, including how to thin down your paints. Here is a good recent example of how he thins paints down and how they work on the model. In this two part video he paints one of the new Blightkings models:
I'll see if I can find a good video on painting Necrons, as it will help you learn these techniques better if they're painting something you are working on and can follow along on. But watch him paint this Blightking anyway. The techniques work for Necrons too, you just have to substitute the colors.
Are you using GW paints btw? Just wanna find you a guide using the paints you use so that you can follow along. And again, I'm glad I can help!
EDIT: Here is a link to the Games Workshop Painting Tutorials available on Youtube. I don't see any Necron videos there, but there are hints that Necrons will be getting a release in the next few months, so there will definitely be some Tutorial videos for them. There are quite a few videos that use the same colors you would essentially use for Necrons here, though. Once you understand the general painting formula for painting things to a good standard, it's all about picking the right colors and applying them in the right order. If you want any help coming up with a good formula, just let me know and I would be happy to help! I don't play Necrons, but I have painted a few over the years. Unfortunately I don't have a camera to take the detailed photos I would like to, but i'm working on getting one. Otherwise I would share. Anyway, watch these two videos to get an idea of how a professional painter goes about thinning paints and applying them. He doesn't talk about adding paint straight to the pot, but, as I said, that's something I do once in a while to prolong their life (and when I know I may not get to painting in a while).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/23 21:44:27
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
The Vallejo metallic paints are really thick. I mean, all metallic paints are a bit thicker (they have mica flakes), but Vallejo is like a goopy syrup compared to GW layer metallics.
With VMC metallic paints (I use Silver and Gold quite a bit), you have to shake them like there's no tomorrow if they haven't been used for a while -- keep in mind they mind they might have been in the hobby shop for a very long time too.
Now, put this aside, and metallic paints all come out lumpier, more uneven, and thicker than non-metallic paints. They are just more viscous, and a bit harder to work with.
My top suggestion is to get GW Leadbelcher. This is an amazing silver paint that can go on either unthinned or just slightly thinned, and it applies and dries very evenly. Like it's predecessor, Boltgun metal, it's a real standout paint. I would then apply a thin layer of Nuln Oil as a wash for Necrons. And/or if you want to creepify it, or do a bit of object source lighting from a glowing weapon, you can use a colored wash.
If you want to use VMC metallics, thin them to the point where they require 2-3 coats to cover.
As others have said thin your paints is the best advice for anyone. However the GW videos are insane to how much paint you need to use. While it's a great tutorial they are also marketing their products. SO they are trying to make you feel as if you need those paint for that effect. Simply not true all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqOf-KjdVY
My Hobby Blog:
While I haven't watched every single one of their videos, I can't say that I agree with you Sammoth. Sure they are promoting their minis and paints in their videos, but I don't see them take unnecessary steps. I do see Duncan put way more paint on his palette than is truly necessary, but I don't see him take extra steps just to try to get you to use more paint. Especially when you're thinning it anyway - in effect using less paint :p If it where the other way then they'd try to sell us GW Distilled water lol. Anyway, as you said, they are a great starting point and follow along tutorial. I have been pleasantly shocked in the quality of the videos. Sure, they aren't like the old Heavy Metal painting guides back when White Dwarf was worth a damn, but I think they are trying to make paint guides realistic enough for anyone to pick up a brush and follow along.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
StormBringer328 wrote: While I haven't watched every single one of their videos, I can't say that I agree with you Sammoth. Sure they are promoting their minis and paints in their videos, but I don't see them take unnecessary steps. I do see Duncan put way more paint on his palette than is truly necessary, but I don't see him take extra steps just to try to get you to use more paint. Especially when you're thinning it anyway - in effect using less paint :p If it where the other way then they'd try to sell us GW Distilled water lol. Anyway, as you said, they are a great starting point and follow along tutorial. I have been pleasantly shocked in the quality of the videos. Sure, they aren't like the old Heavy Metal painting guides back when White Dwarf was worth a damn, but I think they are trying to make paint guides realistic enough for anyone to pick up a brush and follow along.
I agree. I really like Duncan's videos, especially on the complex models like Druthu. They are free, which is really nice, and they really emphasize thinning paints. Duncan always this with water, too, nothing fancy there.
The old masterclass WD articles were so good, but the new Wolves and Dark Eldar books are quite decent too.
Now, if the original comment meant that there are unnecessary steps (as in too many paints), sometimes that's debatable. For instance, for cloth, typically they suggest Zandri Dust, Seraphim Sepia, Ushbanti Bone, and then Screaming Skull. Too much? Sure, you can just put screaming skull and was it with sepia. Or, if you're like me, you might skip the wash, wet blend down to xv-88, then blend up through all the suggested colors and cap it off with pallid wych. If the suggestion is that GW has too many paints, I'd point out P3, which has wonderful paints but limited variety.
Completely agree Tlys. It really comes down to personal taste. I'm sure if we all painted the same mini with the same basic colors, we'd all add or subtract steps someone else thought was unnecessary and another necessary, right? For doing something that costs NOTHING, GW's videos are pretty awesome and show steps on how an average painter could paint above table top standard (IMO these are above table top standard).
Also agree about P3's paints - awesome colors, just not enough to choose from. I like how GW added to their range and made it so that I now have to rarely make my own mixes in spare paint pots. If P3 added to their range, I might find myself torn between the two!
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, especially StormBringer. Those vids are pretty cool. I can't imagine needing too many paints for necrons; at least not for the warriors anyway. Just metal and green. Im guessing 2 of each, 3 tops and a wash for shading? Having watched the videos I'm coming around to the idea of picking up some medium. Where can I find more of these GW tutorials?
Here are some formulas that I used for painting Necrons, a few of the different colors I could think you would most likely use.
Necron Metallics Base Coat - Leadbelcher
Wash/Shade - Nuln Oil (I would thin it down a little, 1:1 ratio of wash to medium, but not necessary. If you do this, you could add another thin coat of the same once dried or do a thin layer of Earthshade slightly thin, but this is not completely necessary)
Layer - clean up from wash layer by reapplying Leadbelcher in a few spots. Could skip this step and move on to the next if you want
Layer - Highlights with Ironbreaker
Layer - Fine Edge Highlights with Runefang Steel
If you want to forgo all that layer painting and just want a Table Top Standard, you could always add in some Dry Brushing. Personally, I don't like Dry Brushing, but if you are new to painting and want to speed things up (especially for troop models you have lots to do).
Glowing Green Base Coat - Caliban Green
Layer - Warpstone Glow
Wash - Biel Tan Green
Layer - Highlight Moot Green
Layer - Thin Highlight of White Scar
Glaze - Waywatcher Green (this will bring all the colors together and give the White Scar layer a glow to it)
When you use this to add a glowing effect for the eyes and weapons, you'll want to make each color almost a glaze in of itself. Try thinning them down to about 1:3 of paint to water. I would almost suggest Medium over distilled water here, but you can try it out with water since it's such a small area you don't have to worry much about how it will dry. Just use extreme control and don't load your brush up - a little will go a long way in a small area like eyes and chest symbols.
Gold Details Base Coat - Balthasar Gold
Layer - Highlight Gehanna's Gold
Wash - Agrax Earthshade
Layer - Fine Edge Highlights of Rune Fang Steel
Dirty Silver or Almost Black Metallic Silver Base Coat - Leadbelcher
Wash - Nuln Oil (don't thin this one down since you want it to be very dark)
Wash - Agrax Earthshade (you can thin this one down if you want, about 1:1 ratio)
Layer - Fine Edge Highlights of Rune Fang Steel
Just play around with thinning things down a little as you saw in the Blightkings video when you think it's necessary. The best way to get a good grasp of these things is to practice a lot. Of course, these are just suggestions - add or subtract as you see fit. You could even add in some of the cool technical paints to add more effects which would look great on old Necron metallics.
Happy painting!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 18:51:35
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
Ok so I picked up some new paints and I searched Tesco for distilled water. Here's what I've got to work with:
Spoiler:
Apparently Glaceau Smart Water is distilled... with added electrolytes! It seems they have gone to the trouble of purifying the water and then added calcium chloride, magnesium chloride and potassium bicarbonate. This apperently imprives the taste but I guess it's less than ideal for painting with.
I figure it still has to be better than tap water and short of distilling my own h2o it's the best I can find. Unless somebody can recommend a UK shop that sells better stuff?
Having taken another look at my 'crons I have decided that they don't look too bad to the eye from a tabletop distance. So, I plan to just give them a thin layer or so of Leadbelcher, highlight Runefang Steel and then fix up the details. Plus I don't want to risk losing any detail by stripping them.
I think perfection was too much to expect for a first attempt so I will continue to improve my skills naturally.
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/28 20:58:16
Most places in the UK seem to sell plenty of varieties of mineral water, spring water, sparkling water and flavoured water. There are entire aisles dedicated to water in most supermarkets but no pure distilled water that I could find
When I mentioned distilled water, I should have said that bottled water would be fine, too. It's not going to have the mineral bits in it that tap water will have, so it'll work just fine for you. Especially if it's easier to get, go for it. Also, like I said, get some sort of dropper to make it easier to add it to your paint. That way you always know how much you are putting in and measuring it the same way each time. You could even use an old cleaned out Vallejo paint bottle - just give it a good soak in cleaning solution to get the old paint out. But you could just use your brush to add water to your paint on a palette the way Duncan did in the videos I shared with you.
I wouldn't worry so much about stripping your first attempts unless you painted a whole army that way. A few models painted aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. The only thing is, as Desubot stated, they may just annoy you later on when your skills have improved and they're the odd men out lol.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. Grrr.
The UK equivalent of Simple Green would be Fairy power spray. Drop it in that for a few hours then you can just brush the paint off with an old tooth brush.
Speaking of spray. Spray cans will give you a much smoother coat than you're likely to achieve by hand. You can also varnish stuff after you've finished. Gloss varnish helps to smooth things out. If you don't like the glossy sheen you can go over it later with matt varnish.
StormBringer328 wrote: When I mentioned distilled water, I should have said that bottled water would be fine, too. It's not going to have the mineral bits in it that tap water will have, so it'll work just fine for you. Especially if it's easier to get, go for it. Also, like I said, get some sort of dropper to make it easier to add it to your paint. That way you always know how much you are putting in and measuring it the same way each time. You could even use an old cleaned out Vallejo paint bottle - just give it a good soak in cleaning solution to get the old paint out. But you could just use your brush to add water to your paint on a palette the way Duncan did in the videos I shared with you.
I wouldn't worry so much about stripping your first attempts unless you painted a whole army that way. A few models painted aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. The only thing is, as Desubot stated, they may just annoy you later on when your skills have improved and they're the odd men out lol.
That's a relief! I hope I do get to a good enough standard that these warriors become an embarrassment but I don't think that repainting the same models over and over again is the best way to get there lol. If I did that the I would never get around to playing!
I also happen to have an old basing airbrush lying around. I may give that a try on my next unit and see how that goes. Obviously I will still need to use brushes for the details though.
When dry-brushing, is it still best to water the paints down? Or is the fact that there is so little paint on the brush enough to mitigate the need?
