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Greetings, I recently was reading up/playing around with Blood Ravens and Tau lore in general, and can't help but feel they both seem to strongly be influenced by the Soviet Union during WW2. Do any of you have any other comparisons or agree/disagree?

the tau have a "greater good" socialist aspect to them, so kind of, but blood ravens are just theives who come from possibly the thousand sons, so no.

Tau arent comunist ,but sosialist , comunism is a aspect of sosialism so in a way yes.but nazim was sosialism too (national sosialism) so we cant say that are nazis or commies
Tau are near of plato's "ideal society" whithit states that all we sould work where we are good for the GREATER GOOD of society , near tau ideas doent it

blood ravens well i dont know...why like the soviets?

Tau are utilitarinan, to a T.

The Imperial Guard is the most Soviet-inspired force in the game.

Seriously. Commisars. To shoot you if you don't fight.

Tau also have elements of other communism-inspired societies. For example, their approach to child-rearing is a more extreme version of the Kibbutzim.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Tau also have elements of other communism-inspired societies. For example, their approach to child-rearing is a more extreme version of the Kibbutzim.

Or Sparta. Or the Sebaceans of Farscape.

Tahril wrote:
Greetings, I recently was reading up/playing around with Blood Ravens and Tau lore in general, and can't help but feel they both seem to strongly be influenced by the Soviet Union during WW2. Do any of you have any other comparisons or agree/disagree?

Everything in this game was inspired by sonething else.

Tau arent comunist ,but sosialist , comunism is a aspect of sosialism so in a way yes.but nazim was sosialism too (national sosialism) so we cant say that are nazis or commies

Just because they used the word does not mean they practiced it. They didn't, either. There's nothing socialist about a centralized government of that magnitude.

Besides, the Tau aren't really all that socialist. Utilitarianist, yes, with every part in its place, performing its role, to the exclusion of any concept of self-expression or self-determination.

Well, they did control the means of production, so you could argue that it is socialist...

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, they did control the means of production, so you could argue that it is socialist...

Except the Earth Caste doesn't really, they simply appear to. The Ethereals are the ones really at the top of the pile, as the "Leader Caste" (and a caste system is about as un-Socialist as you can get), and seem to receive deference/veneration from every other member of the community (again, this is not a thing for Socialism).

 Psienesis wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, they did control the means of production, so you could argue that it is socialist...

Except the Earth Caste doesn't really, they simply appear to. The Ethereals are the ones really at the top of the pile, as the "Leader Caste" (and a caste system is about as un-Socialist as you can get), and seem to receive deference/veneration from every other member of the community (again, this is not a thing for Socialism).

it isnt? democracy has socialist whith are politicians, and here in Greece politicians are the a leade caste as they make the choices and law isnst like commones( if someone politician do a crime it cant count as a crime , it counts only if other politicians say it) i think is a way similar to other countires.
Also Tau have their homes, not state's homes as is in comunism, but as is in the idea of socialism
But i dont believe that are 100% socialist either

 Psienesis wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, they did control the means of production, so you could argue that it is socialist...

Except the Earth Caste doesn't really, they simply appear to. The Ethereals are the ones really at the top of the pile, as the "Leader Caste" (and a caste system is about as un-Socialist as you can get), and seem to receive deference/veneration from every other member of the community (again, this is not a thing for Socialism).

By the same logic, The High Lords of Terra own literally everything in the IoM.

Only instead of having their Empire owned by thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions/tens of millions (we have no idea how many Ethereals there are) the entirety of an Imperium thousands of times bigger than the Tau is split between twelve individuals.

... and a corpse, if you want to count him.

Of course, the Ethereals also seem to take more council from the leaders of the other Castes than the High Lords do, since the Tau codex begins any high-level decision with something to the effect of "The Ethereals convened leaders of the Castes to discuss the situation," indicating that the castes are respected by the Ethereals to one degree or another, which is the opposite of what the High lords feel to anyone who isn't a High lord of part of *their* Caste.

it isnt? democracy has socialist whith are politicians, and here in Greece politicians are the a leade caste as they make the choices and law isnst like commones( if someone politician do a crime it cant count as a crime , it counts only if other politicians say it) i think is a way similar to other countires.

If your voting citizens are not leading with their vote, then your democracy isn't working. Politicians who start thinking they're the "ruling class" need to get voted out of office, as an object lesson that a democratic government derives its power and authority from the people it governs, and is, in turn, controlled and limited by those very same people.

By the same logic, The High Lords of Terra own literally everything in the IoM.

No, the Emperor owns everything. It all belongs to Him on Terra. Every man, woman and child. Every tank, space ship, bike and Land Speeder. Every work of human innovation and construction. All of it is the Emperor's. Life is the Emperor's coin, spend it well.

However, never have I posited that the Imperium is, at the highest levels, any kind of democracy or even slightly-liberal government. It's not, it's a theocratic dictatorship.

so....to sum up for the OP , Tau arent communists, other things, yes, not comunies.Thats we all think right?

 Pada wrote:
so....to sum up for the OP , Tau arent communists, other things, yes, not comunies.Thats we all think right?

Pretty much. There are no real links to the Soviet Union other than a totalitarian government and influence on the lore by Orwell. The Tau are imperialists with a rigid caste system, you could argue whether that part is influenced by India, Britain or both.

The means of production are controlled for the benefit of all castes in the Tau Empire. In that sense, the Tau are Marxist.

However, there are also influences from Sikh ideology (castes), British Imperial history (trade as a means to expansion), Plato's Republic (philosopher kings ruling society), Japanese aesthetics and history (armour, battlesuits, parts of the language, warrior code, castes), Native American stuff (military tactics based around hunting) and some stuff nicked directly from other science fiction writing.

The Tau are probably less like the Soviet Union than the Imperium is, at the end of the day.

But what about the blood ravens? I really dont get it....is it because:red army=red army of space marines?

Because Blood Ravens and Communists alike don't believe in the concept of personal property, I guess?

What is a Space Marine going to do with wealth in the first place? They exist as soldiers and nothing else.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
What is a Space Marine going to do with wealth in the first place? They exist as soldiers and nothing else.

Yeah, I'm a little confused on this also. Space Marines don't really "own" anything, it all belongs to the chapter.

There are some exceptions (though these are basically just heirlooms, like the Sword of Secrets) / some places where Marines refer to "their armor" and how they've worn it for a very long time, but they seem to understand that nothing is really THEIRS.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
What is a Space Marine going to do with wealth in the first place? They exist as soldiers and nothing else.

Most Space Marines have a kind of chapter-loyalty possessiveness that drives them to do stupid things like launch crusades to recover magic swords because said sword rightfully belongs to the Chapter.

Blood Ravens launch crusades to recover magic swords that belong to other chapters.

True, but are magic swords to be considered "wealth" in the same way owning a factory would?

It is if you are going to try to take Calgar's crown of "Blingiest of the Blingmasters, Those Who Bling the Most Bling-bling".

Pimp Daddy isn't ever getting off that throne, unless the Nids nom him off it.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
What is a Space Marine going to do with wealth in the first place? They exist as soldiers and nothing else.

Most Space Marines have a kind of chapter-loyalty possessiveness that drives them to do stupid things like launch crusades to recover magic swords because said sword rightfully belongs to the Chapter.

Blood Ravens launch crusades to recover magic swords that belong to other chapters.

In Part...

The main thing of the Blood Ravens is that they supposedly don't know anything about their origins (Primginator legion, Primarch etc.) so they quest to find that and all knowledge possible (which has the side-quest of gaining the most bling 8) ). The 'supposed' truth behind their origins is sinister, however, as their practices and high number of librarians (and their motto, "Knowledge is power") are shared from the Thousand Sons Legion. There has been circumstantial evidence to corroborate with this, and the fact that after the Dark Crusade, 4th Company Captain Davian Thule found ancient chapter records on Kronus, but was so shock by it that he destroyed them, never to tell anyone the extent of them. Much like the Dark Angels don't want people knowing half their legion turned traitor, the secret of the Blood Ravens may in fact be their origins from a loyalist splinter of the Thousand sons.