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Apologies if this has been addressed before. Synaptic backlash with the Tervigon says it affects all units of Termagants within 12", then later goes on to say that you resolve the wounds as a shooting attack. Does this mean that if a gant unit is inside 12", but not all of the members of the unit are inside 12", that wounds could only be allocated to the gants inside 12"? I want to say no, because if it only affected gants within 12" then synaptic backlash would specify models instead of units.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Apologies if this has been addressed before. Synaptic backlash with the Tervigon says it affects all units of Termagants within 12", then later goes on to say that you resolve the wounds as a shooting attack. Does this mean that if a gant unit is inside 12", but not all of the members of the unit are inside 12", that wounds could only be allocated to the gants inside 12"? I want to say no, because if it only affected gants within 12" then synaptic backlash would specify models instead of units.

It is worded much like shooting attacks. So the unit takes anumber of hits equal to 3d6, as per the shooting apply wounds based on the trevigon as the firer to determine closest models removing models from unit till you reach the 12" limit as per a shooting attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes I had to go back and double check this rule myself. It does seem to have limited the total damage the extend back lash can do.

This isn't exactly a regular shooting attack though, Synaptic Backlash doesn't have a weapon profile in the codex. It explicitly states that it affects units within 12", which would indicate that the entire unit is in range. It seems like a horrendous exploitation to disregard the rest of your 3D6 wounds, in the middle of the attack no less, just because the unit takes enough casualties to no longer be within 12".

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
This isn't exactly a regular shooting attack though, Synaptic Backlash doesn't have a weapon profile in the codex. It explicitly states that it affects units within 12", which would indicate that the entire unit is in range. It seems like a horrendous exploitation to disregard the rest of your 3D6 wounds, in the middle of the attack no less, just because the unit takes enough casualties to no longer be within 12".

While not a normal shooting attack, it does not specify otherwise. Therefore treat it as a normal shooting attack and don't allocate wounds to Gants further than 12" away.

If it targets UNITS within 12", it doesn't matter how far the farthest model is. They still take spill-over wounds.
Look at a nova witchfire.

I was hoping to get a few more replies at the least. No one else wants to weigh in?

I don't have the rule in front of me, so:

Does the shooting attack have a "range" explicitly listed?

Targeting units within 12" is not a range, so if there is no other range listed, then you are not restricted to allocating wounds to models outside of 12".

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
This isn't exactly a regular shooting attack though, Synaptic Backlash doesn't have a weapon profile in the codex. It explicitly states that it affects units within 12", which would indicate that the entire unit is in range. It seems like a horrendous exploitation to disregard the rest of your 3D6 wounds, in the middle of the attack no less, just because the unit takes enough casualties to no longer be within 12".

What if you managed to move your last 3 Termagants 12.0001" Away? You would find it unfair that they cannot be targeted?

It's pretty much the same here. If you imagined all of the Models within 12" as one Unit and the ones past 12" as another Unit, would you still find it an exploitation? They are just out of range, simple as.

As for the Rule:
"Wounds are allocated as per shooting, with the Tervigon as the firer."

Wounds allocation, shooting phase:
"Allocate Wounds
Closest Models
Random Allocation
Out of Range
If none of the firing models are in range of a particular model in the target unit, then Wounds cannot be allocated to it. If there are no models in the target unit that are in range, all remaining Wounds in the pool are lost."

Thing is, to my understanding, the attack has no range.

The 12" is only a limitation on how you select a target; it's not actually the range of the shooting attack.

(Well, it is in a colloquial sense. But in terms of game mechanics, it's just telling you to pick targets within 12". The attack itself has no given range.)

This is going purely off what's written in this thread, though. The exact wording of the whole rule may change my interpretation.

Cheexta: The exact wording of the rule is "units within 12", it doesn't have an actual range stat because synaptic backlash isn't an actual weapon.

BlackTalos: I would not find your example unfair because the other unit you mention IS actually further than 12" away and thus cannot be affected by synaptic backlash. As previously mentioned, backlash has no actual range statistic. "Units within 12" is not a range, it's just telling you who is affected because this isn't a regular shooting attack. You don't normally get to fire a weapon during your opponent's shooting phase, neither do you get to target your own units, so this is certainly an exception to the way you normally fire weapons and is why I think it's ridiculous to argue that the 12" mentioned is an actual range stat.

It isn't an actual weapon, but the rules require you to "Wounds are allocated as per shooting"

This means (to me) that while resolving the special rule, you must follow the "Allocate Wounds" section from the Shooting Sequence.

This would also mean that by RaW, "If there are no visible models in the target unit, all remaining Wounds in the pool are lost."

Now either you follow strict RaW and only allocate to Models within sight and up to 12", or you can house-rule/decide that when playing only the rules "First, allocate a Wound from the Wound pool to the enemy model closest to the firing unit, regardless of which model caused that Wound." apply. And ignoring "Closest models; Random allocation; Out of Range; Out of Sight"

But then you couldn't actually allocate ANY wounds because there IS no range listed. However, to play it like that would obviously be ridiculous, so the only alternative is to use backlash as it is written: to hit UNITS within 12".

Yeah, that would come down to whether you decide "Affects within 12" " is a range, no range = affects all, or no range = affects nothing.

No too sure where the RaW would stand for that...

BlackTalos,
Which is why I didn't post, cause I feared that would be an issue and didn't research the Rule to conclude yay or nay.
The good old question of: How can you treat anything like a normal shooting attack when it doesn't have a weapon profile...?

JinxDragon wrote:
How can you treat anything like a normal shooting attack when it doesn't have a weapon profile...?

Well, talk about current news.... lol

In terms of Rules, if it helps:


Let me know if this is too comprehensive for the "posting points cost" tenets...

So no, it is not treated like a Shooting Attack. But you still "allocated as per shooting" for the Wounds.

The issue isn't allocating wounds as per shooting, the issue is the range. If Synaptic Backlash wasn't meant to wound models outside of 12", then surely it would state instead that Termagant MODELS inside 12" suffer wounds instead of specifying units, especially considering this codex comes from an edition with a wide variety of abilities and attacks that allow you to target or wound individual models such as: beam powers, precision strikes, sniper rifles, etc. It seems much more likely that synaptic backlash was not intended to be taken so literally as a shooting attack, which is why there is no shooting profile. The language "units inside 12" implies that everything in the unit is in range, otherwise it would use the more specific MODELS inside 12".

You only test range when determining how far away the units are, we have rules that determine this(1 model in the unit within range means the unit is within range.)

Range to the individual termagants does not matter, whether those gants are 1" away, or 14.99" away or 30" away, as long as there was 1 gant within 12" the remaining 3d6-1 gants all take the wounds.