Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I never said "They haven't increased sales." I don't know the future. What I'm saying is that they won't based off past performance of those releases. GW always gets a huge bump in sales when they release anything SM and a new edition. Go look that up yourself.

 RunicFIN wrote:

Don´t make me laugh. You say a person ( you for some reason bunch up with ) doesn´t need to provide proof for his claims while everyone who disagrees is continously asked for proof. There´s no logic whatsoever in that, just the epitome of you being paradoxical.

I doubt I could make you laugh, you clearly don't understand anything I say. I haven't referred to MWHistorian's claim at all. If he made that claim, he would have to provide proof. However, that's a separate claim which I'm not currently evaluating. His lack of evidence has no bearing on your claim, or you own lack of evidence. There's no paradox here. I'd stop throwing out big words if I were you. They only work when the logical construction of the rest of your post provides the framework to hang them on.

And MWHistorians claim is that the new releases since the last financial reports have not increased GW´s sales, yet he has no evidence for that. He can post his evidence, or consider his claim conceded.

Where did he claim that, by the way? I had a quick scan and can't see it, only you suddenly asserting he made that claim to start deflecting his own requests for evidence.

It seems to me that you're continually digging a deeper hole with your continuous lying, I have no idea where you expect this to go. You're being further and further exposed as a fraud and a troll, the deeper you go.

 Riquende wrote:
I doubt I could make you laugh, you clearly don't understand anything I say. I haven't referred to MWHistorian's claim at all. If he made that claim, he would have to provide proof.

Very well then, I take back what I said when it comes to you Riquende. That´s all I wanted to hear from you. I don´t have time to search for his post right now ( see below ) but use the search function, put MWHistorians username in as a requirement and search for the words "you´re mistaken" or "you are mistaken" - it should show up as the first result.

In any case, keep believing guys. I´m sure you´re correct regarding GW going down and a single sales report + a chairmans preamble being ultimate evidence of a large companys doom, with said company having a history of over 20 years and being the most successfull in their field. I´ll visit the discussion thread after the report to see what possible excuses you have come up with to try and sweep being incorrect under the rug to safe face. I´m guessing "this means nothing" ( which is what I am now saying, but you refuse to accept ) is one, someone will probably blame it on christmas and people buying presents.

Also, try to work on your skills regarding holding coherent protocol, demanding proof of others and "protecting one of your own" by just blatantly stating he doesn´t need to provide any proof for his equally big claims just sweeps any credibility whatsoever from under your feet.

I am now in a hurry to enjoy an enjoyable game or two of Warhammer 40,000, the most widespread miniaturegame on the planet, produced by the most successfful wargaming company in existence, so we´ll continue this discussion wherein you just come up with non-equal rules to others later. Ciao.

Yeah, so where's the proof you claim to have? Where is it?

 heartserenade wrote:
Guys, unicorns are real. You want proof? I can prove it but only through PM, and i'm gonna smear your face, ass, whatever, with the unicorn truth!

And you don't have proof that they're not real! HAH~! Take that, logic!

Well, Pliny's unicorn exists, anyway.... He was describing a rhinoceros by using portions of animals that the reader was likely to be familiar with... so, the head of a deer, the body of a horse, the legs of an elephant, the tail of a lion, and a horn in the middle of its head.



The Auld Grump

 RunicFIN wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
I doubt I could make you laugh, you clearly don't understand anything I say. I haven't referred to MWHistorian's claim at all. If he made that claim, he would have to provide proof.

Very well then, I take back what I said when it comes to you Riquende. That´s all I wanted to hear from you. I don´t have time to search for his post right now ( see below ) but use the search function, put MWHistorians username in as a requirement and search for the words "you´re mistaken" or "you are mistaken" - it should show up as the first result.

In any case, keep believing guys. I´m sure you´re correct regarding GW going down and a single sales report + a chairmans preamble being ultimate evidence of a large companys doom, with said company having a history of over 20 years and being the most successfull in their field. I´ll visit the discussion thread after the report to see what possible excuses you have come up with to try and sweep being incorrect under the rug to safe face. I´m guessing "this means nothing" ( which is what I am now saying, but you refuse to accept ) is one, someone will probably blame it on christmas and people buying presents.

Also, try to work on your skills regarding holding coherent protocol, demanding proof of others and "protecting one of your own" by just blatantly stating he doesn´t need to provide any proof for his equally big claims just sweeps any credibility whatsoever from under your feet.

I am now in a hurry to enjoy an enjoyable game or two of Warhammer 40,000, the most widespread miniaturegame on the planet, produced by the most successfful wargaming company in existence, so we´ll continue this discussion wherein you just come up with non-equal rules to others later. Ciao.

You do get that the chairman's preamble is the introduction to the financial report right? And that there have been two consecutive reports wih falling profit and revenue? Both within the same year, admittedly, but it does demonstrate a much longer term trend than just the EOY report.

I mean, I'm fairly convinced you don't have a firm grasp of what you're arguing, but treating referring to these things as separate entities doesn't lend an air of authority to your posts.

Jog on then son.Have fun. Don't come back too quickly, I need to recover from handing out logic 101 lessons!

Thanks for your concession that you have no proof, nor even scant evidence that your claims are valid. Accepted.

Next time you want to get your kicks out of shameless lying and constant dishonesty, why not take a law class?

Edit:

Fun as it is to watch those with the gleaming armour twist themselves into knots with their childish lies, I do feel the forum is immeasurably improved by not having to wade through their drivel. RunicFIN, I dub you a vacuous liar, more concerned with stirring up trouble than discussing the hobby, and more concerned with insulting people than trying to understand them. You are ignored.

I'd urge others to do so as well (if only so that his quoted posts don't keep appearing in otherwise interesting topics). Irrelevant trolls disappear quickly when there's nobody responding to them. It's sad, but it is only done for attention and validation.

I thought this was about advising beginners on whether they should or should not start a GW game, not argue in a circle with Runic until a mod has to close the thread due to it being off topic (by not just clicking on the ignore button and allowing him to further drag the discussion off topic you're falling into his attempts to get the thread closed, Zweischneid did this ALLLLLL the time and yet no one seemed to figure it out).

Do not Reply.
Use Ignore button.
Let him die.

He is counting on you wanting to "win" the discussion to manipulate you into getting the thread closed, just ignore him.

Would I advise a beginner to start 40k? Not in good conscious.
1. Too expensive. For a full size army you're looking at $500+
2. Too unbalanced. Unless you know exactly what you're doing, chances are your army will be dreadfully underpowered and losing all the time may become frustrating and cause them to quit after an already hefty investement.
3. There are so many better games out there that I can't think of a reason to play 40k more than another game.

I'm still waiting on that PM you promised Rubric....

In that light... I will reiterate my actual, on topic , response to the OP....

I highly recommend Mordheim - and playing it with miniatures from other companies.

I recommend Necromunda - and playing it with miniatures from other companies.

I recommend getting the two player starter set for Warhammer Fantasy Battle - and using the High Elf miniatures for Kings of War. (The high elves make a decent start on an army, and the Kings of War rules are available for free - so no added costs for a better game.)

I do not recommend any of their current sets of rules, and believe that the miniatures are far too expensive for their quality.

And that on a great many of their recent plastics, that quality is falling.

The Auld Grump

RunicFIN wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

If you don't produce said evidence, you'll be considered trolling.

Where is the proof of yours regarding the new products of GW not increasing their sales? I asked it for once already, did not receive it. As I mentioned before, you mentioned the "tyranid testacle" -which means you knew I was talking about products that came after the last report, yet you still pointed me to the old report.

So, yeah?

He said he can't for 6 more weeks one way or the other. Your the one that say you have proff NOW. So put up or shut up, as the saying goes.

RunicFIN wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

Being correct about it later will mean nothing if you've hidden information just for the sake of being right. Seems downright petty.

Being correct about it is being correct about it, and the doomsayers being wrong. And maybe you should take into consideration it might not be a matter of being petty but something else entirely.

Yup, Not child like at all. LOL. Going to make more popcorn right now keep it up.

 Riquende wrote:
Thanks for your concession that you have no proof, nor even scant evidence that your claims are valid. Accepted.

"Concessed" to none of the things you say, as I am still infact right about the matter. You talk about logic yet you conclude things out of thin air. I take back taking back you making me laugh, as you completely lack any logic yourself.

 Riquende wrote:


Fun as it is to watch those with the gleaming armour twist themselves into knots with their childish lies, I do feel the forum is immeasurably improved by not having to wade through their drivel. RunicFIN, I dub you a vacuous liar, more concerned with stirring up trouble than discussing the hobby, and more concerned with insulting people than trying to understand them. You are ignored.

I'd urge others to do so as well (if only so that his quoted posts don't keep appearing in otherwise interesting topics). Irrelevant trolls disappear quickly when there's nobody responding to them. It's sad, but it is only done for attention and validation.

Haven´t lied, nor am I in a knot ( infact you are, with you lot acting as paradoxical as possible with not requiring proof from MWHistorian but requiring from anyone else, at any given time. ) So yeah, you just made yourself look even more unlogical and paradoxical. Next to this, regarding the topic of GW going down/whatever the tinfoils have made up for today - I am correct, you are not. Have fun accepting that.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I'm still waiting on that PM you promised Rubric....

Like I stated to Musashi, I will send it to you the very day the report hits. For reasons other than pettiness I cannot do it now.

 RunicFIN wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Thanks for your concession that you have no proof, nor even scant evidence that your claims are valid. Accepted.

"Concessed" to none of the things you say, as I am still infact right about the matter. You talk about logic yet you conclude things out of thin air. I take back taking back you making me laugh, as you completely lack any logic yourself.

 Riquende wrote:


Fun as it is to watch those with the gleaming armour twist themselves into knots with their childish lies, I do feel the forum is immeasurably improved by not having to wade through their drivel. RunicFIN, I dub you a vacuous liar, more concerned with stirring up trouble than discussing the hobby, and more concerned with insulting people than trying to understand them. You are ignored.

I'd urge others to do so as well (if only so that his quoted posts don't keep appearing in otherwise interesting topics). Irrelevant trolls disappear quickly when there's nobody responding to them. It's sad, but it is only done for attention and validation.

Haven´t lied, nor am I in a knot ( infact you are, with you lot acting as paradoxical as possible with not requiring proof from MWHistorian but requiring from anyone else, at any given time. ) So yeah, you just made yourself look even more unlogical and paradoxical.

How many times do I have to give my evidence? (Not proof. Only children and Sith deal in absolutes.) Just because you didn't like my evidence doesn't mean I didn't give it. So, go ahead and give your evidence, or PM Musashi like you said you would. Do something besides lie and avoid answering to your own statements.

But perhaps it is time to get back on track before the MOD's shut this down. RunicFin, if you have evidence, let's continue this on PM.

Noir wrote:

RunicFIN wrote:

Being correct about it is being correct about it, and the doomsayers being wrong. And maybe you should take into consideration it might not be a matter of being petty but something else entirely.

Yup, Not child like at all. LOL. Going to make more popcorn right now keep it up.

Treating being correct as being correct is childlike to you? I´ll prepare mine as I await your explanation on this.

So wait, you don't actually have any information about the sales?

It all hinges on the report no one has information on that will appear in 6 weeks? Am I understanding you correctly?

Or do you have secret insider information you can't share?

 MWHistorian wrote:

How many times do I have to give my evidence? (Not proof. Only children and Sith deal in absolutes.) Just because you didn't like my evidence doesn't mean I didn't give it.

I said I´d give them the reason to why I know what will happen, not a document. I will PM the cause, not the result.

As to your evidence, which is "behaviour of the past" I´ll just roll with the same thing, I will then have given evidence whether you like it or not, just as MWHistorian does now:

My evidence is behaviour of the past- GW has risen from a sales low before, therefore it can and will happen again. Behaviour of the past.

Now you shall treat my evidence as equally satisfying as MWHistorians, for it is the absolutely same thing. If you do not, you are automatically oxymoronic, uncreditable, as it directly translates to giving different people different priviledges in this discussion blatantly based on your whim.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Do something besides lie and avoid answering to your own statements.

Really? You talk about lying and avoiding answering your own questions?You dodged my request for proof 3 times. You included deliberate/accidental misinterpretation in your posts previously, you also put words in my mouth and said I had said things I never did. You should look in the mirror before advising others about negative behaviour ( and I haven´t lied, so again you just made something up. ) Infact I think you might be the most malicious poster in this thread, as your sole purpose is to confuse the discussion and it´s participants by twisting peoples words and deliberately misinterpreting them, and dodging questions yourself, while blaming the same behaviour on others. Then demanding for proof/evidence and avoiding giving your own.

 RunicFIN wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

How many times do I have to give my evidence? (Not proof. Only children and Sith deal in absolutes.) Just because you didn't like my evidence doesn't mean I didn't give it.

I said I´d give them the reason to why I know what will happen, not a document. I will PM the cause, not the result.

As to your evidence, which is "behaviour of the past" I´ll just roll with the same thing, I will then have given evidence whether you like it or not, just as MWHistorian does now:

My evidence is behaviour of the past- GW has risen from a sales low before, therefore it can and will happen again. Behaviour of the past.

Now you shall treat my evidence as equally satisfying as MWHistorians, for it is the absolutely same thing. If you do not, you are automatically oxymoronic, uncreditable, as it directly translates to giving different people different priviledges in this discussion blatantly based on your whim.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Do something besides lie and avoid answering to your own statements.

Really? You talk about lying and avoiding answering your own questions? You dodged my request for proof 3 times. You included deliberate/accidental misinterpretation in your posts previously, you also put words in my mouth and said I had said things I never did. You should look in the mirror before advicing others about negative behaviour ( and I haven´t lied, so again you just made something up. )

You're now on ignore.

RunicFIN your high jacking another thread..

 RunicFIN wrote:

You're now on ignore.

Thank god, finally you won´t be there to twist comments so even other users get confused aswell, and I won´t constantly have to waste time clearing up what you can't comprehend/deliberately comprehend as something else.

 Chute82 wrote:
RunicFIN your high jacking another thread..

I don´t mean to, and despite how you put it I actually talked about the topic originally. It takes two to tango ( in this case I´d say about 7. ) Then again, this thread had run it´s course around 7 pages ago.

Runic, I suggest you read your own posts before you accuse someone else of being malicious.

 Blacksails wrote:
Runic, I suggest you read your own posts before you accuse someone else of being malicious.

What would you describe deliberately misinterpreting other peoples posts, making paradoxical demands and unpolite remarks, putting words in someones mouth so that even other discussion participants ( 3rd party ) get confused and constantly being on the offensive? I can use whatever word you make up for said behaviour aslong as I find it fitting, if malicious doesn´t work. Not my first language this english.

My point is that you are as guilty of being rude as you're claiming some other posters are.

In other words, don't expect others to play nice if you're not willing to extend the same courtesy.

Your English is fine; certainly a hell of a lot better than my Finnish.

 Blacksails wrote:
My point is that you are as guilty of being rude as you're claiming some other posters are.

That I will not deny. But I didn´t talk in a manner that I would be any better when it comes that. There´s a Finnish saying: "The forest answers the way you shout into it." Refers to echo, applies to this exactly.

Right, but it goes both ways.

If you're fine being insulted and having posters treat you poorly, then continue treating other posters poorly. You may not make many friends that way, but who am I to judge.

He's probably counting on the royalties from that new computer game that's been released to prop up the total number of the figures. If you remove outside revenue (like black library, games like dawn of war, space marine, basically anything not under the 'core' gw company) then games workshop has been having problems with their core business for longer than the last financial report. Having healthy 'additional' revenue is good, but not when it's needed to hide the problems with a rotting core business (which is stated in many places to revolve around the sale of toy soldiers).

I'd give my left nut for a tyranid testicle. Wait. No i wouldn't.

I would hi wouldn't recommend GW to someone for the simple fact that I can't think of any reason I would recommend it.

 Blacksails wrote:
Right, but it goes both ways.

If you're fine being insulted and having posters treat you poorly, then continue treating other posters poorly. You may not make many friends that way, but who am I to judge.

I wasn´t the first one to result to such antics, I can therefore assume the other side isn´t looking for friends either. It doesn´t pay off too well, that´s all.

RunicFIN wrote:

Spoiler:

 Riquende wrote:
I doubt I could make you laugh, you clearly don't understand anything I say. I haven't referred to MWHistorian's claim at all. If he made that claim, he would have to provide proof.

Very well then, I take back what I said when it comes to you Riquende. That´s all I wanted to hear from you. I don´t have time to search for his post right now ( see below ) but use the search function, put MWHistorians username in as a requirement and search for the words "you´re mistaken" or "you are mistaken" - it should show up as the first result.

In any case, keep believing guys. I´m sure you´re correct regarding GW going down and a single sales report + a chairmans preamble being ultimate evidence of a large companys doom, with said company having a history of over 20 years and being the most successfull in their field. I´ll visit the discussion thread after the report to see what possible excuses you have come up with to try and sweep being incorrect under the rug to safe face. I´m guessing "this means nothing" ( which is what I am now saying, but you refuse to accept ) is one, someone will probably blame it on christmas and people buying presents.

Also, try to work on your skills regarding holding coherent protocol, demanding proof of others and "protecting one of your own" by just blatantly stating he doesn´t need to provide any proof for his equally big claims just sweeps any credibility whatsoever from under your feet.

I am now in a hurry to enjoy an enjoyable game or two of Warhammer 40,000, the most widespread miniaturegame on the planet, produced by the most successfful wargaming company in existence, so we´ll continue this discussion wherein you just come up with non-equal rules to others later. Ciao.

RunicFIN wrote:

Spoiler:

 Riquende wrote:
Thanks for your concession that you have no proof, nor even scant evidence that your claims are valid. Accepted.

"Concessed" to none of the things you say, as I am still infact right about the matter. You talk about logic yet you conclude things out of thin air. I take back taking back you making me laugh, as you completely lack any logic yourself.

 Riquende wrote:


Fun as it is to watch those with the gleaming armour twist themselves into knots with their childish lies, I do feel the forum is immeasurably improved by not having to wade through their drivel. RunicFIN, I dub you a vacuous liar, more concerned with stirring up trouble than discussing the hobby, and more concerned with insulting people than trying to understand them. You are ignored.

I'd urge others to do so as well (if only so that his quoted posts don't keep appearing in otherwise interesting topics). Irrelevant trolls disappear quickly when there's nobody responding to them. It's sad, but it is only done for attention and validation.

Haven´t lied, nor am I in a knot ( infact you are, with you lot acting as paradoxical as possible with not requiring proof from MWHistorian but requiring from anyone else, at any given time. ) So yeah, you just made yourself look even more unlogical and paradoxical. Next to this, regarding the topic of GW going down/whatever the tinfoils have made up for today - I am correct, you are not. Have fun accepting that.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I'm still waiting on that PM you promised Rubric....

Like I stated to Musashi, I will send it to you the very day the report hits. For reasons other than pettiness I cannot do it now.

39 minutes between posts.

Fastest game of 40K ever. Or you just making that up too?

This is basically a quintessential Burden of Proof fallacy. RunicFIN, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove your statements, not on others to disprove them. You made the claim, ergo you need to show proof to support it. Others have shown the financial reports showing that GW sales are declining, if you feel contrary you need to show something backing it up.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof