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Hi guys, got myself a whole list of newbie questions. Not sure if this is the right place to post it as I'm kind of mulling over several topics at once, but ultimately it is working out an army list.

So first up, after a hiatus from GW in general, I am really tempted to start a Warriors of Chaos army and get back into the game. Now I started with Fantasy right at the very start of 6th and loved it, although I was just a teenager and never really mastered the game, then played 40k right up until 6th came out. I haven't really got any love left in me for 40k. It'll always be a great setting but I haven't been a fan of a lot of the changes going back all the way to fourth addition, whereas Fantasy really appeals to me. I love the diversity of races, the lack of emphasis on one faction (Imperium), and how most armies table top style really seem to represent their background material.

So I've just finished reading through the BRB and really like the look of the game as it stands right now. Considered both Dark Elves and WOC but I think I am sold on Chaos mainly due to the cheap start up costs and how much I love the models. Now even being out of the game, I am a total fluff junkie, so through dakka and sporadically buying army books over the years, I have a good knowledge of the background for most factions and would really like to do a thematic army that is fun to play but also can be somewhat competitive.

After reading the WOC book I have noticed that, as in 40k, there is no more undivided mark. Which brings up my first question; How to represent an Undivided warband, making use of a variety of marks without being too "gamey." Basically I already have an idea of how I would paint them. I've never been a big fan of "Colour coded Chaos" so I want the marked units to be subtle differences, ie; Slightly rusted edges of Nurgle weapons and armour with dirty unkempt robes, Blood spatter on the Khorne units, lightning effects on the Tzeentch guys and scars and tattoos for the Slaaneshi stuff. Aside from that, it would be a fairly uniformed army of black, metals and browns.
If I can't make this feasible then maybe I will have to consider the mono god route, I would just like to give myself as many options as possible, not having to forgo units due to their allegiance. I did this with 4th ed CSM and found it extremely boring to play due to having to impose so many restrictions to keep my Alpha Legion fluffy.

So here is the list I want to start with;

Heroes

Festus-190pts (With the CW)

Core

24 Warriors with Mark of Nurgle, Banner of Swiftness, shields and halberds. Full command. 520 pts

Chariot with mark of Khorne- 120

Chariot with mark of Khorne- 120

5 Warhounds- 30

5 Warhounds- 30

5 Marauder Horsemen with Mark of Slaanesh, musician, flails- 95

Special

5 Chaos Knights with Mark of Tzeentch, ensorcelled weapons Full Command-255 (I know Tzeentch isn't optimal but I wanted to represent all gods at least once in the list)

Gorebeast Chariot with Mark of Nurgle-140

1500

Now the biggest problem I am having is that to justify it being an Undivided host, I want my General and BSB to be unmarked. However at such a small points level it seems that Festus works much better in my list than a generic Champion and looks like a lot of fun, but I'm worried that casual players (Which I consider myself) will consider this too cheesey. Is there a way I can get a decent custom Champion in there instead?

Lastly, two of the main things I need help with rules wise are: Kitting out characters, what makes a useful magic item etc. And Magic, specifically how to know which lore to pick. I'm aware that if I go with Festus then he can only take Nurgle, but if I expand it/swap him out, then I have literally no idea how to decide which magic lores give the best synergy with an army.

I know it's a long rambling post, but any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Anyone?

Welcome back to Warhammer! It is definitely a good time to be playing.

I like the idea of subtle conversions and paint schemes to represent different marks. I also hate the whole, these guys are all blue, these guys are all red, thing.

Your list isn't "cheesy", at least not by interweb standards. Festus is not a choice you see very often though he isn't terrible. His main problem is that level 2 nurgle doesn't guarantee you the spells you need. There's quite a few subpar spells in Nurgle mixed in among the winners like CotL. The rest of the list is good. Most of the cheese you see comes from unkillable characters and monster mash lists.

One thing I would recommend is using MoS instead of Khorne on your chariots. You want the option to flee and restrain pursuit with them, which you cannot do while frenzied. Nurgle is also good on them, to make them more survivable in combat.

Some good lores you see with chaos are level 4 MoN with lore of death or nurgle, level 1 or 2 fire or death scroll/skull caddy, level 4 demon prince with death or slaanesh, and level 4 sorcerer lord on disc with Tzeentch. Shadow is nice on anyone, as well. Which you can take unmarked, I believe.

Unmarked BSB is fine too, though I hightly recommend Nurgle. Plus it would fit in nicely with your big block of warriors.

Thanks for the feedback!

Hmm okay, I think I was swayed by Festus giving regen to the Nurgle warriors, but is it better to have a stronger presence in the Magic phase?

Interesting point on the Chariots, I think I may start with a MoS and a MoN and see which one works for me. Is a Lvl 4 Sorc feasible at such a low points level or should I just stick to a Level 2 until I push my points limit higher? Honestly I think the hardest thing with an elite army is trying to cram in everything I want to try.

Thanks for the advice on the lores, is there a particular reason that those lores work so with the army? Is it to make up for any shortcomings that WoC have as an army, or just universally good lores?

At 1500 points a level 2 is fine. A lot of the time I don't even bother to take casters at 1500. That being said, you still get 2d6 winds of magic dice so a level 4 will make better use of the magic phase.

I say start off using Festus and see how he works for you.

Tzeentch and fireball are good at making up for shortcomings, yeah, due to lack of shooting. The other lores are just generally powerful (death) and go well with a close combat army (shadow, nurgle). Slaanesh is good because of the two spells that give your enemy random movement d6. Metal can be alright too, depending on your local meta.

A lvl 2 with chaos familiar is a good choice for such point limits, you don't have to spend as much on ascending him to a sorcerer lord and you get the extra spell and improve your chances of channeling so that you can defend better on the magic phase.

On your list i'd probably drop the marauders and festus and go with a BSB and a lvl 2 vanilla sorc with the familiar and dispell scroll. You wont be able to take the lore of the gods but, shadow, death, fire and metal are pretty solid. I usually tun shadow or death, sometimes metal when facing other warriors, dwarves or steam tanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to represent of 4 gods on a 1500 list and go with a markless general/character I'd probably go with:

Heroes:

Sorcerer - lvl2, chaos familiar, charmed shield, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon
Hero - BSB, shield, dragonhelm, chalice of chaos

Core:

15 Chaos Warriors - MoN, FC, Halberds, Shields, Banner of Eternal Flame
15 Chaos Warriors - MoT, FC, Shields, Blasted Standard
Chariot of Slaanesh
Chariot of Slaanesh
5 Warhounds
5 Warhounds

Rare:
3x Skullcrushers - Musician, Standard bearer, ensorcelled weapons

Total: 1497

The hero and sorc might be a little weak for WoC standards but against other races the basic stats are pretty good so at 1500 they should hold their ground.

Fluffwise wanting your heroes to be undivided this would be a good way to go I guess, the sorcerer can access any of the non-god lords depending on what you will be facing, the familiar and dispel scroll should give you some good magic defense and the charmed shield will help with some miscasts and at the same time make him a 3+sv model no ward thou :\, I'd stick him to the nurgle warriors so that he confers the ironcurse to the unit and allow them to at least try to ward them from warmachines since the tzeentch ones alrdy have 6 ward and with the blasted standard warmachines shouldn't aim at them

The BSB gets a 2+sv, a nice ward against flaming attacks and the chalice for whenever you face something that can destroy your character in close combat, pray the gods for a 6, and if you don't get it the other results will hopefully help you win any challenge. Also you get parry save with this one. I'd put this one with the tz warriors

The warriors are well... warriors, nurgle with halberds is a classic, shields and the ironcurse will help them survive until they get into close combat and the flaming banner is always nice to kill those regen beasts or magically enhanced ogres. The tzeentch ones should cross the battlefield without much trouble and work as an anvil for the halberds and crushers to hit the enemy units. Use them with a front of 5, six is the ideal i guess but you also want to have some support ranks so 3x5 beats 2x6

Chariots of slaanesh only to accomplish the 4 gods challenge, they should roam near the warriors and support them

2 warhounds to play a little with the battlefield

And finally the skull crushers, probably the only unit worth of MoK, they hit hard, sv great and are pretty fast.

I believe the chaos familiar and dispel scroll are both arcane items, so you cannot take both. Chalice is risky on a BSB. You have a 1/6 chance of getting yourself down to 1 wound and 1/6 chance to leave your unit in the middle of combat, albeit as a daemon prince. The in between buffs are nice, but I think it's better suited on a less important hero.

I also don't think you need to shoehorn in more powerful units over perfectly good units. Skullcrushers are better in many ways but Tzeentch chaos Knights are still great, especially with the blasted standard. Marauder horseman with Khorne are great at making devastating charges into enemy's flanks, but are a tad expensive for often drawing a small amount of enemy shooting or magic and being wiped out. But it's a fun unit to use.

Warptide wrote:
I believe the chaos familiar and dispel scroll are both arcane items, so you cannot take both. Chalice is risky on a BSB. You have a 1/6 chance of getting yourself down to 1 wound and 1/6 chance to leave your unit in the middle of combat, albeit as a daemon prince. The in between buffs are nice, but I think it's better suited on a less important hero.

I also don't think you need to shoehorn in more powerful units over perfectly good units. Skullcrushers are better in many ways but Tzeentch chaos Knights are still great, especially with the blasted standard. Marauder horseman with Khorne are great at making devastating charges into enemy's flanks, but are a tad expensive for often drawing a small amount of enemy shooting or magic and being wiped out. But it's a fun unit to use.

You are right on the familiar, forgot the gits could also be items instead of just plain buffs. And yeah, the chalice might be a gamble but that's why you should use it when facing something that will obliterate you in combat, like an ogre lord, or a decked chaos lord you will be death either way, the ward/regen could improve your odds, or ASF allow you to make some dmg before going down with the rerolls.

Blastes standard knights are nice but for a unit of 5 I think they get pretty expensive.

I think at least for early games I am going to go with the Knights over Crushers. I just really love the Knights models too much to leave them out. I will definitely consider adding SCs in my higher point lists in the future.

Okay so with the advice you guys have given, I think I am going to go for:

Level 2 Sorc with scroll, charmed shield, Iron Curse-180

Exalted Champion BSB with Enchanted shield and Dragonhelm 150

Core
19 Warriors with Mark of Nurgle, Banner of Swiftness, shields and halberds. Full command. 420

Chariot with mark of Slaanesh- 115

Chariot with mark of Slaanesh- 115

5 Warhounds- 30

5 Warhounds- 30

5 Warhounds-30


Special

5 Chaos Knights with Mark of Tzeentch, ensorcelled weapons Full Command, Blasted Standard-290

Gorebeast Chariot with Mark of Khorne-140

Should come out at exactly 1500

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
Exalted Champion BSB with Enchanted shield and Dragonhelm 150

Sadly this lad can only have one piece of magic armor, so not both the e.shield + d.helm. How about picking up the Scaled Skin mutation? Then a regular shield to bring him to 1+ save, along with a 6+ parry save on the side! And the e.shield can go to the sorcerer-general.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
Exalted Champion BSB with Enchanted shield and Dragonhelm 150

Sadly this lad can only have one piece of magic armor, so not both the e.shield + d.helm. How about picking up the Scaled Skin mutation? Then a regular shield to bring him to 1+ save, along with a 6+ parry save on the side! And the e.shield can go to the sorcerer-general.

- Salvage

Ah okay, thanks for pointing that out, I think I will go for the scaled skin instead then.

Thanks everyone. I'll see how I get on with this lot...better get buying!