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So I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but when it says " if any model is partially or fully under the blast". It is referring to the base of the model , correct? Not an arm, leg or any other part of the actual model, correct?

base of model if based, model if not based.

models must come on the bases they are supplied with.

Ok thanks, that's what I thought.

blaktoof wrote:
base of model if based, model if not based.

models must come on the bases they are supplied with.

Its actually either or.

If a part of the model, or a part of the models base is under the marker, that model is hit.

If the model has a base, then you use the base. If it doesn't l then you use the model. That's how I'm reading it

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
If the model has a base, then you use the base.

There is no such rule in 7th edition.

That's how it used to work, however.

Well some where near where the basic rules are( don't have a page number) it talks about using the base for measurements and determining if it is under the template/ blast. Says use base for all intents and purposes .

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well some where near where the basic rules are( don't have a page number) it talks about using the base for measurements and determining if it is under the template/ blast. Says use base for all intents and purposes .

For measurement, yes. For determining if a model is under a blast marker or template you simply use the model, with a clarification that the base is a part of the model.

What he's saying is that you are "measuring" to see if the blast template hits.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
What he's saying is that you are "measuring" to see if the blast template hits.

And what he's being told is no, you're not.

You're looking at which models are under a marker. Rules for measuring distances between models have nothing to do with that.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well some where near where the basic rules are( don't have a page number) it talks about using the base for measurements and determining if it is under the template/ blast. Says use base for all intents and purposes .

The underlined isn't actually a rule anywhere.
If you still think you're correct, I challenge you to find the rule.

rigeld2 wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well some where near where the basic rules are( don't have a page number) it talks about using the base for measurements and determining if it is under the template/ blast. Says use base for all intents and purposes .

The underlined isn't actually a rule anywhere.
If you still think you're correct, I challenge you to find the rule.

“A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template or blast marker. Remember that a model’s base is counted as being part of the model itself, so all a template or blast marker has to do to cause a hit is to cover any part of the target’s base.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).”

Would this work? This is what I'm asking for clarification for.

How do Jetbikes work in this regard? They are significantly larger than their 'base' size.

The line above regarding 'all a template or blast has to do to cause a hit is cover any part of the target's base' is somewhat confusing.

It also brings in to account the age old argument from 6th about 'weapons and wargear' not counting as part of the model for drawing line of sight. And the actual bike is clearly wargear.

Just wanted to get some solid opinions on this as I cant find anything concrete in the rules myself.

The marker only has to cover a part of the model and the base is considered part of the model for the purpose of blasts/templates. So either the model or base can be covered to cause a hit.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well some where near where the basic rules are( don't have a page number) it talks about using the base for measurements and determining if it is under the template/ blast. Says use base for all intents and purposes .

The underlined isn't actually a rule anywhere.
If you still think you're correct, I challenge you to find the rule.

“A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template or blast marker. Remember that a model’s base is counted as being part of the model itself, so all a template or blast marker has to do to cause a hit is to cover any part of the target’s base.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).”

Would this work? This is what I'm asking for clarification for.

That rule says the opposite - that the hit happens if the model is under the marker, and that a base counts as part of the model... but nothing saying that only the base counts.

Basically, if you have a model... let's say a Ripper Swarm, whose base is larger than the actual figures on top of it, it is hit by the Blast Template if any part of its base falls under the marker.

Conversely, if you have a Space Marine with the Shoulder Pads of Impressive Magnitude and his shoulders stick out half an inch past his base, he, too, is struck by the Blast if his shoulder pads fall under the marker.

Just got a bit of clarification, as the 'Bike' part of a Jetbike model is wargear it doesnt count for LoS and being hit much the same as weapons or banner poles.

AlexRae wrote:
Just got a bit of clarification, as the 'Bike' part of a Jetbike model is wargear it doesnt count for LoS and being hit much the same as weapons or banner poles.

Do you have an actual rule to back that up?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
“A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template or blast marker. Remember that a model’s base is counted as being part of the model itself, so all a template or blast marker has to do to cause a hit is to cover any part of the target’s base.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).”

Would this work? This is what I'm asking for clarification for.

That says that the base counts. It doesn't say that only the base counts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlexRae wrote:
It also brings in to account the age old argument from 6th about 'weapons and wargear' not counting as part of the model for drawing line of sight. And the actual bike is clearly wargear.

Again, determining hits from blast markers has nothing whatsoever to do with the LOS rules.

AlexRae wrote:
Just got a bit of clarification, as the 'Bike' part of a Jetbike model is wargear it doesnt count for LoS and being hit much the same as weapons or banner poles.

That isnt actual rules. It is part of the model, so can be hit. Youre thinking of LOS, NOT being covered by blast markers.

It comes down to whether you believe you must measure to see what is beneath the template/marker or simply look. The former interpretation means that only the base counts and not the model however the blast marker and template rules do not mention measuring. The later means if you hold the marker close enough to your eye you hit the entire board.

 FlingitNow wrote:
IThe later means if you hold the marker close enough to your eye you hit the entire board.

Being able to see something through the marker is not the same as something being under the marker.

So are you measuring what is beneath the marker or simply looking to see what is below it?

In terms of RaW interpretation, it could easily be represented as a Cylinder the size of the Blast marker, where any ingress within the cylinder is considered "under" as long as the marker is high enough.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So are you measuring what is beneath the marker or simply looking to see what is below it?

You never measure, you determine if it is beneath the marker. You do not need to be able to physically see the model, nor do you need to measure to the base. It is just "under" the marker that counts.

What about an iron priest with a thunderwolf mount wargear upgrade. the base of the iron priest is hidden, and the only physical part of anything shown is the wolf's head. can someone target that unit?

 deviantduck wrote:
What about an iron priest with a thunderwolf mount wargear upgrade. the base of the iron priest is hidden, and the only physical part of anything shown is the wolf's head. can someone target that unit?

if the blast marker lands on the wolf's head then that is a hit.

Just a quick Clarification for everyone, due to the rule and only rule posted in this thread by Dakkalance it is concluded that

Both the model(war gear and all) and the base can both constitute a hit from a blast, regardless of how much is under the template. It is all a hit.

=)

 deviantduck wrote:
What about an iron priest with a thunderwolf mount wargear upgrade. the base of the iron priest is hidden, and the only physical part of anything shown is the wolf's head. can someone target that unit?

The wolf is part of the model. If part of the model is under the marker, the model is hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
So are you measuring what is beneath the marker or simply looking to see what is below it?

You are looking to see what is under the marker. That doesn't mean that anything that you can see, anywhere, through the marker is underneath it.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
What about an iron priest with a thunderwolf mount wargear upgrade. the base of the iron priest is hidden, and the only physical part of anything shown is the wolf's head. can someone target that unit?

if the blast marker lands on the wolf's head then that is a hit.

Right, I wasn't clear enough though, I was thinking along the tangent topic lines of a lascanon. If the lascanon can only see the wolf head, is it considered part of the iron priest? or irrelevant wargear like a backpack?