Focussed Witchfire & Rolling To Hit [Re-Hash for new rules]

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**rigeld2**

col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:
You keep stating that you can resolve it outside of the shooting rules. You are told witchfire powers are shooting attacks which use the shooting rules. Where are you told to resolve anything outside of those rules?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

If you resolve the shooting attack, and there are still rules left unresolved, have you resolved its effects according to its entry? Simple yes or no question.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire that MUST roll to hit. Resolve that.

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

**blaktoof**

FlingitNow wrote:
here is actually no such rule that you have to resolve all of the power, if that were the case then all rolls would result on positive success for all powers, this is actually a made up stance from you.

simply quote where you have permission to continue resolving the power during the resolve step when it fails a required roll that is part of the resolve step and we can move on.

I take it this is you conceding blaktoof? Or are you finally going to show permission to resolve the power on a successful hit? And show permission to resolve the power on a Tuesday?

lets ask more ridiculous questions.

-show permission to go to the bathroom during a game of 40k.

-show permission to roll dice with your left hand

-show permission to roll dice with your right hand

-show permission to use the definitions of words when considering rules

-show permission for an effect to take place on a miss of a required roll to hit.

pretty silly.

I concede to you.

You are correct in the most correct of ways, the RAW way.

I see now in the entry for rolling to hit, that on a miss you can still have the effect.

I also see now in the entry for psychic shriek, "if the required to hit roll for this power misses, roll 3d6-ld and the unit suffers that many wounds with the opponent cannot go to the bathroom and has to finish their turns in under 30 minutes special rules. No saves of any kind other than children under the age of 8 calling a cell phone for an emergency may be taken and even then the opponent may only succeed on such a save on the roll of a 7+ on a d6"

**nosferatu1001**

col_impact wrote:
DaPino wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
I'm doing It while resolving the psychic power, as per the rules.

Found any relevant rules to back up your contentions yet? I noted a shocking absence in your last rambling paragraph.

Would you agree that 'completing a step' can be defined as: "applying every relevant rule in the step"?

Nope. Completing a step is satisfying all requirements of that step.

First requirement is roll as many dice as you have successful hits. You can, as you are fully aware, absolutely resolve this step without having a profile, as you have no successful hits.

**col_impact**

rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:
You keep stating that you can resolve it outside of the shooting rules. You are told witchfire powers are shooting attacks which use the shooting rules. Where are you told to resolve anything outside of those rules?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

If you resolve the shooting attack, and there are still rules left unresolved, have you resolved its effects according to its entry? Simple yes or no question.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire that MUST roll to hit. Resolve that.

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

Please show in the rules where you are allowed to roll an undefined number of shots or label your solution as HYWPI.

**FlingitNow**

as resolve steps specifies to resolve it as per its entry, and its entry states its a witchfire part of its resolution has to be rolling to hit, and not missing.

Citation for the underlined please. Nothing in the witchfires rules says what you are claiming. Why are you intentionally making up rules and claiming them to be true when you know they are not?

**Gravmyr**

@rigeld2 It tells you it is a shooting attack. If you get to the end and have steps left you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. You keep stating it's not part of a shooting attack. You need to show where you are told specifically that it's not part of the shooting attack.

**col_impact**

col_impact wrote:
Everyone on this thread so far has provided nothing more than HYWPI. Everyone should be marking their threads HYWPI.

If you follow Psychic Shriek per strict RAW then the power breaks at the missing profile. You are not permitted to skip required steps in the rules.

If you skip required steps or invent fictions to enable you to circumvent those steps you are doing HYWPI.

If you think you have a way of resolving Psychic Shriek by strict RAW then the onus is on you to provide a full and detailed argument indicating exactly how you plan on resolving everything according to RAW at which point the thread can critique it.

You have several hurdles to accomplish and must give detailed answers that address each of the following.

#1) Psychic Shriek is a shooting attack that MUST roll to hit

#2) Shooting attacks are required to march through the shooting sequence

#3) The missing profile means step 5 (To Wound Rule) is unresolvable without a house rule.

#4) Per RAW, a successful To Wound Roll in Step 5 is required to resolve "IF" a hit wounds the target.

#5) You need to produce a strict RAW argument that does not resolve directly opposite RAI. We know for example that Psychic Shriek is witchfire so solutions that directly oppose this truth are immediately suspect.

Please note that if you plan on resolving strict RAW by resorting to fictions like a "zero shot shooting attack" or rolling an "undefined number" of dice then it will be very easy for the thread to show how you are doing HYWPI by relying on those fictions. Remember the onus is on you to support any fictions that you create with rules (so that you prove that they indeed are not fictions).

My claim is that it is impossible to resolve Psychic Shriek per strict RAW and that my HYWPI is the most elegant HYWPI for resolving Psychic Shriek posted on this thread so far.

My HYWPI -> If we add "Instead of a Roll to Wound" to Psychic Shriek then we do the minimum required to enable Psychic Shriek to resolve fully as witchfire (which is RAI).

Feel free to prove your RAW argument can be resolved by strict RAW.

The onus is on anyone who would claim they have a strict RAW argument to prove they do so, because in the case of Psychic Shriek we have a missing profile and an obviously broken ruleset so it should come as no surprise that we have to house rule Psychic Shriek in order to resolve it.

If you have to resort to HYWPI then I doubt your HYWPI is better than mine.

Everyone needs to address what I wrote. The onus is on those who would claim to have a strict RAW way of resolving Psychic Shriek.

Feel free to blow us all away with your rock solid arguments. Getting popcorn ready.

Or else match up your HYWPI against my HYWPI.

**rigeld2**

col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:
You keep stating that you can resolve it outside of the shooting rules. You are told witchfire powers are shooting attacks which use the shooting rules. Where are you told to resolve anything outside of those rules?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

If you resolve the shooting attack, and there are still rules left unresolved, have you resolved its effects according to its entry? Simple yes or no question.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire that MUST roll to hit. Resolve that.

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

Please show in the rules where you are allowed to roll an undefined number of shots or label your solution as HYWPI.

You're not allowed to - I said as much. You roll nothing.
Also, saying "or label your solution as HYWPI." is the same as saying "or concede". The mods frown on the latter so it's impolite to say the former.

**DeathReaper**

blaktoof wrote:

Show permission to resolve on a miss.

I have. re-read the rules i posted about resolving according to the instructions in the powers entry.

**Gravmyr**

DR where in the shooting rules are you resolving the 3d6 roll?

**col_impact**

rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:
You keep stating that you can resolve it outside of the shooting rules. You are told witchfire powers are shooting attacks which use the shooting rules. Where are you told to resolve anything outside of those rules?

Spoiler:

Resolve Psychic Power
Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry. Unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative.

If you resolve the shooting attack, and there are still rules left unresolved, have you resolved its effects according to its entry? Simple yes or no question.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire that MUST roll to hit. Resolve that.

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

Please show in the rules where you are allowed to roll an undefined number of shots or label your solution as HYWPI.

You're not allowed to - I said as much. You roll nothing.
Also, saying "or label your solution as HYWPI." is the same as saying "or concede". The mods frown on the latter so it's impolite to say the former.

Please show in the rules where we have shooting attacks with zero shots on their profile. It's a logical implausibility so the burden is on you to prove that zero shots is permissible.

Discussion of HYWPI is allowed in YMDC. And in the case of Psychic Shriek with an obvious set of broken rules we have no business discussing anything but HYWPI unless you can prove a strict RAW can hold water.

**FlingitNow**

blaktoof wrote:
FlingitNow wrote:
here is actually no such rule that you have to resolve all of the power, if that were the case then all rolls would result on positive success for all powers, this is actually a made up stance from you.

simply quote where you have permission to continue resolving the power during the resolve step when it fails a required roll that is part of the resolve step and we can move on.

I take it this is you conceding blaktoof? Or are you finally going to show permission to resolve the power on a successful hit? And show permission to resolve the power on a Tuesday?

lets ask more ridiculous questions.

-show permission to go to the bathroom during a game of 40k.

-show permission to roll dice with your left hand

-show permission to roll dice with your right hand

-show permission to use the definitions of words when considering rules

-show permission for an effect to take place on a miss of a required roll to hit.

pretty silly.

I concede to you.

You are correct in the most correct of ways, the RAW way.

I see now in the entry for rolling to hit, that on a miss you can still have the effect.

I also see now in the entry for psychic shriek, "if the required to hit roll for this power misses, roll 3d6-ld and the unit suffers that many wounds with the opponent cannot go to the bathroom and has to finish their turns in under 30 minutes special rules. No saves of any kind other than children under the age of 8 calling a cell phone for an emergency may be taken and even then the opponent may only succeed on such a save on the roll of a 7+ on a d6"

In my interpretation of how the ruleset works I can actually answer those questions:

Going to the bathroom is not related to an in game act so is not covered by the rules.

General permission to roll dice is permission to however you like so permission is covered for either hand.

A basic principle of understanding written text is to use the language it is written in.

Psychic powers have general permission to resolve regardless of a to hit rolls success or failure.

So now why do you believe you need specific permission to resolve on a miss but not on a hit?

**rigeld2**

col_impact wrote:
Please show in the rules where we have shooting attacks with zero shots on their profile. It's a logical implausibility so the burden is on you to prove that zero shots is permissible.

It's not a logical implausibility at all.
Blast weapons that Get Hot fire 0 shots in a shooting attack. Why is that universally accepted but something like this isn't?
Or a Tac Squad that moves 6", is 25" from its target and therefore only has a Plasma Cannon able to fire?

Please cite actual rules saying it's not possible before challenging the statement.

Discussion of HYWPI is allowed in YMDC. And in the case of Psychic Shriek with an obvious set of broken rules we have no business discussing anything but HYWPI unless you can prove a strict RAW can hold water.

Discussion of HYWPI is fine, true - but demands to mark an argument so are impolite.

**blaktoof**

FlingitNow wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
FlingitNow wrote:
here is actually no such rule that you have to resolve all of the power, if that were the case then all rolls would result on positive success for all powers, this is actually a made up stance from you.

simply quote where you have permission to continue resolving the power during the resolve step when it fails a required roll that is part of the resolve step and we can move on.

I take it this is you conceding blaktoof? Or are you finally going to show permission to resolve the power on a successful hit? And show permission to resolve the power on a Tuesday?

lets ask more ridiculous questions.

-show permission to go to the bathroom during a game of 40k.

-show permission to roll dice with your left hand

-show permission to roll dice with your right hand

-show permission to use the definitions of words when considering rules

-show permission for an effect to take place on a miss of a required roll to hit.

pretty silly.

I concede to you.

You are correct in the most correct of ways, the RAW way.

I see now in the entry for rolling to hit, that on a miss you can still have the effect.

I also see now in the entry for psychic shriek, "if the required to hit roll for this power misses, roll 3d6-ld and the unit suffers that many wounds with the opponent cannot go to the bathroom and has to finish their turns in under 30 minutes special rules. No saves of any kind other than children under the age of 8 calling a cell phone for an emergency may be taken and even then the opponent may only succeed on such a save on the roll of a 7+ on a d6"

In my interpretation of how the ruleset works I can actually answer those questions:

Going to the bathroom is not related to an in game act so is not covered by the rules.

General permission to roll dice is permission to however you like so permission is covered for either hand.

A basic principle of understanding written text is to use the language it is written in.

Psychic powers have general permission to resolve regardless of a to hit rolls success or failure.

So now why do you believe you need specific permission to resolve on a miss but not on a hit?

normally shooting an attack that has a profile and requires a to hit roll, if you miss, the fact the attack had a profile or even a strength value is irrelevant because you do not go to the next step in the order of shooting sequence and the attack stops there on the miss.

why do you think the attack which requires a to hit roll and follows the rules for shooting would look at any step past the hit roll on a miss?

is there some RAW permission somewhere that states it does?

as to your last comment.

Psychic powers have general permission to resolve regardless of a to hit rolls success or failure.

your statement is correct, in general, but in the specific case of witchfires, which psychic shriek is, you are required to roll to hit as a shooting attack for the resolve step.

**Gravmyr**

rigeld2 wrote:

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

Thank you. You just proved that unless you make the roll to hit The shooting attack ends and as such the power ends. The power is a shooting attack, you keep posting it's seperate but you have a rule that states it is the shooting attack. The onus falls to you that the 3d6 roll happens outside of the shooting attack.

**rigeld2**

Gravmyr wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:

Sure - it rolls an undefined number of shots. It hits 0 times (since it's undefined you can't actually roll any dice). 0 wounds attempted. 0 wounds allocated. Shooting attack ends.

Thank you. You just proved that unless you make the roll to hit The shooting attack ends and as such the power ends. The power is a shooting attack, you keep posting it's seperate but you have a rule that states it is the shooting attack. The onus falls to you that the 3d6 roll happens outside of the shooting attack.

So you're asserting that the power is not resolved according to its entry. I've quoted a rule stating that it must be. One of us is breaking a rule.

**Gravmyr**

I am asserting that the shooting attack be resolved as a shooting attack. If you get to the end of the rules for a shooting attack and you haven't resolved a step then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. So yes there is a rule being broken.

**col_impact**

rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Please show in the rules where we have shooting attacks with zero shots on their profile. It's a logical implausibility so the burden is on you to prove that zero shots is permissible.

It's not a logical implausibility at all.
Blast weapons that Get Hot fire 0 shots in a shooting attack. Why is that universally accepted but something like this isn't?
Or a Tac Squad that moves 6", is 25" from its target and therefore only has a Plasma Cannon able to fire?

Please cite actual rules saying it's not possible before challenging the statement.

Discussion of HYWPI is allowed in YMDC. And in the case of Psychic Shriek with an obvious set of broken rules we have no business discussing anything but HYWPI unless you can prove a strict RAW can hold water.

Discussion of HYWPI is fine, true - but demands to mark an argument so are impolite.

Psychic Shriek is not a blast weapon nor does it have a Gets Hot so your example is wildly irrelevant.

There are no cases of any shooting attack having zero shots on its profile. Zero is not a valid item to show up on a profile. You have to actively prove that zero is valid. Moreover you have to prove that it is the unstated default. There is some rules justification for asserting one as the unstated default. There is no rules justification for zero shots being valid or being the unstated default.

Moreover, Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power that MUST roll to hit. Rolling zero dice is not only a logical implausibility, it also does not satisfy that requirement.

**FlingitNow**

normally shooting an attack that has a profile and requires a to hit roll, if you miss, the fact the attack had a profile or even a strength value is irrelevant because you do not go to the next step in the order of shooting sequence and the attack stops there on the miss.

why do you think the attack which requires a to hit roll and follows the rules for shooting would look at any step past the hit roll on a miss?

is there some RAW permission somewhere that states it does?

Read the shooting rules. The only step that requires a successful roll to hit is the to wound roll. We make no such roll for PS so do not care about hits.

your statement is correct, in general, but in the specific case of witchfires, which psychic shriek is, you are required to roll to hit as a shooting attack for the resolve step.

Yes they require a to hit roll. What makes you think the success or failure of that roll is in anyway linked to the 3d6-ld roll?

**Gravmyr**

Without a successful hit there are no instructions to continue with the rules for shooting attacks.

**rigeld2**

Gravmyr wrote:I am asserting that the shooting attack be resolved as a shooting attack. If you get to the end of the rules for a shooting attack and you haven't resolved a step then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. So yes there is a rule being broken.

I've resolved all shooting attack steps.
There are rules left in the entry for the power. You're denying that they should be resolved. Cite a reason.

col_impact wrote:Psychic Shriek is not a blast weapon nor does it have a Gets Hot so your example is wildly irrelevant.

But a Blast that Gets Hot is a shooting attack with 0 shots, correct? Which is what you asked for?

There are no cases of any shooting attack having zero shots on its profile. Zero is not a valid item to show up on a profile. You have to actively prove that zero is valid. Moreover you have to prove that it is the unstated default. There is some rules justification for asserting one as the unstated default. There is no rules justification for zero shots being valid or being the unstated default.

There's no such thing as an unstated default. There either is one, or you're assuming there is one. The latter is not actually written rules, being an assumption and all.
0 might not be a valid item to show up on a profile - but Shriek doesn't have a profile so that's irrelevant.

Moreover, Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power that MUST roll to hit. Rolling zero dice is not only a logical implausibility, it also does not satisfy that requirement.

Incorrect. Rolling 0 dice satisfies a command to roll. In addition, your statement would make any witchfire that is a blast illegal to resolve as they never roll to hit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gravmyr wrote:
Without a successful hit there are no instructions to continue with the rules for shooting attacks.

Correct. So we're done with the rules for shooting attacks.
Can you stop playing "Gotcha!" for a second? That'd be great.
Instead, answer how you're denying the ability to resolve the power according to its entry, as the rule I've quoted requires.

**col_impact**

rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:I am asserting that the shooting attack be resolved as a shooting attack. If you get to the end of the rules for a shooting attack and you haven't resolved a step then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. So yes there is a rule being broken.

I've resolved all shooting attack steps.
There are rules left in the entry for the power. You're denying that they should be resolved. Cite a reason.

col_impact wrote:Psychic Shriek is not a blast weapon nor does it have a Gets Hot so your example is wildly irrelevant.

But a Blast that Gets Hot is a shooting attack with 0 shots, correct? Which is what you asked for?

There are no cases of any shooting attack having zero shots on its profile. Zero is not a valid item to show up on a profile. You have to actively prove that zero is valid. Moreover you have to prove that it is the unstated default. There is some rules justification for asserting one as the unstated default. There is no rules justification for zero shots being valid or being the unstated default.

There's no such thing as an unstated default. There either is one, or you're assuming there is one. The latter is not actually written rules, being an assumption and all.
0 might not be a valid item to show up on a profile - but Shriek doesn't have a profile so that's irrelevant.

Moreover, Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power that MUST roll to hit. Rolling zero dice is not only a logical implausibility, it also does not satisfy that requirement.

Incorrect. Rolling 0 dice satisfies a command to roll. In addition, your statement would make any witchfire that is a blast illegal to resolve as they never roll to hit.

Blast has it's own set of rules. If a witchfire is marked as blast then you follow that set of rules which is outlined clearly in the rules. Are you saying that Psychic Shriek is a blast?

Rolling zero dice does not satisy "must roll to hit." If that is HYWPI then that is fine. The rest of us can read straightforward English.

**Gravmyr**

The rules you keep quoting say it's a shooting power. I am resolving it as such. Those rules pertaining to shooting attacks do not allow you to continue without rolling to hit and succeeding. Again if you get to the end and you have steps left , in this case the 3d6, then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. You have resolved the power as soon as the end of the shooting attack rules end. For your interpretation to work you need to come up with a way to fit the 3d6 roll into those rules.

Edit: Where in the shooting attack rules are you resolving the 3d6? It is part of the power and as such part of a shooting attack.

**blaktoof**

rigeld2 wrote:
Gravmyr wrote:I am asserting that the shooting attack be resolved as a shooting attack. If you get to the end of the rules for a shooting attack and you haven't resolved a step then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. So yes there is a rule being broken.

I've resolved all shooting attack steps.
There are rules left in the entry for the power. You're denying that they should be resolved. Cite a reason.

col_impact wrote:Psychic Shriek is not a blast weapon nor does it have a Gets Hot so your example is wildly irrelevant.

But a Blast that Gets Hot is a shooting attack with 0 shots, correct? Which is what you asked for?

There are no cases of any shooting attack having zero shots on its profile. Zero is not a valid item to show up on a profile. You have to actively prove that zero is valid. Moreover you have to prove that it is the unstated default. There is some rules justification for asserting one as the unstated default. There is no rules justification for zero shots being valid or being the unstated default.

There's no such thing as an unstated default. There either is one, or you're assuming there is one. The latter is not actually written rules, being an assumption and all.
0 might not be a valid item to show up on a profile - but Shriek doesn't have a profile so that's irrelevant.

Moreover, Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power that MUST roll to hit. Rolling zero dice is not only a logical implausibility, it also does not satisfy that requirement.

Incorrect. Rolling 0 dice satisfies a command to roll. In addition, your statement would make any witchfire that is a blast illegal to resolve as they never roll to hit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gravmyr wrote:
Without a successful hit there are no instructions to continue with the rules for shooting attacks.

Correct. So we're done with the rules for shooting attacks.
Can you stop playing "Gotcha!" for a second? That'd be great.
Instead, answer how you're denying the ability to resolve the power according to its entry, as the rule I've quoted requires.

resolving by its entry does not mean you get to auto succeed on the required rolls in the entry.

the entry requires a to hit roll, you get to resolve the power, but if you fail the required to hit roll what makes you think you get to continue the attack? You have satisfied the requirement to go to the resolve step at this point before rolling to hit.

**col_impact**

Per strict RAW, Psychic Shriek cannot resolve.

This should come as no surprise as it is obviously missing a profile and obviously missing critical info.

We are all obviously in HYWPI land. The Psychic Shriek entry is obviously broken.

The burden is on those who would assert that they can construct a strict RAW argument without resorting to house rule.

You need to delineate all the steps in your strict RAW argument.

**rigeld2**

col_impact wrote:
Blast has it's own set of rules. If a witchfire is marked as blast then you follow that set of rules which is outlined clearly in the rules. Are you saying that Psychic Shriek is a blast?

No. You asked for anywhere in the rules that there was a shooting attack with 0 shots. I provided one.

Rolling zero dice does not satisy "must roll to hit." If that is HYWPI then that is fine. The rest of us can read straightforward English.

Thanks for the insult.
Yes, it does satisfy "must roll to hit". Blasts don't roll to hit - ever, so according to your argument Blasts don't work?
The rolls for Wounding (in CC) say:

As with shooting, once you have scored a hit with an Attack, you must roll a D6 for each successful hit to see if you cause a Wound and damage your foe.

How many dice do you roll To Wound if you miss all of your attacks in CC? Zero. And yet you must roll. It seems like the actual rules disagree with you and everyone that "can read straightforward English."

**DaPino**

Gravmyr wrote:
Without a successful hit there are no instructions to continue with the rules for shooting attacks.

The requirement to resolve step 5: 'Roll to wound' is to roll a dice for every succesfull hit. There are 2 options here: 1) I don't roll a succesful hit 2) I roll a succesful hit.
1)
I have 0 succesful hits so I don't roll any dice. Step complete. Nothing says that scoring 1 succesful hit is a requirement to proceed to step 5.
Onto the next step, the requirement is that 'I allocate every wound in the woud pool' I have 0 wounds in the wound pool so I allocate 0 wounds. Step complete. Again, nothing says I need a a wound in order to proceed to step 6.
2)
I have a succesful hit. I can't create a wound from this hit because I need a Str characteristic to do so. So I manage to generate 0 wounds according to the rules in this step. Step complete.
Next step, I am reqquired to allocate every wound from the wound pool. I have 0 wounds in the wound pool so I allocate 0. Step complete.

In both cases I have resolved a the shooting sequence without breaking a rule. I now resolve the rest of the power.

**blaktoof**

rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Blast has it's own set of rules. If a witchfire is marked as blast then you follow that set of rules which is outlined clearly in the rules. Are you saying that Psychic Shriek is a blast?

No. You asked for anywhere in the rules that there was a shooting attack with 0 shots. I provided one.

Rolling zero dice does not satisy "must roll to hit." If that is HYWPI then that is fine. The rest of us can read straightforward English.

Thanks for the insult.
Yes, it does satisfy "must roll to hit". Blasts don't roll to hit - ever, so according to your argument Blasts don't work?
The rolls for Wounding (in CC) say:

As with shooting, once you have scored a hit with an Attack, you must roll a D6 for each successful hit to see if you cause a Wound and damage your foe.

How many dice do you roll To Wound if you miss all of your attacks in CC? Zero. And yet you must roll. It seems like the actual rules disagree with you and everyone that "can read straightforward English."

you are actually not required to roll zero dice if you miss all your attacks.

in fact you simply do not have permission to move to the next step after to hit if you do not hit, ie you missed.

**rigeld2**

Gravmyr wrote:The rules you keep quoting say it's a shooting power. I am resolving it as such. Those rules pertaining to shooting attacks do not allow you to continue without rolling to hit and succeeding. Again if you get to the end and you have steps left , in this case the 3d6, then you have not resolved it as a shooting attack. You have resolved the power as soon as the end of the shooting attack rules end. For your interpretation to work you need to come up with a way to fit the 3d6 roll into those rules.

Untrue, as I've shown before and you continue to ignore.

Edit: Where in the shooting attack rules are you resolving the 3d6? It is part of the power and as such part of a shooting attack.

That's not what the rules actually say. Please don't invent rules.

blaktoof wrote:resolving by its entry does not mean you get to auto succeed on the required rolls in the entry.

Indeed, I've never asserted otherwise.

the entry requires a to hit roll, you get to resolve the power, but if you fail the required to hit roll what makes you think you get to continue the attack? You have satisfied the requirement to go to the resolve step at this point before rolling to hit.

Please, cite the rule that ties the 3d6 roll to the shooting attack. I've asked before and you've failed to provide it.

**DaPino**

blaktoof wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Blast has it's own set of rules. If a witchfire is marked as blast then you follow that set of rules which is outlined clearly in the rules. Are you saying that Psychic Shriek is a blast?

No. You asked for anywhere in the rules that there was a shooting attack with 0 shots. I provided one.

Rolling zero dice does not satisy "must roll to hit." If that is HYWPI then that is fine. The rest of us can read straightforward English.

Thanks for the insult.
Yes, it does satisfy "must roll to hit". Blasts don't roll to hit - ever, so according to your argument Blasts don't work?
The rolls for Wounding (in CC) say:

As with shooting, once you have scored a hit with an Attack, you must roll a D6 for each successful hit to see if you cause a Wound and damage your foe.

How many dice do you roll To Wound if you miss all of your attacks in CC? Zero. And yet you must roll. It seems like the actual rules disagree with you and everyone that "can read straightforward English."

you are actually not required to roll zero dice if you miss all your attacks.

in fact you simply do not have permission to move to the next step after to hit if you do not hit, ie you missed.

Nothing says you have permission to move to the next step even if you have made a hit. So as per your logic you never have permission to move to the next step and we can't even shoot using a gun.
However, you move to the next step automatically when everything applicable in one step has been resolved.