Sikh Student May Carry Religious Dagger to class

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**Ouze**

Prestor Jon wrote:
The schools I attended for K-12 in TX, PA and NJ didn't have any nor do the schools in my county in NC. I've heard of them being in some of the inner city schools in NJ but never actually seen one. I realize some schools do have them but it certainly seems to be a minority.

They were in my school when I lived in NYC.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

dogma wrote:

Many Sikh's cut their hair and forgo turbans for a variety of reasons while still remaining Sihks, so clearly adherence to symbols of the Kesh is not universally required; even if some elements of the religion lament its absence.

Exactly, some Sikh people forgo the Dastar, so thank you for the exception, not the rule.

However, we (I) was talking about a Sikh that does wear a dastar, so an article about those that don't doesn't really prove anything other than not every sing Sikh follows every single tenant of their religion (which is no different than anyone else really). Also, you too are not in the position to state what is and is not required by another person's faith either.

**Ensis Ferrae**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

However, we (I) was talking about a Sikh that does wear a dastar, so an article about those that don't doesn't really prove anything other than not every sing Sikh follows every single tenant of their religion (which is no different than anyone else really). Also, you too are not in the position to state what is and is not required by another person's faith either.

Living up here near Seattle, I do see quite a few Sikhs and, like many minority groups in this area, they do gravitate towards the more traditional aspects of their culture. Not so much as them being "insular" but rather, they see the display and following of their religious tenets as being very important and set them apart from other people. Especially in this day where it is seemingly "OK" to discriminate against Islam/Mulims, "brown" people who aren't followers of Islam probably feel the need to do more things that look like a sign that says, "NOT A MUSLIM!!". What's probably more sad is that there are those out there who are so ignorant they cannot tell the difference between the Sikh Turban, and the Bedouin turban (they are functionally, structurally, and aesthetically very different), or cannot tell the difference between the follower of one religion over another.

As to Jihadin's comment on page 1 of children not really having "rights" until they are 18, I pretty much thought the same thing... As in, they "have" freedom of speech, but until they are 18, it is somewhat limited by the State in the name of getting an education. They "have" the right to bear arms, however they cannot actually purchase their own arms until 18, and DEFINITELY cannot carry to school.

As to the actual issue in the OP, I personally think that the Sikhs should be allowed to carry their religious knives in to class. I cannot recall, and seriously doubt that there has EVER been an issue with it being used in school, much less drawn.

**Prestor Jon**

Ouze wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
The schools I attended for K-12 in TX, PA and NJ didn't have any nor do the schools in my county in NC. I've heard of them being in some of the inner city schools in NJ but never actually seen one. I realize some schools do have them but it certainly seems to be a minority.

They were in my school when I lived in NYC.

Huh, I guess the suburbs I've lived in were more atypical than I realized. I had friends in HS in NJ that had transferred in from PS109 in NY and I thought they didn't have them either but I could just be mistaken. I've also mostly been in older schools that hadn't changed much since my classmates parents attended, no two way intercoms in classrooms or central air, etc.

Regardless, it's still an issue of intent much more so than one of possession. If somebody really wants to hurt people he/she will find a way to do so and if somebody doesn't then it really doesn't matter what they might be carrying in their pocket.

Schools are safer than they used to be and there's no indication that the trend is going to stop. Given that the vast majority of students have no inclination to harm their classmates there really isn't a need to ban things like pocket knives since there's no reason to believe that students would suddenly be motivated to hurt each other.

USAToday

By nearly every measure, safety has improved and violence has dropped for students and teachers, according to recent findings issued jointly by the Justice Department and Education Department:•Since 1992, the rate of "victimization," which includes violent crimes such as assault and rape as well as non-violent crimes such as robbery, purse-snatching and pickpocketing, has plummeted, from 181.5 incidents per 1,000 students to 49.2 per 1,000 in 2011, the latest complete year for which statistics are available.

•Overall, the number of reported "non-fatal victimizations" has dropped by 71%, from 4.3 million in 1992 to 1.2 million in 2011.

•During the 2009-2010 school year, researchers found 1,396 homicides with victims ages 5 to 18. Of those, only 19 took place at school. During the 2010 calendar year, only three of the reported 1,456 youth suicides took place at school.

•Though rare, homicides, suicides and deaths involving intervention by police at school or on the way to or from school dropped 46%, from 57 in the 1992-1993 school year to 31 in the 2010-2011 school year. Over 19 years, researchers counted 863 deaths, or about 45 per year.

Researchers attribute the decline in school violence to a handful of measures:

•Heightened awareness of a school's culture, including how safe students feel there and how well they get along with teachers and classmates.

•A renewed focus on bullying and mental health issues, with teachers trained to spot troubled kids and intervene before bullying incidents get out of hand.

•Simple security steps such as locking exterior school doors, requiring all visitors to check in at the front office and offering students easy, anonymous ways to report classmates' threats.

**Frazzled**

If I'm going to hurt you, its not with a pocket knife. I'm thinking spring loaded angry wiener dog in your locker. Open the door and BAM BITEBITEBITEBITE!

When you care enough to send the best, send Dachshundskrieg.

**Prestor Jon**

Frazzled wrote:
If I'm going to hurt you, its not with a pocket knife. I'm thinking spring loaded angry wiener dog in your locker. Open the door and BAM BITEBITEBITEBITE!

When you care enough to send the best, send Dachshundskrieg.

Wiener dogs, bred to crawl into badger burrows and defeat those ferocious beasts on their home turf. You'd attack another human being with one of those genetically engineered killing machines? You are indeed a ruthless and merciless adversary, you have my respect.

**Frazzled**

The honor, is to serve.

**CptJake**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

As to the actual issue in the OP, I personally think that the Sikhs should be allowed to carry their religious knives in to class. I cannot recall, and seriously doubt that there has EVER been an issue with it being used in school, much less drawn.

One of the arguments I've seen against allowing teachers who choose to conceal carry is that the availability of the weapon in the classroom potentially allows some disgruntled student to cap whomever he/she is upset at when they take the gun from the teacher.

I suppose the same argument could be used against allow the Sikh kid to bring his dagger. He may not ever be prone to use it, but someone else could take it from him and start a stabbing and slicing spree.

If we can't trust an adult to have a weapon and keep it from kids, how do we expect a kid to do so?

**Ensis Ferrae**

CptJake wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:

As to the actual issue in the OP, I personally think that the Sikhs should be allowed to carry their religious knives in to class. I cannot recall, and seriously doubt that there has EVER been an issue with it being used in school, much less drawn.

One of the arguments I've seen against allowing teachers who choose to conceal carry is that the availability of the weapon in the classroom potentially allows some disgruntled student to cap whomever he/she is upset at when they take the gun from the teacher.

I suppose the same argument could be used against allow the Sikh kid to bring his dagger. He may not ever be prone to use it, but someone else could take it from him and start a stabbing and slicing spree.

If we can't trust an adult to have a weapon and keep it from kids, how do we expect a kid to do so?

In some ways I agree with you... In others, not so much... The number of HS kids who could do what would be necessary to disarm me, if I were carrying, is SERIOUSLY low. And if a teacher is CCing in class (provided they are allowed to), and a student can get it that easily, it's not really concealed

Perhaps if teachers were allowed firearms in class, the school district would be "forced" to issue them the pistols from Skyfall, with the palm print scanner thing, and register it to the teacher for the year. This way, even if a student gets ahold of it, all theyve really got is a medium sized paperweight, or seriously small "club"

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Does the blade have to be metal? Could it not just be, say. rubber?

**Ensis Ferrae**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Does the blade have to be metal? Could it not just be, say. rubber?

If that's the case, might as well make it electrodes.... a Tazer knife!!

**Boyofdestiny205**

Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
I always carry a knife to school. As does almost every kid in my school. No accident has ever happened. I think people are hugely overreacting. Once again, I do not get the seemingly self-contradictory American attitude to weapons. You guys have a serious love-hate relationship going on

In this case, forbidding a Sikh to wear that dagger is the same as forbidding a Muslim to wear a headscarf.

Wait aren't you Russian? I thought all Russians brought T-34s to school, just in case the hitlerites get uppity again.

"Russia" is Russian for "don't with us" [

Frazzled wrote:If I'm going to hurt you, its not with a pocket knife. I'm thinking spring loaded angry wiener dog in your locker. Open the door and BAM BITEBITEBITEBITE!

When you care enough to send the best, send Dachshundskrieg.

Damn it Frazzled!!!! I had something I wanted to add to the conversation and then you post things like this and I just end up laughing and completely forget what I was thinking about.

Then I spend the next couple of hours looking for spring loaded wiener dog launchers.

**Bullockist**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Living up here near Seattle, I do see quite a few Sikhs and, like many minority groups in this area, they do gravitate towards the more traditional aspects of their culture. Not so much as them being "insular" but rather, they see the display and following of their religious tenets as being very important and set them apart from other people. Especially in this day where it is seemingly "OK" to discriminate against Islam/Mulims, "brown" people who aren't followers of Islam probably feel the need to do more things that look like a sign that says, "NOT A MUSLIM!!". What's probably more sad is that there are those out there who are so ignorant they cannot tell the difference between the Sikh Turban, and the Bedouin turban (they are functionally, structurally, and aesthetically very different), or cannot tell the difference between the follower of one religion over another.

.

Interestingly In Sydney I have found almost the complete opposite. I have found sikhs to be extremely secular in attitude even if they wear a turban and do not cut their hair.

It is sad that in this current age people cannot tell the diference between sikhs and muslims. I guess they are all brown .... even though they are caucasian

**Frazzled**

CptJake wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:

As to the actual issue in the OP, I personally think that the Sikhs should be allowed to carry their religious knives in to class. I cannot recall, and seriously doubt that there has EVER been an issue with it being used in school, much less drawn.

One of the arguments I've seen against allowing teachers who choose to conceal carry is that the availability of the weapon in the classroom potentially allows some disgruntled student to cap whomever he/she is upset at when they take the gun from the teacher.

I suppose the same argument could be used against allow the Sikh kid to bring his dagger. He may not ever be prone to use it, but someone else could take it from him and start a stabbing and slicing spree.

If we can't trust an adult to have a weapon and keep it from kids, how do we expect a kid to do so?

Give all the kids machetes? Or just call Machete...
http://www.impawards.com/2010/machete_ver9.html