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2014/10/27 23:21:26
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
The 500th Backer arrives, and the Kickstarter passed up $66,000. The Stretch Goal for the Iguana was unlocked. Here follows the next, the Earth's F6-16 Frame:
Lighter alloys than the durasheet of Terra Nova Northern Gears and the ceramics used in Southern Gears, the Earth Frames are hover capable, hence the need for less armor to keep themselves capable of matching their hovertanks.
"After their failed invasion of Terra Nova, what the 'Novans referred to as 'the War of the Alliance', the Earth's Eighth Fleet returned crippled and battered to their bases on the hub world of Caprice. Generals and dignitaries alike all agreed that the ferocity of the 'Novan defenses was coupled with the ingenious use of the cheap but reliable Heavy Gears. Scientists, technicians and engineers immediately began taking apart and re-engineering parts of Gears that had been taken during the war, and they were finally able to employ a humanoid armored combat vehicle that was dubbed 'the Frame'.
The original F6-16 Frame was the prototype on which all other Frames would follow, and it is almost always assigned to a human pilot, although recent indoctrination of sub-specialized GREL pilots have begun to fill the ranks with this frighteningly fast war machine. The Frame itself is also employed by front-line commanders for command-and-control, and as an electronic warfare platform."
Creator Dream Pod 9 about 1 hour ago ... there are some haters out there.
This is the fundamental problem with DP9. I have seen it in private conversation with them too. To them, criticism is not motivated by a desire to improve the game or fix a problem. It is motivated by a desire to complain. If they get a lot of criticism from one person, it's not because that person cares about the game and wants it to improve, it's because that person hates them and the game, and wants it to fail.
I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more of an attempt at spin control for Robert's "hater" message. Who does something like that in the middle of a campaign exhorting folks to pledge money to the company they represent.
DP9Dave wrote: One thing is for certain is that there are almost 500 backers to the kickstarter who are now involved with the game and will be participants in the future of Heavy Gear.
Zond wrote: Lucky enough that all my close friends are into wargaming or some aspect of it, and we sometimes use Tomorrow's War with Epic or 40k figures, so if material is confirmed it's a strong option.
A point many of us keep trying to make is that no, the number of backers is not a guarantee that the people pledging will use the NuBlitz ruleset to game, will be able to find anyone willing to play, will join the forum community, or will even use the models beyond display/collection purposes. Additional sales from the store-front by the backers after the KS is not a certain thing either.
_ _
This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 22:20:09
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2014/10/28 13:17:27
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
I'm starting to wear down here. I actually enjoyed my time with HGB!, and I liked being able to take the easy route (focusing on combat) or to go hard core with rules like EW and inertia.
That is an awful lot of models to get for $115, regardless of how long it takes them to ship it. Hell, if they make it to $75,000 CAD, you'll have a decent little earth force to go along with your northern and Southern forces.
I'm not really very kickstarter-savvy. I know I will be moving in less than a year. Can I change my shipping address after I've backed the kickstarter?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 13:44:48
One of them filthy casuals...
2014/10/28 13:39:46
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Thanks for the response, Dave. I sincerely hope it ends up a more accurate description of the future than when I heard largely the same thing from the person in your shoes with the advent of Blitz. I'm glad to hear that the rules will always be a free PDF and have no problem with a more fluff filled premium version being offered for sale.
First, I have only anecdotal knowledge of the situation you describe having come to Heavy Gear about five years ago. Indeed most of the staff you mention are no longer with the company and have not been for some time. I don't speculate on what happened with the scale switch and the business reasons for doing so, we are now locked into the 1/144th scale which very much suits the scope and cost of the game. As a twenty year old company we have experienced a number of waves of staff, all of which have left for a variety of reasons. Right now we are stable, and though reduced in numbers we are committed to this long process of re-engagement and reestablishment of trust with our customers.
We have made efforts to smooth the transition with the rules change-over first with downgrading the last field manuals to PDFs to ensure that players were not buying full field manuals just before a rules direction change of the scale that the beta is. Dream Pod 9, like every company out there now, is learning to deal with the new reality of instant information, instant feedback and the increased pace of development. Even the switch to the kickstarter model, while still respecting the brick and mortar stores that are the front line of miniature gaming, is a delicate balance to make.
We know that the beta rules will be updated several times before they can be locked down as the definitive core rules of the game. We are planning to maintain a Black and White PDF of the rules as a free download going into the future since this is becoming the industry standard. We are a company that sells miniatures and we want players to be able to access the most current rules through all the different formats without having lug a number of books/FAQ/Errata/updates to lug around and sort through.
Once the beta rules have undergone some more revisions it will depend on the reception and demand for a locked down version to be printed and even then there are reasons to offer a print on demand service for those who appreciate a paper copy. The simple fact is that doing all the work to lay out a book costs money and time which we would rather spend on artists, sculptors, and development. A living rule book allows us to make changes and save on those layout costs for multiple books.
We fully expect the Beta rules to remain Beta until the completion stage of this kickstarter and only then be available in a locked format PDF with all the factions represented. When it comes to published material there are several formats such as the Art of Heavy Gear books on special right now on DrivethroughRPG.com, and story line books. In other words we are looking at a number of solutions and will be surveying our customers to see what will work the best. We would rather produce a regular e-book or e-magazine of support material once or twice a year than a paper field manual that won't be able to be renewed again until after another rules cycle in 4-7 years. Never mind the risks the company takes printing large numbers of paper books in order to get the price down.
I think players themselves are more interested in spending the money on the models than the rules over and over again, regardless of what system you play. If we decide to move to a business model with a premium 'pay to download' e-book that includes all the background, and the free rules-only living rule book with a minimum of fluff then the players will have a choice. Players who want the current story included would only pay for the book once for a premium version and then future updates to the story line could be included with an update to the PDF. This will depend on the demand. Arkrite press will be producing lots of material for background through their focus on the RPG side of things. DP9 rules focus on the tactical combat level of detail and the supporting material will reflect that in what we publish.
So I'm sorry for your experiences in the past and I understand that you are cautious. My experience in the gaming industry has been on the retail side of things as both a floor employee and on the management side. I have over 15 years of experience helping with play tests and being a highly successful player of miniature games. I bring a lot of customer service experience to Dream Pod 9 and now have a lot of pull in helping determine the pace and direction of the rules. I understand that open communication with our customers is really important and that the era of the ivory tower of game designers is over. The quality of games is ever increasing and the gaming culture of the future will involve a very interactive approach involving a lot of participation directly with the players. This kind collaboration will become the norm for games that require a lot of high value components and you can see with the board game companies including players in designing updates the face of things to come. It doesn't mean that the executive decisions will by made by the customers but that the player experiences can now be directly transmitted to the designers who can grapple with the questions and lead a discussion in real time. I can clearly point to several examples in the HGB beta rules where player involvement has directly changed a rules for the better, and some cases where player responses have resulted in better presented rules or terminology.
Determining how much time is required for these discussions to happen will be a balancing act which we are learning about too. One thing is for certain is that there are almost 500 backers to the kickstarter who are now involved with the game and will be participants in the future of Heavy Gear. So go ahead and point out where we've failed in the past, we can't do anything about that but try to improve for the future. So I leave it to the players to choose if you want to support or not.
Thanks for the opportunity to start this discussion.
And to recap: Living free B&W beta rule book format is confirmed. Possible premium core rule book with fluff based on interest. Dream Pod 9, inc, is adapting and learning. The Kickstarter very much a success and improving all the time.
Cheers! Dave
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also once we have some samples of the Styrene that will be used for the models we will be able to post an update detailing the qualities of it to our backers.
Thanks! Dave
Automatically Appended Next Post: Iguana is unlocked!
Cheers! Dave
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: Does anyone know if these minis will have integrated bases?
The current metals are slotta style bases and minis but I'd assume that would change with the switch over to plastics. Dave would probably be the best person to answer that. I would say, though, that I'd strongly prefer to have separate bases and flat "feet" on the minis without any tongue in grove insertions personally.
ferrous wrote: Gee, I'm a new player, I wonder which one I should pick up? As opposed to: Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] [Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)] [Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)] Heavy Gear Blitz [2006] Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008] Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011] [Heavy Gear Blitz Beta (2014)]
Shouldn't that list also include the 1st and second editions of the RPG since they had the fully functional and independent minis rules as a section in the back of the books? We tried the RPG for a bit but usually ended up playing the minis game only in our group. If so, the edition cycle DP9 has had for the miniatures portion of Heavy Gear is:
Heavy Gear RPG 1st Ed [1995] Heavy Gear RPG 2nd Ed [1997] Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] [Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)] [Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)] Heavy Gear Blitz [2006] Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008] Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011] Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition (2013/2014/2015)
So... 9 editions in 20 years...and that is considering the "alpha" and "beta" and "Kickstarter" rules releases as a single evolving conglomerate edition. I knew it was alot but I don't think I've ever seen it listed year by year. I guess it is a good thing I missed the period between 1997 and 2006 specifically because of the 2nd edition RPG flip flop.
Albertorius, when you say you play the older rules, which particular set do you mean?
It is if the next step up in combat vehicles is a full on tank.
And it looks like on my daily check of the KS that folks are one average pledge away from the frames. Brandon needs some target practice, people! He can't just shoot at southerners all day!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 15:37:27
2014/10/28 16:14:06
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
I really appreciated Dave's well thought out replies on this thread.
As someone who's tried to get into Heavy Gear in the past, and left due to frustration I'm willing to take a chance on this game once more. I've pledged and am interested in seeing how this develops.
2014/10/28 16:37:30
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
warboss wrote:
The current metals are slotta style bases and minis but I'd assume that would change with the switch over to plastics. Dave would probably be the best person to answer that. I would say, though, that I'd strongly prefer to have separate bases and flat "feet" on the minis without any tongue in grove insertions personally.
A good question to ask warboss.
And it looks like on my daily check of the KS that folks are one average pledge away from the frames. Brandon needs some target practice, people! He can't just shoot at southerners all day!
Twelvecarpileup wrote:I really appreciated Dave's well thought out replies on this thread.
As someone who's tried to get into Heavy Gear in the past, and left due to frustration I'm willing to take a chance on this game once more. I've pledged and am interested in seeing how this develops.
You guys...
F6-16 has landed!
THANK YOU!
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/28 16:44:00
With regards to the bases we explored the idea of casting the bases with the miniatures but the mold real estate was better used on more weapon or pose options so we are going for the traditional black plastic bases on the side sorted into a baggie. We will get flat topped bases if required through the decision to include tabs or not is yet to be made as we are too early in the layout for the 3D models we have. Naturally some poses like a one leg standing pose is easier with a tab for gluing purposes.
Once we know these details there will be an update confirming them but in the mean time we won't speculate just to make noise.
We have more than enough to make noise about already.
Cheers!
Dave
2014/10/28 19:20:02
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Gee, I'm a new player, I wonder which one I should pick up? As opposed to: Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] [Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)] [Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)] Heavy Gear Blitz [2006] Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008] Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011] [Heavy Gear Blitz Beta (2014)]
Shouldn't that list also include the 1st and second editions of the RPG since they had the fully functional and independent minis rules as a section in the back of the books? We tried the RPG for a bit but usually ended up playing the minis game only in our group. If so, the edition cycle DP9 has had for the miniatures portion of Heavy Gear is:
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear RPG 1st Ed [1995] Heavy Gear RPG 2nd Ed [1997] Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] [Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)] [Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)] Heavy Gear Blitz [2006] Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008] Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011] Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition (2013/2014/2015)
So... 9 editions in 20 years...and that is considering the "alpha" and "beta" and "Kickstarter" rules releases as a single evolving conglomerate edition. I knew it was a lot but I don't think I've ever seen it listed year by year. I guess it is a good thing I missed the period between 1997 and 2006 specifically because of the 2nd edition RPG flip flop.
True enough, you could likewise add in the products & Gear Up emags that introduced or consolidated new rules and/or factions for stretches when the main books were delayed:
Old Company: Partial list, with miniature oriented products noted in red. (For the pre-Blitz! mini rules the Tactical & RPG sourcebooks still provided varying amounts of model data used in game.):
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear RPG (1st Ed) [July 1995] Field Guide(s): Northern Vehicles 1 & Southern Vehicles 1 [Dec 1995] Field Guide(s): Northern Vehicles 2 & Southern Vehicles 2 [April 1996] Tactical Air Support [May 1996] Duelist's Handbook (1st edition) [Aug 1996] Tactical Field Support: Artillery & Ground Warfare [Oct 1996] Southern Army List One: Southern Republic (No other books were published in this format.) [Nov 1996] Northern Vehicle Compendium One: Gears & Striders [Dec 1996] Southern Vehicle Compendium One: Gears & Striders [Jan 1997] Northern Record Sheets One & Southern Record Sheets One: Gears & Striders [Feb 1997] The New Breed: Battle Before The Storm (Activision PC game tie-in #1.) [Sep 1997] Heavy Gear RPG (2nd Ed) [Dec 1997] Northern Vehicles Compendium Two & Southern Vehicles Compendium Two: Tanks & Artillery [Feb 1998] Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] Terranovan Military Powers Book One: Northern Guard [Aug 1998] Tactical Pack One: Battle of Two Towers [Dec 1998] Tactical Pack Two: Shadow War [March 1999] Armor Pack Volume One: Tanks and Striders [May 1999] Terranovan Military Powers Book Two: Southern MILICIA [Aug 1999] Tactical Pack Three: Operation Sudden Fire [October 1999] Black Talon - Mission to Caprice (Activision PC game tie-in #2.) [Jan 2000] Tactical Space Support - Space Warfare [March 2000] Duelist's Handbook (2nd edition) [Dec 2000] Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules [Feb 2001] Earth Book One: Colonial Expeditionary Force [April 2001] Raids & Raiders - Interstellar Strikes (Miniatures Supplement) [June 2001] Tactical Dueling - Arena Champions (Miniatures Supplement) [Oct 2001] Heavy Gear Player's Handbook (3rd Edition) [Sep 2003] Heavy Gear Vehicle Companion (3rd Edition) [Jany 2004]
New Company:
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules [2005]
(DP9 ceased producing RPGs between 2006 - 2008 for their entire game catalog, including Heavy Gear.)
Heavy Gear Blitz [Aug 2006] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Hammers of Faith (North) [Dec 2006] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Swords of Pride (South) [Mar 2007] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Shields of Freedom (Peace River) [Dec 2007]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [May 2008] - Black Talon: Return to Cat's Eye (Caprice, CEF, Black Talons) [May 2009] - Shattered Peace: The War for Terra Nova Book 1 (Eden) [2010] - Terra Nova Gambit: The War for Terra Nova Book 2 (Utopia) [2010] - Gear Up (Utopian rules primer & template, Field Testing: Defense Modifiers, Errata) [Issue 1 - Spring 2010] pdf - Gear Up (Medical Support Section rules, The Drop Bears Diggers rules, Field Testing: Revised Range Bands, Errata, Quick Reference Flowcharts) [Issue 2 - Summer 2010] pdf - Gear Up (Field Testing: HHT-90 Combat Group & Multi-Component Vehicle Rules, Field Testing: New Overkill Rules, Revisions & Errata, Southern Medical Support Section, PRDF Medical Section, PAK/CEF Medical Section) [Issue 3 - Winter 2010] pdf - Gear Up (Combat Engineering Companies, Official Rules: New Heavy Hover Tank combat group) [Issue 4 - Summer 2011] pdf - Gear Up (Captain Alston Ash-Dreyes: NuCoal Special Character) [Issue 5 - Winter 2012] pdf - Gear Up (Lieutenant Colonel Mikhaela Moore: NuCoal Special Character, Constable Keiko Hijikawa: Drake Pilot & Ace Special Character) [Issue 6 - Spring 2013] pdf
Heavy Gear Arena (Unsupported after release save for a Gear Up article or two.) [2010]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual (Consolidation of Gear Up field testing rules with a partial reprint of Locked & Loaded) [Nov 2011] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Perfect Storm; NuCoal Field Guide [Nov 2011] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Forged in Fire; Southern Field Guide [~late Dec 2012] - Heavy Gear Blitz! Blood Debt; Peace River Army List [Dec 2013] pdf - Heavy Gear Blitz! Lion's Wrath; Northern Army List [June 2014] pdf
Heavy Gear Badlands Rally (Unsupported stand-alone tabletop game introducing rule concepts similar to the Alpha/Beta ruleset) [2013]
Heavy Gear Blitz! Field Support Guide (Consolidation of Gear Up material & unsupported factions to Field Manual rules) [2014] pdf
Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition [~late 2012/2013/2014/2015]
_ _
This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 22:15:57
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2014/10/29 03:25:38
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
I see you have identified the need for a living rule book to create a stable, yet flexible, product that can adapt to the steadily increasing line of models.... Boy have I got great news for you!
Cheers!
Dave
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/29 03:28:25
2014/10/29 03:47:34
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
RJVF wrote: I know a little bit about the plastics industry, having worked in it for awhile, and the numbers don't seem right to get a finished injection mould and run production with it. By the stretch numbers, they are figuring $5000 per tool (figuring 1 sprue per model, each sprue will be a separate tool), and not simple tools at that. I can't see them funding that much tool and die making and running profitable production runs with those numbers. A production run of a 1000 is not a big one for any injection shop, so its not like DP9 will be a priority customer unless its a very small shop.
paulson games wrote: Another concern is even the base funding level isn't going to afford them the ability to do plastics through the KS funds alone, not a problem if they are using it in combination with other funding sources but if it's being drawn exclusively from KS their base goal is far short of what they'll actually need.
Although Dave says different, I have no independent reason to have faith in his opinion for material the company has never used, but this could very well be why Stretch Goals #9 & #10 seem like such a $$$ grab for essentially nothing. I'm curious to know if knowledgeable folks think an extra $18K CAD is enough of a contingency fund to cover for everywhere the company's estimates are off or might be off?
DP9Dave wrote: There was a comment about the mold costs compared to the length of the stretch goals. We have done an incredible amount of diligence with regards to how the molds will be constructed and costed. As the biggest capital purchase that will result from the Kickstarter we have investigated the process and the costs very seriously. The biggest risks to the KS was that the mold costs would get out of hand, or we would promise more than was feasible for our fulfillment schedule. We have received enough information now to be certain of including at least two additional weapons for each model pus some alternate poses for legs and arms.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I can be swayed to share the viewpoints of Dream Pod 9 and your absolute supporters. My only interest in anything for current HG has been helping to make potential consumers/investors aware of real, actual problems that existed in the past and continue to exist in the present.
In my opinion expecting the consumers/investors to not only pay for the company's products but to also be the ones to advertise for the company instead of being a minor adjunct to a sustained professional effort not only makes for poor exposure, it is also poor business practice.
_ _
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 22:11:03
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2014/10/29 04:54:23
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Multiple folks advised the Pod of the need to advertise before the KS went live, and neither you nor Robert did so.
Multiple folks advised the Pod of the need to advertise on more industry sites after the KS went live, and you or Robert have barely posted up to, or sent news to, half-a-dozen'ish sites almost a week after the fact.
_
_
I'm sorry, why are these two problems?
I mean, maybe they are to you, but they don't affect my desire to back at all.
Nor are they by any means necessary to run a successful KS campaign.
2014/10/29 05:29:44
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
cincydooley wrote: I'm sorry, why are these two problems? I mean, maybe they are to you, but they don't affect my desire to back at all. Nor are they by any means necessary to run a successful KS campaign.
The problem I see is that every time the company comes out with a product or idea they virtually never bother to promote it outside of their own forums and Facebook page, or even between those two venues in a coherent manner. Their campaign had 164 backers on Thursday, 209 on Friday, but only 28 on Sunday - expecting word of mouth to make up for not promoting the KS themselves either isn't cutting it or anyone willing to back them has already done so for the most part. Yet the Pod keeps doing this same thing to hinder their potential successes over and over, despite the fact that both of the people who currently make up the company have a background in marketing or retail.
This was also just one example of the kind of counter-productive things DP9 keeps doing, even when pointed out to them by one of their supporters. If any company can't be bothered to do something this basic, what else can't they be bothered to do.
I do not think what the company, game, setting, or past and present fans/players need is any more salespeople offering only a string of snow-job missives filled with partial truths and hype. To truly change, which can apply to any company with this kind of history really, individuals dedicated to simply living up to their word by doing what they say are needed.
Admittedly no one is perfect, human beings are flawed and for the most part do not lead innocent or even largely blameless lives. That being said, it should never be acceptable to be carrying on in a manner contrary to what is being said even in the most minor of things yet repeatedly be asking folks to hand over money in good faith.
As a final thought; I do not think it unreasonable to be concerned to the point of disinterest if I look into something and find that a person or persons worthy of respect who laid the groundwork for everything that followed have chosen to no longer continue along whatever path the project took.
_ _
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 22:21:45
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2014/10/29 05:33:41
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Smilodon_UP wrote: You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I can be swayed to share the viewpoints of Dream Pod 9 and your absolute supporters.
Then why the hell are you still posting here? I have absolutely no love for DP9 having been burned by them in the past (at least they still freaking MAKE your game!), but there's already a thread for this line-by-line argument, air-all-past-grievances crap and it was linked in the first response to this topic. I'd kind of like to hear discussion about the kickstarter itself, not read through page after page of how a couple posters feel they were single-handedly utterly ignored last time just because now they have a company rep posting. I'd rather the rep stick around and "You won't convince me ever" isn't exactly a healthy stance to discuss a topic over. I don't want a fanboi-only, all-is-honey-and-cupcakes-and-sunshine reaction, but maybe just a little less "everything you've done is wrong and I told you so!" in the thread would be pretty fantastic.
Personally, I'm pleased enough with how this is proceeding that I've pledged DP9 some money for the first time in nearly a decade, for a game system I had only a passing interest in before and as long as the KS does eventually deliver (and I fully expect it to be a year+ late) then I consider it worth it. If you don't then you don't, but attacking a rep the first time he starts posting here probably won't really help the rest of us get new info out of him.
Honestly, most people should know what to expect out of DP9 by now, they have a history that's been pretty well established even just in this very thread. At this point you either accept that and back anyways or pass up the KS because you know better, but it's getting pretty difficult to find actual news when you need to sift through even more of these same posts that were beaten to death in the 50+ page thread and on other forums
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 05:45:47
I think the point Smilodon's trying to make is that DP9 talks the talk, as they always have, but to trust them for actually walking the walk this time, is kind of going out on a limb.
Anyway, let's check the "we mean it this time !" DP9 list.
Blaming the previous designers for the current issues ? Check and check.
Claiming that this time they're listening to feedback, when just last month, critical posts were being pruned of the official boards ? Check.
Asking for trust and support, because this time they'll be able to deliver ? Check.
I could go on and on, but it'd be pointless. I'll just point to Paladium's very successful kickstarter campaign as an example of what happens when a company with history tries something they've never done before.
Virtus in extremis
2014/10/29 08:42:29
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Whilst any issues with previous actions concerning relevant parties any worth raising I think the issue has been covered so it'd be better if that particular tangent was dropped for now.
As ever when indulging oneself with some toy soldiers caveat emptor should be borne in mind.
Best of luck with the campaign
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2014/10/29 08:48:07
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Love the art design/world. It's just that the Blitz rules are pretty much unplayable (sorry).
The 2nd edition miniature rules are excellent, and yes, they'll work great with 8-9 models on the table. When I got Blitz, I too was told that it would be the standard rules for years to come and then they replaced it with a new edition right away and I haven't been back since. I have a couple gaming buddies who have all the 1st and 2nd ed books (both RPG and minaitures) and we play it a couple times a year at cons/club nights and probably should play it more regularly (too many games vying for our attention!).
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
2014/10/29 11:50:34
Subject: Re:Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Please allow me to point out a very useful tool and a reward that some might miss out on if I don't point it out.
The Faction Army Set.
Not everyone has the cash to afford the full Core Starter Set. If you would like instead just to get a run on the models that are in each individual faction, you may do the following.
1. Go to the Kickstarter.
2. Pledge $1. (Canadian currency.) You may see a charge under your card, but none of this money leaves your personal bank account until the Kickstarter ends November 22.
3. Go to the Kickstarter calculator with Fundafull.
4. Here is the direct link. I do not know if it operates without you pledging first, but I will share it here with everyone for completeness' sake.
https://www.fundafull.com/projects/dream-pod-9/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set/pledge-calculator/ 5. Select your home nation.
6. Scroll down to 'Rewards Available'.
7. Click on the second Gear Pilot level, 'Gear Pilot Level with Add-ons Available'. This should have $16 next to it.
This reward level will allow you to show your support and see all the Kickstarter updates. Plus it unlocks Add-Ons Available below, for you to add to your pledge. The $16 includes the $1 Gear Pilot Level pledge plus $15 shipping for US and Canadian Backers. International Backers will have deferred shipping cost (the actual shipping cost minus the $15 paid as part of this reward level)
8. Scroll down to Add-ons Available.
9. Scroll down near the bottom. Just above the $80 Basic Starter Set is, currently, the Northern Army Set and Southern Army Set.
10. Click on that and select how many you want.
The Pledge Calculator will tell you how much you should pledge for the number of Army Sets you want.
The Northern Army Set includes the following:
4x Hunters, 4x Jaguars, 2x Grizzlies, 2x Cheetahs
The Southern Army Set, predictably, includes:
4x Jagers, 4x Black Mambas, 2x Spitting Cobras, 2x Iguanas
Now, if you select the $1 Gear Pilot Pledge, you can add $80 to the Pledge, and the Earth (CEF) Army Set will include the following:
2x MHT-95s, 2x FLAIL squads, 2x F6-16 Frames, and (when they unlock) 2x BF2-21 Frames
The Faction Army Set deal also includes any 1 each of additional Northern, Southern, or Earth miniatures that are unlocked in later stages.
For the North that includes:
1x Ferret, 1x Tiger, 1x Kodiak
The South:
1x Sidewinder, 1X King Cobra
The CEF:
1x BF2-19, 1x BF2-25
And if the Backers break even further, the Caprice Army Set includes 4x Bashan Mounts with the conversion parts to make them Aphek heavy scout Mounts, Kadesh heavy trooper Mounts, or Meggido assault Mounts, plus the unseen Acco Mount.
For comparison, the current non-sale price for one Meggido Mount in resin and metal in Canadian currency is $30.28 ($27 in American currency).
For a pair of Bashans in resin and metal, $29.16 Canadian currency.
For one Kadesh, $26.79.
For one Aphek, $23.55.
The current non-sale price for a Fusilier (the equivalent of the MHT-95 in size) is $24.67 in Canadian currency.
The current non-sale price for one BF2-19 in metal is $26.79 CAD.
For two BF2-21s in metal, $37.01.
So, for $81 ($1 plus the $15 shipping in America and Canada, or whatever deferred expense the VAT is in nations elsewhere), the Faction Army Sets are not a bad deal for you to explore.
I hope this helps.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/29 12:01:51
Let yourself go for the Pledge, got two Warhammer 40K players that really love playing Heavy Gear with the Beta rules! I have someone else at my gaming club that will take take the plunge.
2014/10/29 16:12:08
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
I like telling people just pledge for $1, get the updates and let the update messages rolling and maybe something will twig your interest. If you're not sure you want to go all in by yourself find a friend and get them to go splits.
We've now spoiled that there will be some secret interim goals that will get unlocked as we get closer to the Mounts so keep an eye out for them!
Cheers!
Dave
2014/10/29 16:35:51
Subject: Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter
Can I just say, I am all about healthy skepticism... but coming in neutral, with no experience with any of the parties involved... this thread reads like a mountain of angry, sour grapes on the part of a couple posters, and with DP9Dave coming across as a normal poster, making an effort to share information.
I appreciate that it COULD be all smoke and mirrors, but i've got to say, he's coming across looking reasonable, and making this company/product look pretty good.
As value keeps getting added here, i'm thinking this might prove too tempting to pass up. Its a Kickstarter, so I always go in expecting delays and such... but I am also seeing some cool looking renders for a mountain of models that look more interesting to me than that round of Reaper Bones ones which just came and went.
The Stretch Goal for the Iguana was unlocked. Here follows the next, the Earth's F6-16 Frame:
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)